The EU Referendum - What are the facts, Where are the facts

[Tangled up in Blue]

The CBI's research is one amongst many, and in most cases they are written to suit either a Remain or Leave, pre determined position.

A lot of research has not factored in thing's such as the cost of EU regulation, but has simply relied on membership cost vs UK funding, rebate etc.


The CBI itself receives funding from the EU, so there could be a conflict of interest on any research they may perform.

To see our current deal with the EU as good value, we would probably need to make a comparison with other EU members (and indeed non EU members) to see if, as a claim it actually holds up, and are we just seeing 'Value' from a purely economic point of view.

Is a trade deficit good value?

Is it a positive thing that we have to rely on the EU to make our trade deals, and ultimately are we better off (however long it takes) having deals tailored towards the UK's business + economy needs rather than a collective of 28 countries who all have different, but of course collectively are a bigger market?

Are we saying that the UK in terms of GDP, has a better value deal than say Switzerland who run trade surplus.

Are we exposed via our membership to the Euro, and failing economies elsewhere in the EU?

In fact, the CBI's research is not an original piece of research, as such.It's only a peer review of some pre- existing research.Not only that, it omits some research at the extreme end of the leave spectrum, which would weaken its pro-European case.

 

[callan]

In fact, the CBI's research is not an original piece of research, as such.It's only a peer review of some pre- existing research.Not only that, it omits some research at the extreme end of the leave spectrum, which would weaken its pro-European case.

What does the report omit?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Forget the civil war in the Tory party, I'm sick to death of the psychological warfare being conducted on the British public. By Cameron and his cronies with their scaremongering, working in the background to get other EU countries to make threats against the UK if it leaves to frighten us into voting he way Cameron wants; pressuring the BCC to suspend Longworth for not following the Tory line of opinion; getting big business leaders to speak out against a Brexit. All in the name of self-interest.


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Sounds about right - Cameron has made out like this is the ultimate level of democracy and then tried to fix the result.

 

[Napster]

Forget the civil war in the Tory party, I'm sick to death of the psychological warfare being conducted on the British public. By Cameron and his cronies with their scaremongering, working in the background to get other EU countries to make threats against the UK if it leaves to frighten us into voting he way Cameron wants; pressuring the BCC to suspend Longworth for not following the Tory line of opinion; getting big business leaders to speak out against a Brexit. All in the name of self-interest.


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Actually the BCC position is and always will be neutral hence the resignation.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

What does the report omit?

I've not read it.I'm just taking Andrew Neil's opinion on it as gospel.I'm sure he, or at least the Daily/Sunday politics team's researchers, have read it though.

As I suggested, it's a peer review report rather than an original piece of research.What it omits (apparently) is to include some of the more negative research findings about the benefits of the EU,therebye skewing the final figure arrived at in favour of the benefits (in the order of 10%,IIRC).

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Forget the civil war in the Tory party, I'm sick to death of the psychological warfare being conducted on the British public. By Cameron and his cronies with their scaremongering, working in the background to get other EU countries to make threats against the UK if it leaves to frighten us into voting he way Cameron wants; pressuring the BCC to suspend Longworth for not following the Tory line of opinion; getting big business leaders to speak out against a Brexit. All in the name of self-interest.


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I'm sick to death of the psychological warfare being conducted on the British public. By Murdoch and his cronies with their scaremongering, working in the background to make immigration seem like a bad thing to frighten us into voting the way Murdoch wants; making a fuss about the BCC suspending Longworth for not following the BCC line of staying neutral; getting minor business leaders to speak out against a Brexit. All in the name of self-interest.

 

[MK Shrimper]

I can't remember where I read it, but Murdoch (allegedly) said that when he walks into 10 Downing Street the Government listen and does what he wants them to do. In Brussels they ignore him.

An excellent reason to maintain the status quo.

 

[mrsblue]

I'm sick to death of the psychological warfare being conducted on the British public. By Murdoch and his cronies with their scaremongering, working in the background to make immigration seem like a bad thing to frighten us into voting the way Murdoch wants; making a fuss about the BCC suspending Longworth for not following the BCC line of staying neutral; getting minor business leaders to speak out against a Brexit. All in the name of self-interest.

Immigration can be good if we adopted the points system,doctor's yes and such like.

Immigration can be very destructive if anyone can come here.

Longworth was stitched up.

Murdoch has actually chosen his Government on several occasions.

 

[callan]

I'm sick to death of the psychological warfare being conducted on the British public. By Murdoch and his cronies with their scaremongering, working in the background to make immigration seem like a bad thing to frighten us into voting the way Murdoch wants; making a fuss about the BCC suspending Longworth for not following the BCC line of staying neutral; getting minor business leaders to speak out against a Brexit. All in the name of self-interest.

Does the Governments own scaremongering not make you sick to death then?

For me the tactic being used by both sides is let's embed our arguments through the exploitation of fear, and neither is coming out with any particular credit.

We will all have our own initial view on subjects such as Immigration, The Economy, Democracy etc, but clearly need more accurate information with regards facts and outcomes.

However what we see, is the Leave side cherry picking information to suit it's agenda and remain guilty of the same.

It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Cameron had not got his reforms and needed to campaign to exit.

 

[callan]

I can't remember where I read it, but Murdoch (allegedly) said that when he walks into 10 Downing Street the Government listen and does what he wants them to do. In Brussels they ignore him.

An excellent reason to maintain the status quo.

A better outcome would be for our Government to ignore the odious buffoon as well.

 

[MK Shrimper]

A better outcome would be for our Government to ignore the odious buffoon as well.

Indeed. Sadly he's probably one of the most influential people in Britain.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Does the Governments own scaremongering not make you sick to death then?

For me the tactic being used by both sides is let's embed our arguments through the exploitation of fear, and neither is coming out with any particular credit.

We will all have our own initial view on subjects such as Immigration, The Economy, Democracy etc, but clearly need more accurate information with regards facts and outcomes.

However what we see, is the Leave side cherry picking information to suit it's agenda and remain guilty of the same.

It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Cameron had not got his reforms and needed to campaign to exit.

I'm sicker about the anti-EU campaign as that's been being waged by the unelected media barons and their lickspittles for years, if not decades, rather than the days that the Remain campaign have been negatively campaigning for.

Personally I wish the Remain campaign would focus more on the positive aspects of the EU (cheap holidays abroad, making trade easier, getting rid of Barna etc) - not least because Leave don't really have any positive arguments to make - but I find the hypocrisy (or lack of self-awareness) in Leave staggering. There's been a negative out campaign waged for years and as soon as they get a taste of their own medicine they are squealing about how unfair it all is.

The thing is with politicians (and newspaper proprietors dabbling in politics to further their own interests) is that when both just accuse the other side of lying, being greedy and inept, eventually the electorate just believes both sides.

 

[mrsblue]

I'm sicker about the anti-EU campaign as that's been being waged by the unelected media barons and their lickspittles for years, if not decades, rather than the days that the Remain campaign have been negatively campaigning for.

Personally I wish the Remain campaign would focus more on the positive aspects of the EU (cheap holidays abroad, making trade easier, getting rid of Barna etc) - not least because Leave don't really have any positive arguments to make - but I find the hypocrisy (or lack of self-awareness) in Leave staggering. There's been a negative out campaign waged for years and as soon as they get a taste of their own medicine they are squealing about how unfair it all is.

The thing is with politicians (and newspaper proprietors dabbling in politics to further their own interests) is that when both just accuse the other side of lying, being greedy and inept, eventually the electorate just believes both sides.

The electorate surely will not be silly with their vote?

Bottom line is remain in the EU and potentially 500 million can come live here,scary stuff.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

The electorate surely will not be silly with their vote?

We'll see.

Bottom line is remain in the EU and potentially 500 million can come live here,scary stuff.

Silly take an early lead.

 

[callan]

I'm sicker about the anti-EU campaign as that's been being waged by the unelected media barons and their lickspittles for years, if not decades, rather than the days that the Remain campaign have been negatively campaigning for.

Personally I wish the Remain campaign would focus more on the positive aspects of the EU (cheap holidays abroad, making trade easier, getting rid of Barna etc) - not least because Leave don't really have any positive arguments to make - but I find the hypocrisy (or lack of self-awareness) in Leave staggering. There's been a negative out campaign waged for years and as soon as they get a taste of their own medicine they are squealing about how unfair it all is.




The thing is with politicians (and newspaper proprietors dabbling in politics to further their own interests) is that when both just accuse the other side of lying, being greedy and inept, eventually the electorate just believes both sides.

This is of course is worthy of debate, how many low skilled workers do the UK send abroad compared to those that come in.

 

[Napster]

This is of course is worthy of debate, how many low skilled workers do the UK send abroad compared to those that come in.

define low-skilled...

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

define low-skilled...

A "degree" from Birmingham Polytechnic.

 

[mrsblue]

We'll see.



Silly take an early lead.

Correction you achieved that feat with your other rant !

 

[callan]

A "degree" from Birmingham Polytechnic.

Indeed in a top trump game this will be beaten by a 5 year old's star pupil of the week badge.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

A "degree" from Birmingham Polytechnic.

Ha! Now Birmingham Metropolitan University,Ask MKS he went there too!