Tilson Brush & Martin

[HudsonNo1]

I think saying that "they have been a victim of their own success" sums up why we all feel so bad and some tend to call for the managment teams head when he hit a bad run of form.
Back when we was finishing 17th in league two and struggling to remain in league football all together we would have given anything to be in the position we are now.

Im actually looking forward to maybe having a mid table "boring" season for once, not having to fight relegation, or having to worry weither or not we are in the play-offs is maybe a blessing in disguise in order to build a team for a real challenge withen the next two seasons.

 

[C'mon you Shrimpers]

I've told you a million times not to exaggerate.

Can't agree with anything you say. Can I just check this out this squad is only fractionally better than the squad going down to conference when Tilly took over????? And IIRC Freedman is a recent signing and has made the squad "far worse"?????
Please don't end a sentence with "fact" which it isn't. It's as bad as end of.

 

[Somerset Ex-TTB]

Totally agree, however after the initial success that Tilly, Brush and Martin have had, the club seems to be currently going backwards, and not forwards or even standing still.

The squad is probably as weak as it ever has been since Tilly took over, if you look at depth as well as the starting XI, and this is their fault.

People on here keep harping back to the days of finishing 17th in League 2, and how bad things were. I think we must all except that as well as overachieving for a club of our size recently, under Little, Martin, Newman etc. we were seriously underachieving.

The club if based on size, should of been challenging in League 2 or bottom half of League 1 when Tilly took over. However the over achievement in the past few years has grown the club to the point where we would expect to be challenging at the top of League 1.

You only have to look at the other clubs in the division, and their attendances etc. Only Leicester, Leeds, Huddersfield and MK Dons are significantly higer, and you can add Peterbourogh into the mix due to thier owner, but there are plenty of other clubs such as Millwall, Scunthorpe and Oldham that we should be competing with.

There aren't any clubs below us with bigger gates. (except Bradford in League 2)

I am sure that if this is a temporary blip as Tilly rebuilds for next season, then everything will be rosy with the new ground happening (eventually).

If, however this current slump continues, and we don't manage to finish much above mid table in league one, or even worse get dragged into a relgation fight, then questions must be asked, as that would be a serious underachievement for our size of club.

 

[Sean 2]

Tilson's problem has been Barnard AND Freedman getting injured at the same time for a lengthy spell in the crucial first half of the season.Then when we get lucky with another striker in Laurent the idiot goes and gets himself sent off,like last season about the same time with Clarke when the team were doing well before X-mas then dropping like a stone.

This league has much mediocrity about it in the standard of play,but a good regular striker will see the team push up the table.
I think Tilly done really well in getting two superb strikers and three back-up strikers,but like i say the two good uns need to play just as Fred and the Goat needed to that year.
We don't even need to start on about the defence as they are in and out with their form so in keeping with the mediocre tag,but by jolly if our main strikeforce are playing then we're worth watching.

Keep up the good work T&B,we can pull this off yet.

 

[effy67]

Agree with shrimp and two veg there is n't too much wrong with the team that Freedman and Barnard can't put right. For the 20 mins. or so Freedman played on Sat. i thought we looked a much better team because Dougie was encouraging people, bringing them into the game, telling them what to do, where to go etc etc. Now you could argue our players should know all this but then that's another story. As long as Freedman and Barnard stay fit then we will be fine and should start moving up the table soon.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Agree with shrimp and two veg there is n't too much wrong with the team that Freedman and Barnard can't put right. For the 20 mins. or so Freedman played on Sat. i thought we looked a much better team because Dougie was encouraging people, bringing them into the game, telling them what to do, where to go etc etc. Now you could argue our players should know all this but then that's another story. As long as Freedman and Barnard stay fit then we will be fine and should start moving up the table soon.

A bit of leadership on the field is what's needed, much as he is an excellent ambassador for the club, I'm not sure Adam's up to the on the field stuff.

 

[effy67]

I sort of agree but don't think it actually matters too much, because Dougie is doing the talking and encouraging and the fact that he is n't the 'real' captain is pretty irrelevant. In the eyes of the players they probably see Freedman as the inspirational leader anyway. So not sure that needs to change because being captain obviously means a lot to Adam.

 

[rlb999]

Let's go back to the start....

A good friend stated recently, "I want success and I want it now, as some of us are getting to an age where we may never witness it unless it comes soon".

In the last 5 years, we've had 2 promotions, 2 cup finals, 1 play-off qualification, and we've beaten Man Utd.

Given that there are 92 clubs in this football league, all looking for success, exactly what sort of achievement is your friend looking for?

 

[Irate Ian]

Ian - good post your views have been are well thought out and eloquently stated, however disagree with most of what you have said!!!

I do not believe that by bringing in so many loan players with little hope of signing the majority we are building a solid squad. If we had used the likes of Moussa, Herd, Masters, Lokando and Scannell and youth players your argument would carry more weight.

The truth is that Tilson's recent signings have made the squad far worse than last season and probably only fractionaly better than the squad that he inhereted. We have certainly gone backwards over the past couple of years - fact.

Tilson has been excellent for us and will go down as being our best Manager, however IMO he has gone stale at the club. There are very few Managers who remain at a club in excess of 5 years and Tilson should be commended for his achiements however for the club to go forward and progress we need change.

Watford were in a similar position to us, with Boothroyd over achieving in recent years. The club realised that things were not progressing and he rightly or wrongly was sacked. Only time will tell if Watford have made the right decision however for what it is worth I believe they may have as they have started to climb the table!

OK we went through a stage in the 90's early 00's where we had numerous Managers who were a disaster. If however the club is not progressing we need change and fresh ideas that only a change in Managerial staff can bring. Are you suggesting that we should stick with Tilson regardless of results or obvious improvements?

Yep exactly that. Keep the faith.

He and Brush know more about football and footballers than you or I will ever know. He is very obviously a very good Man Manager, or in another way a "Players Manager".

They trust him and he them. Some might say he can be over loyal by sticking by the players on the pitch to sort out problems, leaving subs too late - but that is his way. Irritating and frustrating as that can be to fans [me included at times] when I think about it after, I can reconcile in my mind his principals.

When indiscipline arises, it has been dealt with quickly and quietly, as it should be.

Tilson may not be a good communicator to the press, but I say this:-

He knows the time of day.


Will come back on the subject of loanees later, when I have more time, must get to work for now.

 

[Rob1920]

I have always and always will back the T&B + RM partnership, I think its madness not to after whats been achieved under them. It can't always be fantastic & our overall profile as a club has been raised from that of league 2 strugglers to an established league 1 side with them in charge.

My only frustration with T&B, and I know its a perenial hot potato on here, is their seemingly inability to get the best out of certain players who end up going elsewhere & shining. The first was Kightly but hey, we all make mistakes. But then again with Hooper, who you kind of feel Tilly gave up on because he knew he couldn't unlock the secret to getting the best out of him (ok he's no Kightly but he's top scorer with one of the best teams in League 1), and although many may disagree with me, I can see the same happening with Moussa who I personally think is a huge talent.

But then again if T&B were perfect they'd have been lured away to a bigger club by now, and personally I'm happy to put up with their few imperfections as at our level they are consistantly proving to be one of the best management teams around.

 

[sufcintheprem]

Just to pick up on a point on here about goals just after half time.

We've conceded three times in the five minutes after the interval in the league. Is this really a cause for concern or even anything more than a statistical variance? We've also scored twice in this time giving us a gd of -1. I'd be more concerned about the 75th to 80th minute where we're F 1 A 4 GD -3.

If you were making a data-based decision, some might say that this is the time that the opposition subs brough on around the 70 minute mark start to have their impact on the game and that Tilson's reluctance to use subs to change a game is the real issue.

Taking something completely different, the more important stats are that we're second bottom in the 8 game form guide and this needs to be stopped. To hearten us, I believe we've only played three league games with our first choice front two and we're unbeaten in those. We need Barnard and Freedman back as soon as possible - stop doing punditry for Sky Dougie - and then we should be able to pick our results up a bit. Still expecting another difficult Christmas period though.

 

[Irate Ian]

Let's go back to the start....



In the last 5 years, we've had 2 promotions, 2 cup finals, 1 play-off qualification, and we've beaten Man Utd.

Given that there are 92 clubs in this football league, all looking for success, exactly what sort of achievement is your friend looking for?

Good question. I agree, but took it to mean a secure Championship spot and then mounting a challenge for Prem but will ask him when next see him.

 

[Irate Ian]

I have always and always will back the T&B + RM partnership, I think its madness not to after whats been achieved under them. It can't always be fantastic & our overall profile as a club has been raised from that of league 2 strugglers to an established league 1 side with them in charge.

My only frustration with T&B, and I know its a perenial hot potato on here, is their seemingly inability to get the best out of certain players who end up going elsewhere & shining. The first was Kightly but hey, we all make mistakes. But then again with Hooper, who you kind of feel Tilly gave up on because he knew he couldn't unlock the secret to getting the best out of him (ok he's no Kightly but he's top scorer with one of the best teams in League 1), and although many may disagree with me, I can see the same happening with Moussa who I personally think is a huge talent.

But then again if T&B were perfect they'd have been lured away to a bigger club by now, and personally I'm happy to put up with their few imperfections as at our level they are consistantly proving to be one of the best management teams around.

Have to admit being wrong as T & B may have been on Hooper.

I was so convinced at his lack of scoring ability I bet £10 that he would not score 15 or more league goals with Stevie GG [Kudos Steve] as he's about to collect on the bet before poxy Christmas !

Share your views on Moussa, but with my Hooper record, that is no recomendation.

 

[sufcintheprem]

Good question. I agree, but took it to mean a secure Championship spot and then mounting a challenge for Prem but will ask him when next see him.

sufc in the prem? how ridiculous!

Ten thousand posts in, the joke finally comes to fruition :)

 

[Irate Ian]

Ian - good post your views have been are well thought out and eloquently stated, however disagree with most of what you have said!!! [no worries ... we all have differing views]


I do not believe that by bringing in so many loan players with little hope of signing the majority we are building a solid squad. We differ. The try before you consider to buy or for emergencies as with Mildenhall, loanees are a good option If we had used the likes of Moussa, Herd, Masters, Lokando and Scannell and youth players your argument would carry more weight. Differ. There is a "pecking order" [loyalty] and these youngsters have to force their way into the established players positions

The truth is that Tilson's recent signings have made the squad far worse than last season Disagree. This team is brimming full of potential if we have them all fully fit and probably only fractionaly better than the squad that he inhereted. We have certainly gone backwards over the past couple of years - fact Strongly disagree this to be a fact - as we are yet to see what the present squad can do

Tilson has been excellent for us and will go down as being our best Manager, Agreehowever IMO he has gone stale at the club Strongly disagee. There are very few Managers who remain at a club in excess of 5 years and Tilson should be commended for his achiements however for the club to go forward and progress we need change He is the envy of many other clubs and can only keep improving as with the team and squad

Watford were in a similar position to us, with Boothroyd over achieving in recent years. The club realised that things were not progressing and he rightly or wrongly was sacked. Only time will tell if Watford have made the right decision however for what it is worth I believe they may have as they have started to climb the table I have no regard for other clubs SUFC 1st, 2nd 3rd and last - can you hear me banging the computer table ?!

OK we went through a stage in the 90's early 00's where we had numerous Managers who were a disaster. If however the club is not progressing we need change and fresh ideas that only a change in Managerial staff can bring. Disagree, as above this would be potentially disastrous IMOAre you suggesting that we should stick with Tilson regardless of results or obvious improvements? No, but let them work their magic and have continuing patience, which is exactly what I told my friend referred to in the original thread !



My concern a few seasons ago was that team spirit might be lost with too many loanees, and I still have reservations. But, if Norwich and Plymouth can do it , having survived well in the Championship - why not us ?

Could provide us with the stepping stone without the need to waste bundles of cash on signings that may still go wrong and end up having to sell at a loss.... as in our recent history.

 

[Irate Ian]

Totally agree, however after the initial success that Tilly, Brush and Martin have had, the club seems to be currently going backwards, and not forwards or even standing still.

The squad is probably as weak as it ever has been since Tilly took over, if you look at depth as well as the starting XI, and this is their fault.

People on here keep harping back to the days of finishing 17th in League 2, and how bad things were. I think we must all except that as well as overachieving for a club of our size recently, under Little, Martin, Newman etc. we were seriously underachieving.

The club if based on size, should of been challenging in League 2 or bottom half of League 1 when Tilly took over. However the over achievement in the past few years has grown the club to the point where we would expect to be challenging at the top of League 1.

You only have to look at the other clubs in the division, and their attendances etc. Only Leicester, Leeds, Huddersfield and MK Dons are significantly higer, and you can add Peterbourogh into the mix due to thier owner, but there are plenty of other clubs such as Millwall, Scunthorpe and Oldham that we should be competing with.

There aren't any clubs below us with bigger gates. (except Bradford in League 2)

I am sure that if this is a temporary blip as Tilly rebuilds for next season, then everything will be rosy with the new ground happening (eventually).

If, however this current slump continues, and we don't manage to finish much above mid table in league one, or even worse get dragged into a relgation fight, then questions must be asked, as that would be a serious underachievement for our size of club.

Sometimes you have to go backward or sideways, to move forward, but I cannot understand how you justify your comment "The squad is probably as weak as it ever has been since Tilly took over". Please clarify.

We may have gone backward in losing some team spirit with all the changes, but that will soon be restored and the first signs of it's return was in the goal celebration on Boxing Day, when I think all bar Mildenhall formed a human pile on top of Stan.

We may also have temporarily mislaid that cohesion and shape/balance to our team play, but signs also of improvement in that area also.

Once we get back that ability to retain possession for longer adding next a little more tempo to our play, will take us to another level.