Breaking News The Nov/Dec Embargo thread

[blueblueblue]

That club statement is a classic, it's probably confused fans even further.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Get rid of Collymore and Still, now is not the right time for these appointments.

Get rid? Oh another pay off alongside Brown & his team!

But don't worry, as per the Zoom calls, Ron has it under control and trust him, our reputation is fine etc..............

Having Collymore and Still makes us a more attractive proposition for investors IMO.

Understand the Martin hate as we are under yet another embargo, but surely Tom and Patrick should also come in for some flack too. He is the CEO, and knows the finances (as well as Patrick Van De Waag) Why even consider getting Stan / John Still which costs more cash when they know an embargo might be upcoming because they haven't got the cash to pay HMRC.

These HMRC bills aren't surprises. Its not like you open the post one day and bang, HMRC have sent you a bill for £250k (number made up to illusltrate a point)

The surprise from Tom and Patrick may not be the bill but the lack of cash forthcoming when Ron told them it would be.

I’d also point out that we’d been deprived of home games by Yeovil being in the cup and Maidenhead postponing. Before yesterday it was 3 (badly attended) home games in about 2 months. Hopeful last nights game eases cash flow a little (not by £200k it won’t though).

That makes zero sense. What's the point of an embargo that doesn't prevent signings? I suspect that what is actually meant is that the embargo will be lifted when the payment plan is in place, and given they expect that to be agreed soon signings can be made.

Also, yesterday after the match KM said targets had been identified.

It does seem that the pandemic has been a bit of a saviour here in that HMRC have been more reasonable even with us. I suppose that, if the statement is correct, and this is an historic debt and we've kept up with recent liabilities then maybe we've proved to them that we can meet current liabilities, which may have swayed their decision to agree a payment plan.

It will hold up rather than prevent signings if it’s sorted sooner rather than later.

I wouldn’t be surprised if we have lost out on signings though.

 

[mattytheshrimper]

No Matty, it actually sounds perfectly logical, but your dislike of SC blinds you to that logic.

SC said he would deliver a basket of player names through his contacts, for the management team to pore over.

It makes perfect sense, knowing what we know now, that what SC and John Still have brought to the table has not been and cannot be acted upon. Clearly, that is not the fault of anyone bar Ron Martin. I think it's pretty simple really.

Maybe, maybe not. Judging by what the club have just announced re the embargo they said the embargo doesn't affect signings (seems strange) as and when they are identified. So this 'suggests' that players have not been lined up, something Stan promised about 1,462 times.

 

[Smiffy]

Teflon Ron strikes again. The statement is a disgrace and complete bollocks as per. That was a real chance to show things have changed. Own it, no bull**** etc. But no. Blah blah Ron and Companies support the club blah blah bollocks. **** off.

 

[basilrobbie]

I'm an outsider, obviously, so apologies if I seem to be intruding on private grief. However :

a) to the poster who referred to Blackpool - one of the main reasons we were able to do something that affected later events was because 90% of us got behind the campaign and stayed behind if for four years. If you don't sustain your effort, or take a critical mass with you, having an impact is much, much harder. Only you can deliver on that

b) JackT77 (post 172) - what you say is eminently sensible and the FSA are pressing for ALL of it under the fan led review. Unfortunately, I think I will be 2023 before we see an independent regulator in

c) I wouldn't count on HMRC doing you many favours. At a time when they are (reportedly) playing hard ball with Derby County over a £28m debt, I doubt they will undermine their stance with them by playing soft ball with you over a much smaller amount. They became preferred creditors under law changes in January and they will want to establish precedents for how they are going to act in the future

d) the timing of this is awful and I feel sorry for the new people who have come in. I'm mystified by the (few) people who still want to defend Mr. Martin. Obviously I am not close to what has been going on, but even to me there seem to be two huge issues. The first is that Mr. Martin does not seem to have either the inclination or financial wherewithal to invest properly in the club or its infrastructure. The second is that he, and whoever advises him, have been taking some awful decisions in recent years on player recruitment in particular.

e) at my club we (now) have a new owner running a business model that involves recruiting young, athletic, flexible and developing players who are susceptible to good coaching and can both perform on the field now and have a potentially significant re-sale value later. Is a similar level of strategic planning in place at Southend ? It doesn't look like it.

f) right up until this morning when I heard this news I thought you were unlikely to go down. There are three slots, Dover have booked one, King's Lynn look like another and I thought you could finish above at least one of the others. Now I'm less sure

I wish you well, because you are a club with a rich history, still quite remarkable levels of support and you deserve far, far better. I just feel that if you are minded to be proactive and try to make something happen (and I know that people connected with Save Our Southend are), then there isn't much time to waste. Good luck.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Maybe, maybe not. Judging by what the club have just announced re the embargo they said the embargo doesn't affect signings (seems strange) as and when they are identified. So this 'suggests' that players have not been lined up, something Stan promised about 1,462 times.

You trusting Ron’s version over Stan’s version

 

[Supershrimper]

CLUB STATEMENT: EMBARGO

The Club can confirm that the National League have placed us under embargo whilst we finalise the terms of a Time To Pay agreement with HMRC in relation to debt that accrued during the Coronavirus pandemic.

www.southendunited.co.uk

The Club can confirm that the National League have placed us under embargo whilst we finalise the terms of a Time To Pay agreement with HMRC in relation to debt that accrued during the Coronavirus pandemic.

Like many other businesses that had reduced income during the pandemic, HMRC has agreed to allow us some time to repay historic debt.

Unlike many other clubs, we did not borrow money from the Premier League and do not have any bank borrowings. Southend has been supported by Ron and Group Companies through the pandemic.

With a reasonable approach from both parties we hope to conclude our discussions with HMRC shortly.

The embargo is not expected to prevent signings of new players when they are identified and terms agreed.

 

[Medway Blue]

Maybe, maybe not. Judging by what the club have just announced re the embargo they said the embargo doesn't affect signings (seems strange) as and when they are identified. So this 'suggests' that players have not been lined up, something Stan promised about 1,462 times.

That is a lie. It has prevented a couple of signings already. Don't get drawn in by the spin. Technically they're right, embargo doesn't stop signings, but it does stop us registering players. Who's gonma want to join us if they don't know when they'll be able to play?

 

[mattytheshrimper]

You trusting Ron’s version over Stan’s version

I don't trust either or them

 

[Leigh_Seasider]

Wow. What a shocker this is. One thing I will say though is I'm confused at the digs at Stan. Stan isn't, never has been, anything to do with the finances at SUFC. It's hardly his fault we're skint. For all we know he's lined up players or helped facilitate clubs offering us players but they can't be registered - we now know why. Stan shouldn't get stick for that part at least.

I'm taking a couple of non-Southend supporting fans on Saturday, have told them to buckle up as could be an interesting atmosphere.

 

[Mad Cyril]

e) at my club we (now) have a new owner running a business model that involves recruiting young, athletic, flexible and developing players who are susceptible to good coaching and can both perform on the field now and have a potentially significant re-sale value later. Is a similar level of strategic planning in place at Southend ?

We have a list of targets with attributes in a Lotus-1-2-3 spreadsheet.

 

[Danshrimper]

See 266.

It's to help companies that are honest, upfront and not persistent non/late payers. Companies like SUFC will more likely be taken to court to force full payment. After all, what's the point of a payment plan on one bill when you have low confidence the next will be paid?

I think HMRC are more interested in receiving the money they are owed than honesty. If HMRC believe that we are capable of paying the money back in instalments, then an agreement will be reached.

If they take us to court and demand money instantly, they won’t get it. If they agree for it to be paid in instalments, they (hopefully) will get it. That’s more important to them than how honest they perceive a company to be.

 

[meerkat54]

I wish I shared your optimism. Most business people that fly so close to the wind on too many occassions usually get caught out in the end, and with his own personal tax affairs to sort out asell, this could be the nail in the coffin. Personally, i've had enough. I had enough years ago, when it was all about his shiny new stadium. I love the club, the history, the players and the supporters who have become great friends, but enough is enough. He must now agree to sell the club WITH the assets he has bought on the cheap immediately, or the protests should return.

Yeah I try to be the optimist . But we do need a new owner. But Ron won’t go anywhere soon. Think we just need to ride out the storm until planning is finalised.
We all know the saying (a leopard never changes it’s spots) that is Ron too a tee.

 

[Userorange]

Don’t understand a lot of this. The club are saying no problem everyone, just sorting things out.

SVC seems to be saying something else, now describing himself as an employee (unpaid to date) who can’t say anything in case he gets sacked!

What is there to say. The club is sorting this out - right?

 

[blueblueblue]

The only God send, it's a previous Tax bill during the tight Covid restrictions therefore HMRC will be slightly lenient. Until this time next year when it all happens again.

 

[southendkid]

Maybe, maybe not. Judging by what the club have just announced re the embargo they said the embargo doesn't affect signings (seems strange) as and when they are identified. So this 'suggests' that players have not been lined up, something Stan promised about 1,462 times.

Think you've fallen for the spin there, it says the embargo doesn't affect signing players once "identified and terms agreed". We won't offer them terms whilst the embargo is in place so it's technically true even though we know players have already been identified.

 

[Shrimperstrust]

I appreciate the post and realise this group is in the dark as much as any supporter or other group, finding out from a public release by a journalist. My questions to you are:

1. Who are you officially liaising with at the club? Stan, Tom, Ron, other..

2. What is the Shrimpers Trust’s stance on protesting? Next game, next home game, still not prepared to support one

3. When will the Shrimpers Trust next be meeting face to face with representatives from the club? Again I’m thinking an extraordinary meeting needs to be called with Ron Martin, CFO, CEO, Stan, Manager etc to discuss a plan to overcome this dire, repetitive situation

4. What do you need from us, the wider fan group at this time?

Thanks

Thank you for your reply. Our official statement will cover some of this later today.

1. We are currently attempting contact with Tom Lawrence and Ron Martin.

2. All options are on the table. We believe that we need a truly United front and hope to work alongside other groups and various other fans not affiliated with a group.

3. Agreed, an extraordinary meeting is required. Whether this includes the club or not at this point is something for discussion amount the fans.

4. Ideas, support and Unity. We will not agree on everything but we all want what is best for Southend United and we truly want to hear everyone’s thoughts on how to progress. Feel free to message us directly.

 

[gatecrasher]

Does he go bust ? surely he gains more room for housing where once a stadium should have sat if the club goes ?

Possibly not, but does he get his massive pension pay off the back of us no. Once all the building works are complete will he make more then £5m from the roots Hall development - I doubt it. So thats a poor impact on the alleged £15m debt the club owes him

 

[Holy Joe]

I hope it's a cashflow issue - caused potentially by recently cancelled games, possibly Derby going into admin and maybe Ron.

On the positive side there should be cash coming into the club soon from the Sayers deal. Plus, if the SoS doesn't call in the planning application by tomorrow, planning permission will be formally granted. - This could unlock some funding.

With an optimistic hat on, this could all be over by Xmas in a good way!

@kentblues - SoS acknowledged receipt of planning refferal on the 18 Nov - thus triggering the 21 day period.

 

[MilkeySUFC]

It won't matter if we get kicked out of the league for financial reasons. The NL bosses are very much on the ball with anything like that.

Can they play in midfield?