THE NEW STADIUM

[Xàbia Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Shrimp in a Kilt @ Nov. 02 2006,18:16)]Am I the only one, BTW, who thinks that any chance of staying at Roots Hall ended when Jobson built the flats on the Southbank, thereby hemming the ground in and changing its character for good (and not even making any money on the deal, I understand, the numpty!).

Not necessarily. A few years back (when Martin Dawn first appeared on the scene), I spoke with RM about the feasibility of spinning the pitch 90° so that the West Stand effectively became one end of the ground. It would have meant completely demolishing the East Stand, South Stand and North Stand and, I mused, adding the benefit on an underground car-park underneath the stadium that would resolve any parking issues. I imagined that the two side stands would have to be quite narrow but how big would a stadium for a club our size need to be? After my little pitch, RM admitted that it was an interesting concept but it wouldn't resolve the financial problems of the club; we need alternative sources of income to survive ...

 

[steveo1]

You are not in a minority of 1.
There are others who are also wary of the New Stadium.

Quote[/b] ]It was sold ages ago, to Roots Hall Limited. They let us play there

When you say"they" you obviously mean Ron Martin as he is the owner of this company.
He is also the owner of 13 other Companies, including Martin Dawn PLC, a property development company. Excuse my ignorance, but has anyone other than Ron Martin told us that Roots Hall cannot be developed?
Everyone seems to be getting carried away on a wave of euphoria what with The Championship and New Stadium, but have you ever stopped to think "mmmm Property developer buys football club situated on prime building land"

 

[jamessufc88]

Quote[/b] (steveo1 @ Nov. 02 2006,18:43)]You are not in a minority of 1.
There are others who are also wary of the New Stadium.

Quote[/b] ]It was sold ages ago, to Roots Hall Limited. They let us play there

When you say"they" you obviously mean Ron Martin as he is the owner of this company.
He is also the owner of 13 other Companies, including Martin Dawn PLC, a property development company. Excuse my ignorance, but has anyone other than Ron Martin told us that Roots Hall cannot be developed?
Everyone seems to be getting carried away on a wave of euphoria what with The Championship and New Stadium, but have you ever stopped to think "mmmm Property developer buys football club situated on prime building land"

A tad cynical I feel. Can't see RM being that dishonest at all. Besides, you can see that expanding RH wouldn't be feasible just by looking at the layout of the site and it's proximity to residential areas. Many residents hate the noise on match days and even more hate the traffic, I'm sure. There'll be even more people parking on their streets if half of the car park is taken up by expanded stands. I just can't see the council going with it.

 

[steveo1]

Quote[/b] ]It's not ours to expand anyway!

I dont understand what you mean by ours.

Roots Hall Limited, a Ron Martin company, owns Roots Hall. The Southend United Football Club Ltd, owned by Ron Martin, play their games at Roots Hall. When you say ours, you are implying that someone other than Ron Martin runs the whole thing.
You make a number of other points, including the example of Wigan who are owned by Dave Whelan who is a transparent millionaire and has funded the development of the club primarily with JJB money.
How many times have we filled Roots Hall this season? A new ground might attract more fans initially, but do you really think we will half fill it when the novelty wears off. The only way to fill it will be to play in the Premier league but that will need a massive cash injection to enable us to attract the players to get us there.
Cynical maybe. Realistic? You decide.

 

[Beefy]

We lost control of our destiny when Vic Jobson and Ronnie Whelan threw the club into serious debt. Martin Dawn & Delancey saved the club, not out of the goodness of their hearts, but because they knew that there was serious money to be made from the development of Roots Hall. Neither company have ended up seeing that money and ultimately Delancey had enough and sold up so now we're solely owned by Ron Martin & his company.

But Ron is a businessman who had very little interest in this club before he bought it. Of course he and his company want/need to make some of their money back. And thats where the new ground and the redevelopment of Roots Hall come in. Theres no point in us saying that we don't want to go because if it were not for these people we probably wouldn't have a football club today. In order for a lot of people to make a lot of money, Southend United are going to have to move. Thats the bottom line and thats why it will happen, regardless of what happens on the pitch this season.

As far as property developers go, Ron Martin has been a pretty good one for us. He's spent money that he didn't need to spend, he's sorted the club out off the pitch and he now, clearly, cares deeply for the club's future. He could have stood by and let us slip out of the league or even slip out of existence and then been able to do whatever he wanted to the ground. He didn't. He could then have tried to move us to a tin-pot ground that cost nothing to make. He hasn't done, instead he's put together plans for a ground that the entire county can be proud of. The point of being cynical about his intentions, I'd suggest, has long gone.

 

[Bielzibubz]

Quote[/b] (Beefy @ Nov. 02 2006,19:47)]We lost control of our destiny when Vic Jobson and Ronnie Whelan threw the club into serious debt. Martin Dawn & Delancey saved the club, not out of the goodness of their hearts, but because they knew that there was serious money to be made from the development of Roots Hall. Neither company have ended up seeing that money and ultimately Delancey had enough and sold up so now we're solely owned by Ron Martin & his company.

But Ron is a businessman who had very little interest in this club before he bought it. Of course he and his company want/need to make some of their money back. And thats where the new ground and the redevelopment of Roots Hall come in. Theres no point in us saying that we don't want to go because if it were not for these people we probably wouldn't have a football club today. In order for a lot of people to make a lot of money, Southend United are going to have to move. Thats the bottom line and thats why it will happen, regardless of what happens on the pitch this season.

As far as property developers go, Ron Martin has been a pretty good one for us. He's spent money that he didn't need to spend, he's sorted the club out off the pitch and he now, clearly, cares deeply for the club's future. He could have stood by and let us slip out of the league or even slip out of existence and then been able to do whatever he wanted to the ground. He didn't. He could then have tried to move us to a tin-pot ground that cost nothing to make. He hasn't done, instead he's put together plans for a ground that the entire county can be proud of. The point of being cynical about his intentions, I'd suggest, has long gone.

Top post......



Nuff said.....

 

[Shrimp in a Kilt]

Quote[/b] (Beefy @ Nov. 02 2006,19:47)]We lost control of our destiny when Vic Jobson and Ronnie Whelan threw the club into serious debt. Martin Dawn & Delancey saved the club, not out of the goodness of their hearts, but because they knew that there was serious money to be made from the development of Roots Hall. Neither company have ended up seeing that money and ultimately Delancey had enough and sold up so now we're solely owned by Ron Martin & his company.

But Ron is a businessman who had very little interest in this club before he bought it. Of course he and his company want/need to make some of their money back. And thats where the new ground and the redevelopment of Roots Hall come in. Theres no point in us saying that we don't want to go because if it were not for these people we probably wouldn't have a football club today. In order for a lot of people to make a lot of money, Southend United are going to have to move. Thats the bottom line and thats why it will happen, regardless of what happens on the pitch this season.

As far as property developers go, Ron Martin has been a pretty good one for us. He's spent money that he didn't need to spend, he's sorted the club out off the pitch and he now, clearly, cares deeply for the club's future. He could have stood by and let us slip out of the league or even slip out of existence and then been able to do whatever he wanted to the ground. He didn't. He could then have tried to move us to a tin-pot ground that cost nothing to make. He hasn't done, instead he's put together plans for a ground that the entire county can be proud of. The point of being cynical about his intentions, I'd suggest, has long gone.

Well put, Beefy.

The only point that I haven't seen made yet is that to buy out Delancey, RM has to have put himself into some serious debt. Therefore, there is now no option but to sell RH and move because that is the only way that the debt will ever be repaid.

 

[TrueBlue]

Prime example is Hull or Plymouth they were both getting crowds of 5-6 thousand then Home park was rebuilt and hull moved and now both of them can get well over 17,000 each! and thats BEFORE their respective rise up the leagues!

 

[Napster]

Quote[/b] (TrueBlue @ Nov. 03 2006,07:07)]Prime example is Hull or Plymouth they were both getting crowds of 5-6 thousand then Home park was rebuilt and hull moved and now both of them can get well over 17,000 each! and thats BEFORE their respective rise up the leagues!

what about darlo?

 

[Xàbia Shrimper]

My only though is that Darlington was run by a crook who couldn't give a toss about the fans ... sounds familiar to SUFC just a decade or so ago ... and subsequently fans have gone elsewhere ...

 

[Technician]

Quote[/b] (TrueBlue @ Nov. 03 2006,07:07)]Prime example is Hull or Plymouth they were both getting crowds of 5-6 thousand then Home park was rebuilt and hull moved and now both of them can get well over 17,000 each! and thats BEFORE their respective rise up the leagues!

... and in both cases, the catchment areas are sufficient to support the size of stadium built. Both clubs enjoy an area where football supporters would have to travel some distance before coming across another "bigger" club.

... if you want an example of a poorly planned new stadium, then Darlo is a very good example. Living in the shadow of three big north-eastern clubs and not too far from Leeds, Darlo has a population of approximately 90000 and therefore cannot support a stadium of 25000.

... and what of Southend? a population of 250000 within a 10 mile radius of Roots Hall, increasing attendances, popular chairman, realistic targets being set including a stadium that only requires one in twelve of the population to be interested in the club to fill the stadium.

... I salute Ron Martin for gauging the potential of the club to such an extent that he is going to maximise its appeal with the new stadium. Other clubs have made mistakes (Darlo) and we can learn from these. I see no reason why we cant get average gates of 14000 to 16000 in our present position or even in League 1, just as long as Uncle Ron stays and keeps Tilson & Brush at the helm.

 

[steveo1]

Quote[/b] ]I see no reason why we cant get average gates of 14000 to 16000 in our present position

me neither, but we dont.

 

[Xàbia Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (steveo1 @ Nov. 03 2006,10:10)]

Quote[/b] ]I see no reason why we cant get average gates of 14000 to 16000 in our present position

me neither, but we dont.

There could be a whole host of reasons why that isn't though.

The matchday experience at Roots Hall isn't the most pleasurable, except for those die-hard fans who will keep coming even if Southend United are playing in a n old shoebox at the end of Eastern Avenue. The stadium is antiquated, cramped and uncomfortable, the catering is sub-standard on the verge of inedible, the bars are inefficient and the beer tasteless, and I can see why floating fans could be less than enthusuastic about making a regular visit to watch their local club when you have the likes of the Emirates Stadium just an hour's train journey away. These are not "glory hunters"; this is the 21st century and, as such, football supporters are continually being offered bigger and better experiences to watch their football. (Research has suggested that as much as 20% of regular football attendees actually have no allegience to any one team; they just love the game.) If Southend United offered a new shiny stadium, with all the associated facilities that go with it, then it is very likely that a fair percentage of those football supporters might come along on a regular basis, simply because the matchday experience has been vastly improved. I think that even if the inevitable happens and we drop down the League One, the club's clearly-defined ambition would still bring in over 10,000 into a new stadium. People want to be part of a success story ...

 

[Westcliff Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Technician @ Nov. 03 2006,09:05)]... and what of Southend? a population of 250000 within a 10 mile radius of Roots Hall, increasing attendances, popular chairman, realistic targets being set including a stadium that only requires one in twelve of the population to be interested in the club to fill the stadium.
at the helm.

And I live 11 miles away from Roots Hall

 

[Technician]

Quote[/b] (CI-City Blue @ Nov. 03 2006,09:34)]

Quote[/b] (Technician @ Nov. 03 2006,09:05)]... and what of Southend? a population of 250000 within a 10 mile radius of Roots Hall, increasing attendances, popular chairman, realistic targets being set including a stadium that only requires one in twelve of the population to be interested in the club to fill the stadium.
at the helm.

And I live 11 miles away from Roots Hall  

... as the crow flies?

... or by road?

 

[Olisadavey]

Quote[/b] (Xàbia Shrimper @ Nov. 03 2006,09:22)]

Quote[/b] (steveo1 @ Nov. 03 2006,10:10)]

Quote[/b] ]I see no reason why we cant get average gates of 14000 to 16000 in our present position

me neither, but we dont.

There could be a whole host of reasons why that isn't though.

The matchday experience at Roots Hall isn't the most pleasurable, except for those die-hard fans who will keep coming even if Southend United are playing in a n old shoebox at the end of Eastern Avenue. The stadium is antiquated, cramped and uncomfortable, the catering is sub-standard on the verge of inedible, the bars are inefficient and the beer tasteless, and I can see why floating fans could be less than enthusuastic about making a regular visit to watch their local club when you have the likes of the Emirates Stadium just an hour's train journey away. These are not "glory hunters"; this is the 21st century and, as such, football supporters are continually being offered bigger and better experiences to watch their football. (Research has suggested that as much as 20% of regular football attendees actually have no allegience to any one team; they just love the game.) If Southend United offered a new shiny stadium, with all the associated facilities that go with it, then it is very likely that a fair percentage of those football supporters might come along on a regular basis, simply because the matchday experience has been vastly improved. I think that even if the inevitable happens and we drop down the League One, the club's clearly-defined ambition would still bring in over 10,000 into a new stadium. People want to be part of a success story ...

Agreed. I brought two non-Southend supporting mates along to my last game before I moved to Bournemouth (Brighton League Cup) and they didn't enjoy it. The facilities are poor, there's no leg room, the food is "rank" (their words) and it generally isn't the most enjoyable experience. You have to, realistically, be a fan to enjoy it.
And whether we want to admit it or not, we need the non-supporting people in attendence too for revenue.

While RM was never a fan, and only had an interest in making money on the RH site, I don't think any of us can argue with what he has done with the club. If he wants to sell the Roots Hall site for profits sake, so be it. He is a business man afterall. I will support this as long as he also continues showing the club the respect it deserves, which so far he has most certainly done.

And as far as the new stadium goes, it will be a shame to move. It really will, I have so many great memories there. But the honest truth of it is if we want to survive and maximise everything we could potentially have, then we have to move. And I'm sure in he long term we'll all grow to love it. Lets face it, who doesn't want to see Southend at the top of their game in ALL aspects?

 

[Murkey_Mouse]

Man Utd's sell-out has proved why we need a new ground, most of us (included me) has missed out on watching SUFC Vs Man Utd at Root-Hall as 11,800 is not enough (include 700 empty seat for separted beween home & away fans in North West Corner). I would think the Man Utd match would sell out easily in a 22'000 seater stadium at Fossett Farm - at least some of us would not miss it this time

 

[steveo1]

Quote[/b] ]If he wants to sell the Roots Hall site for profits sake, so be it.

As long as the new ground is ready first, there wont be a problem

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Quote[/b] (steveo1 @ Nov. 03 2006,16:09)]

Quote[/b] ]If he wants to sell the Roots Hall site for profits sake, so be it.

As long as the new ground is ready first, there wont be a problem

(without wishing to open up a much discussed old can of worms) The covenant will see to that I think

 

[Napster]

Quote[/b] (steveo1 @ Nov. 03 2006,16:09)]

Quote[/b] ]If he wants to sell the Roots Hall site for profits sake, so be it.

As long as the new ground is ready first, there wont be a problem

and therein lies the problem. If we need the sale of RH to fund the FF development, there is nothing stopping us from being in limbo, apart from a flimsy covenant