Tories are losing the battle over class

[Tangled up in Blue]

interesting, I'm "working class" who'd not vote for Labour, and you're presumably "middle class" who'd not vote for Tories...

Class is of course always subjective.Probably in terms of income alone I would be defined as working class rather than middle class.I have no problem with that.:)

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

What if a Tory party came into an election with a manifesto that was 100% in line with everything you agreed with, yet Labour/Liberals didn't?

If the Tories came out with a manifesto that came out with commitments to maintain current levels of spending on Education, the NHS,re-nationalise the railways, pull British troops out of Afghanistan etc then I'd certainly consider voting for them.
But I suspect it aint gonna happen.:soapbox:

 

[canveyshrimper]

If the Tories came out with a manifesto that came out with commitments to maintain current levels of spending on Education, the NHS,re-nationalise the railways, pull British troops out of Afghanistan etc then I'd certainly consider voting for them.
But I suspect it aint gonna happen.:soapbox:

I think they have said they will maintain current spending on Education & the NHS, but it would be good to see what this money is actually spent on rather than the New Labour way of throwing money at the problem. And FWIW I doubt if you'll see a commitment for 3 & 4.

 

[Bob Cratchitt]

If the Tories came out with a manifesto that came out with commitments to maintain current levels of spending on Education, the NHS,re-nationalise the railways, pull British troops out of Afghanistan etc then I'd certainly consider voting for them.
But I suspect it aint gonna happen.:soapbox:

Why should any of that bother when you do not live on these shores?

I am interested in why the need for re-nationalise the railways? As I can only speak from experience which is since privatisation my own commuter railway which i use 5 days a week has improved beyond recognition. I sit on great trains enjoying a service that was unthinkable back in the days of the misery line. when I want to travel the country I can get cheap tickets such as £14 return to Stockport.

These two points are not something I ever experienced with the Nationalised Railways.

Also my belief for the NHS and Education it should not be just on the amount spent but the quality of the service provided, ensure that money is given to the people and equipment that matter not just a load of administrators who to try to ensure targets are set and met.

Regarding the troops, Afghanistan is a different kettle of fish to the Iraq conflict, which is backed up by the number of countries that are participating in trying to resolve the Afghanistan situation. Or have you put that because you could not type Iraq? Sometimes we can not just sit back and put our heads in the sand.

 

[Rob Noxious]

Why should any of that bother when you do not live on these shores?

Regarding the troops, Afghanistan is a different kettle of fish to the Iraq conflict, which is backed up by the number of countries that are participating in trying to resolve the Afghanistan situation. Or have you put that because you could not type Iraq? Sometimes we can not just sit back and put our heads in the sand.

Duck and cover, Bob! :whistling:

 

[Rob Noxious]

You know, I am not sure if any of the parties really represent the 'working class' these days. I think Thatcher pulled off the coup of the last century by selling the dream of property-ownership to Council house tenants in '79, but that was probably the last great migration of 'the working-class vote' to any one party. And before anyone mentions the BNP ... well, I suspect the BNP would claim that they represent their working class voters, but not all of the working class here would see that this predominantly white party represent them.

 

[londonblue]

Not really, the party ahead in the polls is still winning the battle at that point in time.

I guess maths and statistics aren't your strong point then?

;)

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

And FWIW I doubt if you'll see a commitment for 3 & 4.

CS -I'm not daft enough to expect it either!;)

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

You know, I am not sure if any of the parties really represent the 'working class' these days. I think Thatcher pulled off the coup of the last century by selling the dream of property-ownership to Council house tenants in '79, but that was probably the last great migration of 'the working-class vote' to any one party. And before anyone mentions the BNP ... well, I suspect the BNP would claim that they represent their working class voters, but not all of the working class here would see that this predominantly white party represent them.

That's quite a sophisticated political analysis IMHO.

 

[Dick Bate's Protege]

But they've won my heart. Hoorah and God bless conservatism.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Why should any of that bother when you do not live on these shores?

I was born in the UK and am the proud holder of a British passport(issued in Madrid).Who knows I might want to come back to the UK to live someday.
(I very much doubt it but you never know).:)If I'd wanted to renounce my British citizenship I could have taken out Spanish nationality(by virtue of length of residence)or French nationality by virtue of my marriage to a French citizen.What's the point when we're all EU citizens anyway?

<I am interested in why the need for re-nationalise the railways?<

If you want to see an excellent railway system in operation I suggest you visit France or Spain,take a ride on their high speed trains, and then compare it to the travesty of a privatised railway system that now operates in the UK since the demise of BR.
Even the metro system in Barcelona is far superior to London's outdated and ridiculously expensive Underground.



Also my belief for the NHS and Education it should not be just on the amount spent but the quality of the service provided,

Agreed.

<Regarding the troops, Afghanistan is a different kettle of fish to the Iraq conflict, which is backed up by the number of countries that are participating in trying to resolve the Afghanistan situation. Or have you put that because you could not type Iraq? Sometimes we can not just sit back and put our heads in the sand.

<

Iraq was and is an illegal war but we and more importantly the Americans have already indicated when troops will be pulled out.
IMO the invasion of Afghanistan was justified after 9/11 but the time for that justification has long gone.
It hasn't produced results(apart from the London bombings)nor will it.
BTW I think most people would accept that Iraq is rather easier to spell than Afghanistan.:)

 

[Bob Cratchitt]

IMO the invasion of Afghanistan was justified after 9/11 but the time for that justification has long gone.

Unfortunately those bloody johnny foreigners just will not stick to a timetable, whilst we thought they had decided to give up the ghost, they decided a few years back to try to attack us again. It is just not cricket.

 

[Bob Cratchitt]

If you want to see an excellent railway system in operation I suggest you visit France or Spain,take a ride on their high speed trains, and then compare it to the travesty of a privatised railway system that now operates in the UK since the demise of BR.
Even the metro system in Barcelona is far superior to London's outdated and ridiculously expensive Underground.

You will be pleased to know that I have travelled on the both rail systems and in fact a few other countries as well, so my judgement is based on experience.

If you going to look at railways, surely you should have mentioned the Swiss Railway, renowned across the world for it's timekeeping. Infact how great would it be, if one of those privatised railways in the UK could replicate such a feat.

Anyway do not blame the state of the railways on privatisation, it is goes back further than that, I would suggest you look to the 60's and 70's for the complete mis-management of our railway infrastructure, ,of course the privitisation route was totally faultless but I do feel that it is getting there and with tweaking it could provide the country with the system we need.

After all they got it right on my line why can this not be replicated elsewhere?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

You will be pleased to know that I have travelled on the both rail systems and in fact a few other countries as well, so my judgement is based on experience.


Glad to hear it.The reason I mentioned Spain and France was that these are two European countries I often travel around in by train on a fairly regular basis.

If you going to look at railways, surely you should have mentioned the Swiss Railway, renowned across the world for it's timekeeping. Infact how great would it be, if one of those privatised railways in the UK could replicate such a feat.

Like you I've also travelled in Switzerland by train.While I agree about punctuality, their trains are horifically expensive -I still remember a family trip to the Jungfrau and its exorbitant cost.BTW we have Swiss friends(currently working in the US)who agree on this point.

<Anyway do not blame the state of the railways on privatisation, it is goes back further than that, I would suggest you look to the 60's and 70's for the complete mis-management of our railway infrastructure, ,of course the privitisation route was totally faultless but I do feel that it is getting there and with tweaking it could provide the country with the system we need.<

While I would agree that the problem of the railways in the UK predates privatisation, there's no doubt in my mind(or in that of many other commentators),that these problems have been exacerbated since John Major's botched privatisation.One line I've used regularly both before and after privatisation is the Great Westen service to Cornwall.There's no doubt that the service on this particular line has deteriorated rapidly since privatisation to the extent that many people I know personally no longer use what was an excellent service.

After all they got it right on my line why can this not be replicated elsewhere?

You don't specify what line you use.I'm assuming it's C2C?
If so, not many regular commuters that I know, would regard it as an example of successful privatisation.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Unfortunately those bloody johnny foreigners just will not stick to a timetable, whilst we thought they had decided to give up the ghost, they decided a few years back to try to attack us again. It is just not cricket.

Unfortunately, they won't stick to Obama's current big surge(cf Bush in Iraq) timetable either.
Expect a lull in combat now until after the 2011 pullback/out of troops.
After all,this is what guerrilla warfare is all about(cf Vietnam -Kennedy/Johnson/Nixon).

 

[canveyshrimper]

You don't specify what line you use.I'm assuming it's C2C?
If so, not many regular commuters that I know, would regard it as an example of successful privatisation.

The old LTS (London/Tilbury/Southend) franchise which was taken over by c2c was abysmal, and c2c up to about the end of 2002 were absolutely diabolical. However they have turned the services around completely, the new rolling stock is generally clean, comfortable and in the main pretty reliable. Punctuality is excellent, and communications have improved no end (although IMO they could still improve), there's been improvements to a lot of stations, and I'd say that c2c are a shining light for privatisation. And I say that as one who had an ongoing battle with c2c in the early 2000's and my battles were featured a lot in the Echo at the time.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Railway privatisation is all smoke and mirrors. As I've said before NR still recieves a MASSIVE handout from the Government - does any other private company recieve pulbic millions? (well apart from the banks obviously). This is far more than BR ever did!

Vast amount of money is ****ed away EVERY day, employee relations are fractious to say the very least. Every single tax payer has given already rich people millions of pounds in the (barely legal) con that was privatisation. If the same money had been spent on the infrastructure under successive Labour & Tory governments in the 1970/80's we'd have a sparkling railway that was affordable.