The EU Referendum

[rigsby]

Morning Tangle, I was thinking about your 'horseshoe effect' whilst reading about the rise of the Alternative for Germany (AfD) the other day.

I was surprised to find out that they were in fact started by a group of economics professors in response to the Euro crisis. They only had moderate support but have been growing fast since they reinvented themselves as an anti-migration, anti- Islam party.

Now people are taking them seriously and they are gaining seats. Of course this means, like all party's, they are trying to purge their 'lunatic' fringe. One of their newly elected MP's and journalist for a right- wing publication Ronald Glaser, has come under fire the following views.......

He claims Britain attacked Germany for no good reason during WW2. Churchill was a war lord, comparable with Hitler and responsible for the death of millions. He refers to the bombing of Dresden etc, etc.

So there you go Tangled, be careful with your views if you ever go to Germany. You might be just a bit to right wing for the locals.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

A fascinating ( and to some, a frightening) view into the background machinations, the inividuals and their ideologies, which eventually led the UK to Brexit.





https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/29/daniel-hannan-the-man-who-brought-you-brexit

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37532364

It's March.Let the fun begin!

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

The Hungarian vote on migrant issues may lead to others following AND the next step in the end of " free movement" with in the EU. Will this have ramifications that strengthen the UK position?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

The Hungarian vote on migrant issues may lead to others following AND the next step in the end of " free movement" with in the EU. Will this have ramifications that strengthen the UK position?

It might.But frankly I can't see any referenda on immigration elsewhere in the EU,other than in Hungary,which is a very right-wing country.

 

[callan]

It might.But frankly I can't see any referenda on immigration elsewhere in the EU,other than in Hungary,which is a very right-wing country.

Didn't you post something up about the Swiss recently?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Morning Tangle, I was thinking about your 'horseshoe effect' whilst reading about the rise of the Alternative for Germany (AfD) the other day.

I was surprised to find out that they were in fact started by a group of economics professors in response to the Euro crisis. They only had moderate support but have been growing fast since they reinvented themselves as an anti-migration, anti- Islam party.

Now people are taking them seriously and they are gaining seats. Of course this means, like all party's, they are trying to purge their 'lunatic' fringe. One of their newly elected MP's and journalist for a right- wing publication Ronald Glaser, has come under fire the following views.......

He claims Britain attacked Germany for no good reason during WW2. Churchill was a war lord, comparable with Hitler and responsible for the death of millions. He refers to the bombing of Dresden etc, etc.

So there you go Tangled, be careful with your views if you ever go to Germany. You might be just a bit to right wing for the locals.

Morning Squire.Been to Germany several times.Most recently to Berlin, a couple of years back.Plenty of radical lefties there,I'm glad to say.The alternative scene,especially in EB, is amazing.

Interesting article here on the alternative housing scene in Berlin,including a squat I visited with our younger daughter.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/...-anti-gentrification-law-really-work-neukolln

Didn't you post something up about the Swiss recently?

It's possible but I'm afraid I can't remember.:cricko:

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

I've always believed that economic considerations will come a far second to political ones when negociations finally commence. No matter how the government or the right-wing 'Brexit' press try and persuade us that when the talking starts, the EU will be sensible and offer the UK a 'good deal' this is increasingly seeming like a pipe dream. With the government performing u turns at the drop of a hat, the 'anti ref' chant of "You don't know what you're doing" comes to mind. What a bloody mess. :'(

David Bloom, HSBC’s global head of FX, said the currency is now “de facto official opposition to the Government’s policies”.

"The argument which is still presented to us, that the UK and EU will resolve their difference and come to an amicable deal, appears a little surreal. It is becoming clear that many European countries will come to the negotiation table looking for political damage limitation rather than economic damage limitation. A lose-lose situation is the inevitable outcome,” Mr Bloom said.

As I see it, the UK (and the EU) is, in the short and medium term, going to pay a heavy price for "regaining their supposed sovereignty." The way the pound is plummeting and consequently effecting pensions from the Uk, there will be a whole new influx of immigration into the the UK and it won't be stopped by legislation. I can almost hear the ex-pats in France, Spain and indeed the whole of Europe, packing their cases as I type!:sad:

 

[rigsby]

I've always believed that economic considerations will come a far second to political ones when negociations finally commence. No matter how the government or the right-wing 'Brexit' press try and persuade us that when the talking starts, the EU will be sensible and offer the UK a 'good deal' this is increasingly seeming like a pipe dream. With the government performing u turns at the drop of a hat, the 'anti ref' chant of "You don't know what you're doing" comes to mind. What a bloody mess. :'(

David Bloom, HSBC’s global head of FX, said the currency is now “de facto official opposition to the Government’s policies”.

"The argument which is still presented to us, that the UK and EU will resolve their difference and come to an amicable deal, appears a little surreal. It is becoming clear that many European countries will come to the negotiation table looking for political damage limitation rather than economic damage limitation. A lose-lose situation is the inevitable outcome,” Mr Bloom said.

As I see it, the UK (and the EU) is, in the short and medium term, going to pay a heavy price for "regaining their supposed sovereignty." The way the pound is plummeting and consequently effecting pensions from the Uk, there will be a whole new influx of immigration into the the UK and it won't be stopped by legislation. I can almost hear the ex-pats in France, Spain and indeed the whole of Europe, packing their cases as I type!:sad:

Sounds like good news to me, cash rich pensioners are great for the economy. Instead of blowing all their British money abroad before they come home they can spend it in Britain.

The vote was for us, the people who live, work and buy houses in Britain. If that doesn't suite ex pats in Europe, don't take offence, who cares.

 

[manor15]

Sounds like good news to me, cash rich pensioners are great for the economy. Instead of blowing all their British money abroad before they come home they can spend it in Britain.

The vote was for us, the people who live, work and buy houses in Britain. If that doesn't suite ex pats in Europe, don't take offence, who cares.

And this is where there is the generational divide which has left a lot of young people unhappy at the fact that older generations have decided that they should not be able to enjoy the same rights of being able to travel and live and work abroad. The world is no longer a place where only Britain is affected and there are no opportunities for Brits elsewhere, to use such an attitude is exactly the kind of 'little England' attitude which will see us drive ourselves into a complete mess in the quest for 'true Britain'.

 

[rigsby]

And this is where there is the generational divide which has left a lot of young people unhappy at the fact that older generations have decided that they should not be able to enjoy the same rights of being able to travel and live and work abroad. The world is no longer a place where only Britain is affected and there are no opportunities for Brits elsewhere, to use such an attitude is exactly the kind of 'little England' attitude which will see us drive ourselves into a complete mess in the quest for 'true Britain'.

Its nothing to do with little England. People have always been able to travel and work and that won't change now were out. Her Ladyship worked in an Office in Athens in the early 80's, long before Greece lied there way into the EU. None of us needed visas to travel round Europe and it was more fun and a lot cheaper before the Euro.

We voted out to give the young people more of a chance because your correct young people don't have the same rights. The same rights with work, education and housing in this country as their parents and grandparents enjoyed. You have ben sold an utter lie about freedom of movement and the Economy. You need to think bigger, the rest of the world, where your future is. Not in the failing EU.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Around 450 years old an still rings with an amazingly resonant truth............

http://www.mensaforkids.org/MFK2/assets/File/Read/MFK-Poetry-1.pdf

 

[Bielzibubz]

Only just over a year old and oh how her predictions are slowly but surely coming true. Many of us Brexiters have seen and known this for years and it's just one of the reasons why we believe we're better of out of it.

http://fortune.com/2015/08/03/eu-fail-greece/

 

[RHB]

Yesterday there was web based news on inflation rises and today I've listen to financial experts on BBC breakfast this morning. They are all telling me goods services and food prices are going up now and in the near future due to Brexit. I'm watching the value of the pound sink and each day more crisis news from the NHS and other public services is staring me in the face. None of these things is my opinion, they are events that are happening now.

I can't change what some of the UK voting public have done, and as a believer in democracy I wouldn't want to, but neither can I see any benefits to me or mine from the Referendum outcome. No doubt you 'better out' supporters will shout me down for airing my view, but right now it really does look like jam tomorrow to me (maybe).

 

[rigsby]

Yesterday there was web based news on inflation rises and today I've listen to financial experts on BBC breakfast this morning. They are all telling me goods services and food prices are going up now and in the near future due to Brexit. I'm watching the value of the pound sink and each day more crisis news from the NHS and other public services is staring me in the face. None of these things is my opinion, they are events that are happening now.

I can't change what some of the UK voting public have done, and as a believer in democracy I wouldn't want to, but neither can I see any benefits to me or mine from the Referendum outcome. No doubt you 'better out' supporters will shout me down for airing my view, but right now it really does look like jam tomorrow to me (maybe).

That has been coming for years. What were you expecting if we remained, an EU bale out for the NHS. Are you remoaners now going to blame the trains being late or the weather on Brexit.

 

[MK Shrimper]

That has been coming for years. What were you expecting if we remained, an EU bale out for the NHS. Are you remoaners now going to blame the trains being late or the weather on Brexit.

You know the trains are owned by foreign banks who then lease them to the TOCs, a lot of them themselves are European. Wonder what will happen to train fares come Article 50?

 

[rigsby]

You know the trains are owned by foreign banks who then lease them to the TOCs, a lot of them themselves are European. Wonder what will happen to train fares come Article 50?

I have no idea. What will happen to our foreign owned airports or football teams?

By the way did you know that if we stop paying £10b to the EU we could make every single train journey in Britain absolutely free. Then if you stopped foreign aid, a further £10b, we could hand out the fare in cash to everyone who travelled by train.

So in future you could travel to Bradford for free and when you arrive instead of checking your ticket the staff would say thank you for using our service, here's £40 to spend in the local economy.....Who would care about the Euro exchange rate then.

 

[MK Shrimper]

I have no idea. What will happen to our foreign owned airports or football teams?

By the way did you know that if we stop paying £10b to the EU we could make every single train journey in Britain absolutely free. Then if you stopped foreign aid, a further £10b, we could hand out the fare in cash to everyone who travelled by train.

So in future you could travel to Bradford for free and when you arrive instead of checking your ticket the staff would say thank you for using our service, here's £40 to spend in the local economy.....Who would care about the Euro exchange rate then.

Or would could fund the NHS at £350M per week like they promised to.....oh.

 

[Gt Yarmouth Shrimper]

I have no idea. What will happen to our foreign owned airports or football teams?

By the way did you know that if we stop paying £10b to the EU we could make every single train journey

Excellent, and then we could give the NHS £350m pw as well.
Oh wait, her ladyship said a few days ago it isn't happening.......

 

[Medway Blue]

Excellent, and then we could give the NHS £350m pw as well.
Oh wait, her ladyship said a few days ago it isn't happening.......

See I'm no great fan of Nigel, but I don't recall him wording it like this. The Leave campaign were inaccurate with the £350m figure, but the NHS was just one thing on the list of items that they felt we'd be able to direct some of the money saved from Brexit towards. I do feel as though Remainers have twisted the Leave camps words a bit to fit their agenda here.