The Everlasting Debate

[A Century United]

I just what Southend to win and get promotion... if we play a little long ball getting my dream I dont really care TBH

This. :thumbsup:

 

[Angell Delight]

I have pestered the wee birdie to allow me to answer the minority who still insist on tarring our manager as a hoofball purist.After watching Northampton who are undefeated having adopted a more direct approach and knowing Fleetwood, Oxford, Bradford, Torquay Rotherham and many more have acquired a big target man and have acquired a more direct style I wonder why we have to be a purist team when many Southend teams of the past successfully played with a target man . I am sure there is no need for me to name the players or managers who gleefully gained success with a direct style. I also pleaded with the wee birdie to clear up some of the other criticisms being levelled at him which are out of character and his management style, he is a very professional man and at this time feels it inappropriate to give comment on certain issues, he pleads for everybody to stick together in these difficult times and keep the faith.

I personally don't have any problem whatsoever with playing a direct game at times, infact I think it could work very well in this league and make us unpredictable to the opposition which can only be a good thing....provided we mix it up too. The big worry I have is that once a big striker comes in we will revert to the long ball the vast majority of the time and that is going to potentially nullify the effect of the likes of Eastwood (in particular) and Harris etc. Freddy still looks our biggest threat by far in terms of forwards and was looking sharper and sharper as pre-season progressed, there were signs of the old Eastwood there. My big concen is that if we go route one we won't get the best out of Freddy as most of his good work comes from receiving the ball on the floor in and around the box. Harris too was probably our best player in the final 2 months of the season when the style changed to incorporate more play on the deck, if neither of these players thrive with a targetman that's a big problem.

I will counter this argument by saying that maybe getting an EFFECTIVE targetman in will work with Eastwood and/or Harris - maybe the biggest problem last season was the square peg in a round hole cos Dicko wasn't a natural targetman. I guess we'll find out soon enough, however I sincerely hope we play a mixed game rather than flat-out long ball or I highly doubt we'll get the best out of the more talented players in the squad. Here's hoping for a decent big fella with good feet a la Akinfenwa rather than a big carthorse like Delroy Facey.....yuk. :thumbdown:

 

[Angell Delight]

Alternatively, you could get the ball down a bit and move it around. We seem to have the forward players and wide players to do this, but not the central midfield players I suspect.

Spicer looks like a ball player to me, been impressed with him - good signing.

 

[Angell Delight]

I think PS would be far better off just avoiding shriperzone for a while, yes its all great stuff and highly addictive reading but probably even some of us find it a bit depressing.

Sturrock is an experienced and proven manager and should just concentrate on getting us promoted. After all if we dont get promoted this season i'm not sure he would be here next season anyway, so best he doesthings his way.Short ball, long ball as long as we get results thats good enough for me.

I'll go with that, PS is better than any other manager we can dream of attracting at this level and I'm sure his way is the right way, I just hope we can quickly find a system that will also get the best out of our better players - if we do we have a real chance of promotion.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

We ought to mix it up has been debated.Not all our teams heve been good with a 6ft plus forward in it.. Under Whelan Boere and Rammell were part of relegation. Under Martin Conlon was hopeless and under Little, although we made strides and was maybe unlucky to face axed, we had Campbell who was dreadful.If it wasn't for fitness issues Tolson may have done better. In Webb's third spell Tony Richerds was non-existent. I wasn't a fan of Broughton. Regarding 6ft plus forwards the better exeptions might include Collymore, Corr and although before my time Garner.

What an utterly bizarre post.

Not all our teams with forwards under 6ft have been good either. I give you Neville Roach under Martin, Belgrave in Webb's third spell etc

How the hell can leave Angell and Benjamin out of any discussion of better targetmen? The greatest ever Southend team contained not one but two of them! Also Goater and Gray were OK as well.

 

[Angell Delight]

How the hell can leave Angell and Benjamin out of any discussion of better targetmen? The greatest ever Southend team contained not one but two of them!

Spot on. :thumbsup:

 

[canveyshrimper]

Aside from the style it seems to me that Sturrock hasn't the foggiesy idea what his best side is. He's made lots of changes foreach game so far. Prosser has a stinker against Accrington, in comes Straker, he has a poor game at Oxford in comes Prosser. And so on.....

 

[GNH]

This debate could run forever!

As someone who hasn't got a season ticket for the first time in 25 years and no away games either I'm not going to be best placed to debate how games were played if I'm not there.

However what does intrigue me is the players signed by PS don't seem to fit into a "direct" style of play. The likes of Tomlin, Eastwood, Martin, Benyon, etc are never going to be effictive playing like that. Also for me the whole point of a target man is not to lump the ball up to him, rather play the ball from the back, get it out wide and then deliver quality into the box for him to attack. This doesn't seem to happen much either

 

[FarmdogSUFC]

I don't think people mind hoofball when Corr, or Mohsni last year, were playing. I think people get frustrated when we have the likes of Benyon and Harris up top and we still smash it to their heads.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

This debate could run forever!

As someone who hasn't got a season ticket for the first time in 25 years and no away games either I'm not going to be best placed to debate how games were played if I'm not there.

However what does intrigue me is the players signed by PS don't seem to fit into a "direct" style of play. The likes of Tomlin, Eastwood, Martin, Benyon, etc are never going to be effictive playing like that. Also for me the whole point of a target man is not to lump the ball up to him, rather play the ball from the back, get it out wide and then deliver quality into the box for him to attack. This doesn't seem to happen much either

Eastwood and Harris weren't the gaffer's signings were they? I'm not sure Martin or Benyon were either.

I think Tomlin can fit in, but he needs a BBBC.

 

[Beefy]

Eastwood and Harris weren't the gaffer's signings were they? I'm not sure Martin or Benyon were either.

I think Tomlin can fit in, but he needs a BBBC.

Benyon was. Sturrock made a deal about how he'd been trying to sign him for a couple of seasons (as he did with Tomlin).

Benyon has been a casualty of Freddy Eastwood signing, as Lawrie Dudfield was the first time around.

 

[Smiffy]

Eastwood and Harris weren't the gaffer's signings were they? I'm not sure Martin or Benyon were either.

I think Tomlin can fit in, but he needs a BBBC.

Well if not. Then it begs the question as to why we are signing players that the "Manager" does not want.

Surely that is undermining him, not to mention adding to a worsening financial situation.

Again highlighting the issues we have "upstairs" and perhaps "downstairs" as well to be quite honest.

 

[McNasty]

Surely Eastwood was a Martin signing designed to put bums on seats to increase income.

 

[Beefy]

Well if not. Then it begs the question as to why we are signing players that the "Manager" does not want.

Surely that is undermining him, not to mention adding to a worsening financial situation.

Again highlighting the issues we have "upstairs" and perhaps "downstairs" as well to be quite honest.

We don't know if the manager wanted those players though. We suspect that Harris and Eastwood were signed by people upstairs. What involvement Sturrock had is anyone's guess.

It's not undermining anyone so long as everyone at the club knows what their role is.

Tilly didn't sign Shaun Goater or Dougie Freedman, by all accounts.

 

[tangerine dream]

Eastwood and Harris weren't the gaffer's signings were they?

So if not Paul Sturrock's signings, then who?

 

[Onion_Bag_Dave]

What some of you seem to misunderstand is that we want balls to be played into the box on the ground! Sturrock wants possession on the edge of the oppositions box! That's why we have signed Tomlin, Timlin, Benyon, Harris, Eastwood, Spicer and more who all can play! We get to that position by sometimes playing directly to the front man!

SO WE CAN PLAY IN THEIR HALF!

Why don't people understand this? It's crazy!

We want players to be able to play football in their half! For goodness sake!

 

[ooh-andy-ansah]

What some of you seem to misunderstand is that we want balls to be played into the box on the ground! Sturrock wants possession on the edge of the oppositions box! That's why we have signed Tomlin, Timlin, Benyon, Harris, Eastwood, Spicer and more who all can play! We get to that position by sometimes playing directly to the front man!

SO WE CAN PLAY IN THEIR HALF!

Why don't people understand this? It's crazy!

We want players to be able to play football in their half! For goodness sake!

Yes yes yes we're all so thick, I must remember to bow to your superiority oh great one

 

[Onion_Bag_Dave]

Yes yes yes we're all so thick, I must remember to bow to your superiority oh great one

Stop crying about it!
Come up with a viable argument then!

 

[fbm]

Last week in the Super Cup Real Madrid played some pretty decent direct football which a couple of times split Barcelona open. You play to your strengths primarily but then employ any tactic to beat the team in front of you, surely?

We now have a plan A and B. So far this season we have only gone "direct" against Accrington and Northampton late on when we needed a goal.

And for those too young to remember, Ian Benjamin was the main reason this club got out of the 3rd tier for the first time ever. At last we had a player who could hold the ball up and bring in the wide players to cross the ball into the box. There's nothing wrong with that.
Thats what PS is trying to achieve, isn't it?

 

[Jam_Man]

What some of you seem to misunderstand is that we want balls to be played into the box on the ground! Sturrock wants possession on the edge of the oppositions box! That's why we have signed Tomlin, Timlin, Benyon, Harris, Eastwood, Spicer and more who all can play! We get to that position by sometimes playing directly to the front man!

SO WE CAN PLAY IN THEIR HALF!

Why don't people understand this? It's crazy!

We want players to be able to play football in their half! For goodness sake!

Its fine when we get thje posession on the edge of the box. There were far too many games last season where Dickinson didnt get on the ball so all we did was give the ball back to them.

When we got promoted last time from this division we had the likes of Eastwood/Dudfield/Gray. We didnt have a targetman then and certainly werent playing direct football. I can certainly see the benefit of one for when we want to mix it up, Corr being fit would be a great start but looks doubtful if we are signing someone else.

As to this season Ive still only seen Accrington, where we werent playing overly direct until Cresswell came on. Cant comment on the two away games...