Breaking News The Nov/Dec Embargo thread

[Blueeyedboy]

If there’s ever a time to be transparent, it’s now. The club needs to reassure the fans that there is a active plan in place to pay off the tax bill.

 

[JAL]

If there’s ever a time to be transparent, it’s now. The club needs to reassure the fans that there is a active plan in place to pay off the tax bill.

We can dream can't we?

Or have all the dreams run out?

 

[Texas Eslan]

Weather you like it or not the figure is there, all I'm saying is people keep saying get Martin out and there are buyers out there well there's your starting point £15M plus whatever he values the club etc.

Let's see a few of them being interview by Chris Phillip's, then you could add pressure to sell otherwise it is pointless.

You’ll get very few potential buyers go public in circumstances where the owner has stated he is unwilling to sell. Why? Because a lot will be uninterested in a hostile takeover. Should the club become available then it will be a different kettle of fish and I would expect a number of buyers to be interested. At £15m maybe not but if we can put enough pressure on Ron to leave then maybe he can be forced to accept losses. After all, any business investment has inherent risk of being lost. Smaller clubs get bought by far wealthier individuals than Mr Martin. We come with 3.5k season ticket holders and average attendances around 5k at the bottom of the National League. We have amazing potential for an owner to build on.

 

[londonblue]

You assume wrong.
In the end HMRC want their money and go about getting it in the best way they can. We have a history of late payments, but also a history of ultimately paying. How many clubs is it now that have gone into admin now over the years leaving such debts behind- 30? more?
The situation is absolutely lamentable and its at Ron's door to fix whichever way you look at it.

Not necessarily. I have, in the past, discussed this with an accountant friend who works in distressed debt. Usually his first two jobs when he buys a failing business are to 1) sack the CFO or FD and b) discuss a payment plan with HMRC. His view is if you're honest with HMRC and let them know in advance that there is going to be an issue, and it's a one-off then they're happy to help. If you're persistent late payers they're less likely to be accommodating.

 

[kentblues]

The overdue tax bill that a Time To Pay schedule was agreed for, and this overdue tax bill, are different bills, no? So stands to reason that another TTP agreement is needed.

I don't know. No-one on here does and if they say they do there is every chance they are making it up. The thought I have if it is as reported true that the senior staff at the club have been blindsided then I find it very hard to believe that it relates to new tax liabilities that are routinely paid on monthly/quarterly basis. You would know if they were paid or not and so zero chance of a surprise. Hence why I think its to do with the existing TTP schedule.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I swear the last three managers we had they have all have a transfer embargo

Not sure if Brown was under an embargo but the two before him certainly were.

The questions we need answering are:


Is it owed by SUFC or RM personally (perhaps linked to the court case)?
.

It won’t be because of a debt RM personally owes. It won’t be directly linked to the court case either. Don’t waste time asking that as a question.

The national League have more strict rules with clubs in financial difficulties compared to the football league(for some reason) and don't give you a licence for the start of the season if you don't meet the criteria. I wonder how we will fair at the end of the season with these rules. If we stay up they might just relegate us anyway.

Being cynical I doubt they’d relegate us when we bring 500 to most away games as we’re worth more to them than the team who would come up to replace us.

 

[Roberts83]

I haven't taken one penny from Southend United to date.

Are you one of the ones that hasn’t been paid ??

 

[Flinty]

I suspect that John Still is a consultancy role and probably his pay was ad hoc. I actually believe that Stans intentions are bought from the heart- he will know better than any of us the scale of this mess of this club and is probably trying his very best to stop us going the way of Darlington. Sadly due to how Ron has woven all the debts of the club into his grubby, shady interlocking companies accounting we have no exit plan other than Fossets.

I suspect Ron knew this day would come regarding his tax avoidance going to court, the hope would of been fossets goes ahead circa a decade ago, he makes his millions, which means he could offer to settle his fraud with some kind of plea deal. Southend get fobbed off with a crap lego 3 sided stadium which they would pay crippling rent on, no main stand to actually make decent out of match money - but under new ownership. The whole " I love this club too" was just a charade, he doesn't, he never has and he never will, Southend United was always a business transaction for him - nothing more.

I suggest we all walk away from this now, let the club go bust, let Ron go bust and as fans we have two choices - go get our football fix with another team or rally round start a phoenix club and start the process of the slow march back to the Football league - at least with a fanbase our size we could be competitive in most of the lower leagues and be winning games and be on a sound financial footing. Our new badge could be a crumpled 3 sided stadium, flames coming out of it with a flying phoenix Shrimp soaring to the sky ?

Does he go bust ? surely he gains more room for housing where once a stadium should have sat if the club goes ?

 

[Danshrimper]

The chances of HMRC agreeing to a payment plan with a company that is a consistent late/non payer is pretty slim I would have assumed.

The Time to Pay agreement is made specifically for companies that fail to pay their bills on time. Otherwise, what would be the point in it?

 

[kentblues]

Not necessarily. I have, in the past, discussed this with an accountant friend who works in distressed debt. Usually his first two jobs when he buys a failing business is to 1) sack the CFO or FD and b) discuss a payment plan with HMRC. His view is if you're honest with HMRC and let them know in advance that there is going to be an issue, and it's a one off then they're happy to help. If you're persistent late payers they're less likely to be accommodating.

Look just my view- I have always paid my VAT/PAYE/Corporation Tax on time so never had to learn from personal experience. But have dealt with enough suppliers and customers in distress to form that view over the years. HMRC's goal is to get their money not put people out of business.

 

[wiggy]

Same sh** different day. Expecting a quote from Stan or someone else to tell the naughty fans to get behind the club. The future is great. The stadium is going to rid the planet of covid.

Fancy Stan will be on his way back to the Villa or wherever he comes from....he's as ashamed and embarrassed as the rest of us...he was our big hope if allowed to do things but obviously Ron was never gonna let someone upstage him!

 

[Blue Yonder]

Look just my view- I have always paid my VAT/PAYE/Corporation Tax on time so never had to learn from personal experience. But have dealt with enough suppliers and customers in distress to form that view over the years. HMRC's goal is to get their money not put people out of business.

I think people would be surprised how far they will go to maximise the money they retrieve. If the defaulter is in dialogue with them I imagine a deal is to be done. There is a limit. The other issue is all the fines, interest and penalties we must be paying every time this happens. Its bewildering that SC got a positive feedback to taking all 3 coaches on when we were looking for two if we were going to run out of cash within a very few weeks. I can't see how SC is in any way to blame for any of this and TL was presumably looking at a cash flow forecast signed off by the owner.

 

[Fairport]

As usual it is a cash flow problem, Ron never has ready monies available. He usually manages to somehow find some cash but this takes time, in the meantime it's an embargo. Most clubs run at a loss but the owner(s) put money in as and when it is needed. Ron never seems to have the finance available on the day that it is needed. A small time operator who has gambled on one big payday (FFarm). In the meantime the ones to suffer are SUFC and its loyal fans.

 

[Texas Eslan]

As usual it is a cash flow problem, Ron never has ready monies available. He usually manages to somehow find some cash but this takes time, in the meantime it's an embargo. Most clubs run at a loss but the owner(s) put money in as and when it is needed. Ron never seems to have the finance available on the day that it is needed. A small time operator who has gambled on one big payday (FFarm). In the meantime the ones to suffer are SUFC and its loyal fans.

Interesting point re most clubs running at a loss. Do they?

Genuinely interested in that point. The reason is because the amount of times I have heard Ron has had to put money in to keep the lights on etc because the club isn’t profitable. It always leads me to think that here is a businessman who has had 20 years to turn SUFC into a profitable club and has failed. He then makes out he is a hero for putting money in when it is on him that it is loss making in the first place!

Also all these claims of “top 3 budget” for players wages. I’d rather we were saying “players paid within a sustainable budget” and forego all the added debt that comes with it.

 

[Pak66]

You assume wrong.
In the end HMRC want their money and go about getting it in the best way they can. We have a history of late payments, but also a history of ultimately paying. How many clubs is it now that have gone into admin now over the years leaving such debts behind- 30? more?
The situation is absolutely lamentable and its at Ron's door to fix whichever way you look at it.

For Ron Martin to fix? give it a rest . He should walk out the door and never come back, just 20 years too late.

 

[mattytheshrimper]

You can just see it now, the bill will be paid but borrowed from one of Ron's other companies like it always is and then to be paid back with interest. I'm far from an expert with sort of thing but it seems like he's robbing Peter to pay Paul and charging interest on loans he's making to himself. I could be completely wrong and this is all based on assumptions and things that I hear which could be complete rubbish, but ultimately it all seems dodgy to me.

 

[Pak66]

As usual it is a cash flow problem, Ron never has ready monies available. He usually manages to somehow find some cash but this takes time, in the meantime it's an embargo. Most clubs run at a loss but the owner(s) put money in as and when it is needed. Ron never seems to have the finance available on the day that it is needed. A small time operator who has gambled on one big payday (FFarm). In the meantime the ones to suffer are SUFC and its loyal fans.

Yes Mr Martin sells the only assets the club has at knock down prices. sawyer Spurs £50,000
Just think if Sawyer played a full season in the first team how much would we sell him for then?

 

[Pak66]

You can just see it now, the bill will be paid but borrowed from one of Ron's other companies like it always is and then to be paid back with interest. I'm far from an expert with sort of thing but it seems like he's robbing Peter to pay Paul and charging interest on loans he's making to himself. I could be completely wrong and this is all based on assumptions and things that I hear which could be complete rubbish, but ultimately it all seems dodgy to me.

You are just about on the button!

 

[Cricko]

FYI people.

Stan has asked us to confirm:

1) He has not taken a single penny from the club to date

2) As an employee he is bound by a contract and that contract means the sack if he releases club information without permission

3) He has delivered everything he said he would to Southend United to the point of sign off. Everything.

 

[mattytheshrimper]

Interesting point re most clubs running at a loss. Do they?

Genuinely interested in that point. The reason is because the amount of times I have heard Ron has had to put money in to keep the lights on etc because the club isn’t profitable. It always leads me to think that here is a businessman who has had 20 years to turn SUFC into a profitable club and has failed. He then makes out he is a hero for putting money in when it is on him that it is loss making in the first place!

Also all these claims of “top 3 budget” for players wages. I’d rather we were saying “players paid within a sustainable budget” and forego all the added debt that comes with it.

THIS 100%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He always bangs on about how he saves the club but like you've said, its his own fault that we're in this position in the first place. Even crazier, people give him credit for it. I remember last November/December when we came out of the embargo seeing loads of people saying 'we need to give credit for this one'. Jokers.