Tilsons contacts. Does he have any?

[Tommy2holes]

What as apposed to foran the penalty king of the spl LOL

 

[loz]

What as apposed to foran the penalty king of the spl LOL

true enough. Still doesn't make Gray's record any better though.

 

[Tommy2holes]

Gray tries hard. And if he misses he tries and tries till he eventually scores. From what i have seen of the above the same cannot be said. Can you honestly say you would rather have paynter foran or harrold upfront instead of gray. Not a world beater , but better than some of the big signings we have made. Should offer better deals to players that deserved them.

 

[canveyshrimper]

Gray tries hard. And if he misses he tries and tries till he eventually scores. From what i have seen of the above the same cannot be said. Can you honestly say you would rather have paynter foran or harrold upfront instead of gray. Not a world beater , but better than some of the big signings we have made. Should offer better deals to players that deserved them.

By no means am I advocating Matt Harrold here (heaven forbid), but on the same premise as working his nuts off then he is the same as Gray in terms of ability & work ethic.

We will never know about Paynter as I am sure he will be on his bike soon enough, and with Foran his Maccaesque inability to stay on the pitch rather says it all.

 

[Firestorm]

Granted regarding gray, but how many league goals has gray scored compared to the likes of harold paynter foran per games. I would say that gray shades maybe the latter and destroys the first . QUOTE]

Gray Scored less Championship Goals than Harrold , Paynter and Foran last season, so I don't really think an accurate comparison can be made

 

[loz]

Gray tries hard. And if he misses he tries and tries till he eventually scores. From what i have seen of the above the same cannot be said. Can you honestly say you would rather have paynter foran or harrold upfront instead of gray. Not a world beater , but better than some of the big signings we have made. Should offer better deals to players that deserved them.

yes, I can honestly say that. Gray tried hard when he fancied it, but for large chunks of the promotion season in League One he looked like he couldn't give a monkeys. If we'd have kept him on for the Championship season, I don't see any reason to think he'd have made a difference against the better quality of defenders we were facing. Poor decision-making, poor positioning and work off the ball... no thanks, he can run fast but would have just been run into the corners constantly. I suspect we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one though.

One thing however- if your defence of Gray is that he 'tries hard', couldn't the same be said about Matt Harrold? clearly not the world's best footballer, but I've never seen a reason to critique his workrate.

 

[Tommy2holes]

Yeah i see what you mean but i could get on the pitch and work hard for 90 mins doesnt make me the same as harrold. Gray scored goals matt harold will never score goals. Thats the difference between the two.

 

[loz]

Gray's last season in League 1- 11 goals
Harrold's last season in League 1- 9 goals

Gray playing for a team that made the playoff's, Harrold for a team that finished 15th. not that I'm trying to argue for Matt, I just don't think their records are that different.

 

[Beefy]

Yeah i see what you mean but i could get on the pitch and work hard for 90 mins doesnt make me the same as harrold. Gray scored goals matt harold will never score goals. Thats the difference between the two.

Ok... lets put that to the test.

Wayne Gray last season played 46 games for Yeovil scoring 11 goals. Several of which were penalties.

Matt Harrold the season before in an inferior Yeovil side played 42 games for Yeovil scoring 9 goals. A fairly comparable record considering the pens and that Yeovil made the Play-Offs last season.

EDIT - DAMN YOU LOZ!

 

[Beefy]

As for Wayne's effort... well it was fine when things were going wll but as soon as Tilly made clear that Eastwood & Goater were his first choice partnership he gave up. His "performances" in the last six months at Roots Hall were lackluster to say the least (including a shameful cameo at Bournemouth in which he didn't once break out of a stroll in 15 minutes on the pitch). It's hardly surprising that we didn't give him the big payrise that he was expecting.

 

[sufcintheprem]

Granted regarding gray, but how many league goals has gray scored compared to the likes of harold paynter foran per games. I would say that gray shades maybe the latter and destroys the first .

already illustrated that there's little between them

Gray did not walk away he was only offered a one year deal and chose the job security of going to yeovil, It was the same with benno he also wanted to stay but wanted a two year deal. Both players didnt simply walk away as suggested.

They were offered one year contracts. If Tilson and Brush mismanaged with Guttridge and Ricketts, how on earth could Gray and Bentley not see the opportunity there? With Goater retiring, we had Lawson and that was about it to play alongside Eastwood. That is a clear lack of ambition and walking away.

All i am saying is that out of all our strikers mcdonald is the only one who got more than ten league goals last year. I know it was in the conference , but freddy went straight into the team from the ryman premier.

Yeah, this doesn't really work. Fred is the exception not the rule. Seriously, how many non-league strikers could make it at League One level straight away?

I would say that Easter of wycombe could be ours for 4-600k . He is a class player , the sort of player that takes a midtable team and makes them a play off team the kind the we signed from grays not so long ago.

Probably would be good to see but how much would a 500k player want in wages?

Promotion gaurantees atleast 1.5 million in revenue and tv.

I doubt this hugely but we won't know until we see the accounts. Even then we'd have to strip out any cup game revenue because we might have achieved that if we'd stayed down.

Our crowds are excellent for this level...

Actually, they're only decent. Leeds, Forest, Swansea, Tranmere and Huddersfield all attracted more this season and we couldn't even sell out a faux-derby with Orient

...and if we want to create something long term at the football club then some money needs spending and a bit of ambition needs showing, otherwise we will become static for a few years and support will dwindle back to gates of 5000.

I'm inclined to agree but, as everyone is quick to point out, Tilson spent a reasonable amount on several players last season for little return. Maybe he wants to give these signings a chance.

A few comments above

 

[seany t]

As for Wayne's effort... well it was fine when things were going wll but as soon as Tilly made clear that Eastwood & Goater were his first choice partnership he gave up. His "performances" in the last six months at Roots Hall were lackluster to say the least (including a shameful cameo at Bournemouth in which he didn't once break out of a stroll in 15 minutes on the pitch). It's hardly surprising that we didn't give him the big payrise that he was expecting.

Gray was ****. Very fast supposedly but had the reactions of a tortoise and, when he did get to the ball, forgot to often take it with him. Scored one great goal from what I remember but would be far worse than anyone we now have I'd hazard.

He was however annoyingly good at scoring goals in front of a couple of mates I'd drag along to games just to prove that I know nothing about football. Like against Bristol City for example...

 

[Suffolk Blue]

I'm sure some of these points have been answered many times over the last few weeks but here goes again:

1) We don't have £1.5million to spend on a transfer fee, or anything close to it. If we were to spend all of the Freddy cash on one player that would give us about £500k to spend on a transfer fee plus signing-on fees, bonuses, wages etc.
2) Tilly's howlers! They're far from the worst players ever to wear a Southend shirt. I wouldn't play Harrold up front with Bradbury but I can see him causing some teams problems in this division and I'm sure Tilly thinks he'll improve with age.
3) Bringing players in isn't as cut and dried as many seem to believe. A new signing has to be happy with the finances on offer, but you also have to keep the rest of the squad happy so they don't all get the hump when they find out how much New Guy is on. If New Guy is an experienced, top-quality player then you have to convince him that he's likely to get into the first team regularly, but you also have to keep the rest of the squad happy so they don't all get the hump when they find out New Guy is going straight into the team in their place.
4) By and large (Freddy aside obviously) I've not been disappointed to see the players who've gone leave. Bentley could have stayed, but I don't know who I'd play him ahead of in midfield. Gray was lightening fast but he had a woeful first touch and a terrible finish, teamed with a poor tactical awareness. He didn't exactly set the world alight last year in League 1, nor did he impress me at all when we played Orient last week. Kightly was obviously a very good prospect but I'm not sure he'd ever have developed properly under Tilly.
5) We have 6 or 7 forwards on our books at the moment. I happen to believe that MacDonald could actually be a very decent player once he gets some match time under his belt. Tilly obviously wants to blood him gradually as he has a lot of players before him; Foran has shown that he has the talent; in pre-season he looked to be applying it too. If he hadn't picked up the red card at Crawley I would have expected to see him at least on the bench. We've had high hopes of Hooper but he seems to be out of sorts at the moment. If Tilly can find any player (not just a forward) who is available or could be tempted away from his current club, who is much better than we have, who we can afford, who want's to join us, and who won't upset the dressing room etc. etc. then I'm sure he'll try his hardest to get him.

 

[Suffolk Blue]

... oh and I forgot to answer the question posed at the beginnng of the thread.

Tilly has contacts in non-league through playing and coaching, in the lower divisions of the league through his playhing days, across the country with regard to young and upcoming players through his involvement in the England U21 set-up.

He obviously has some knowledge of the Scottish teams too as evidenced from his dealings with Motherwell.

In fact I think the list of signings detailed earlier in this thread shows the extent of his contacts.

I think though that you was alluding to the lack of Premier League loanees we have had compared with other clubs. I don't think its necessarily a Contact issue, but rather a case of what sort of player do we need to loan and what can we offer the player and his current club.

I don't know exactly how it operates but I suspect there is some financial aspect to the loan, and/or development opportunity for the player. All of which means we need to spend money and probably be able to guarante a first team place to any potential loanee. And probably more importantly we need to be offering more than other clubs.

Col Ewe are reputedly spending money like nobody's business and can offer CCC level football and a decent stadium and crowd every other week or so. We are definitely careful with our cash (despite what people believe we spend on players and wages etc.), we are now in L1 with only a handful of decent crowds and venues, and unless we was loaning in a real talent (like Gilbert will be), we wouldn't even play him ahead of the encumbents.

 

[Tommy2holes]

Fair post suffolk blue. Just feel like we had the chance to push on and become a bottom half /mid table championship team and now we seem to be edging away from that goal by showing a lack of ambition. Maybe when we get the final go ahead for the ground ,we will be more of a prospect.