The Chilcot Inquiry

[Billy Bests boot laces]

I have never seen so many Old Bill in one place at one time until this morning. I was about to nip into Pret for my morning coffee, when about 15 meat wagons came past, swiftly followed by about 30 coppers on foot. Plus there was the incessant sound of helicopters in the sky. In my hazy pre dawn state I wondered WTF was going on and then realised our beloved ex PM was giving his spin, sorry version of the "facts" leading up to the war in Iraq. I wonder how much this protection will cost the tax payer.

Beats last saturdays turnout out side Kings Cross in the evening when there were only 10 meat wagons in attendance to ensure Leeds fans boarded their trains peacefully after their game at Tottenham. Would have thought it was most unlikely 100's would have rampaged towards Euston causing havoc and mayhem after getting the result they did. Imagine what the overtime bill was the met submitted.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Very droll.:)
Since you don't want to elaborate on your views of Israel I'll give you mine.
BTW, I spent 3 months on a Kibbutz on the northern border with Lebannon back in the mid-70's and have also made two further trips since then back to Israel.
The Kibbutz I stayed on was built on Arab land, taken from Arab farmers, who were forcibly evacuated in 1948 and received no compensation for their property.
Far from being a genuine democracy Israel is little more than a puppet state under the control of the American Government.It is a much wider threat to the peace of the entire region than the state of Iran.cf Any of Chomsky's recent political writing.

I'm well aware of the directions of Chomsky's contemptible drivel, and how that has drawn you to your cookie cutter view of Israel and its relationship with the United States and its Arab neighbours. I also happen to believe that it's crap.

The history of most nations is littered with injustices, both suffered and inflicted, and your tale of these few Arab farmers is hardly unique. Much of the sovereign land in this world has been taken by force - we can't undo every single injustice in this world. I'm sure many Jews who fled to the Holy Land from Europe would have preferred to stay where they were and for there to have been no pogroms, no holocaust, but that just didn't happen.

Israel's government is elected democratically, with universal suffrage, that is a fact. Unlike its Arab neighbours, it does not treat its women as second class citizens. There is a close relationship with the US, but this is diminshing as a result of Obama's apologist foreign policy, and it's hardly surprising that Israel should have reached out to the US in 1948 and in subsequent conflicts, she was surrounded by hostile neighbours who were armed by the Soviets.

As for my impressions of Israel? I found them to be among the friendliest and most welcoming people I've ever met, although it did help that I prefaced every introduction by mentioning the number of Arabs I'd killed.

 

[Slipperduke]

I found them to be among the friendliest and most welcoming people I've ever met, although it did help that I prefaced every introduction by mentioning the number of Arabs I'd killed.

And the award for the darkest, most ominous line in the history of the ShrimperZone goes to....!

 

[Napster]

Good to see Short on the attack today.

 

[Slipperduke]

Good to see Short on the attack today.

She's a right **** though. She could have precipitated a collapse of the government if she'd stuck to her convictions and quit. Her ludicrous delusions of grandeur, her absolute stupidity in thinking that she could 'control things from the inside' snuffed out any hope of that.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Good to see Short on the attack today.

I must admit, I was surprised to see that, I was under the impression that she was no longer of this world (in a John Smith/Robin Cook/Donald Dewar/Mo Mowlam rather than Peter Mandelson/John Redwood type of way).

 

[canveyshrimper]

She's a right **** though. She could have precipitated a collapse of the government if she'd stuck to her convictions and quit. Her ludicrous delusions of grandeur, her absolute stupidity in thinking that she could 'control things from the inside' snuffed out any hope of that.

I'm not convinced of that as Robin Cook who was probably a more senior member of the Labour government did quit over Iraq, and the government survived.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I'm not convinced of that as Robin Cook who was probably a more senior member of the Labour government did quit over Iraq, and the government survived.

I thought she completely undermined the anti-war lobby by not quitting.

The government could survive losing one minister, but having such an outspoken critic of the policy remaining in the government gave cover to those who had doubts and prevented momentum against the decision building.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

And the award for the darkest, most ominous line in the history of the ShrimperZone goes to....!

I wouldn't worry Slip, it was only a few and they were all asking for it.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I'm well aware of the directions of Chomsky's contemptible drivel, and how that has drawn you to your cookie cutter view of Israel and its relationship with the United States and its Arab neighbours. I also happen to believe that it's crap.



Israel's government is elected democratically, with universal suffrage, that is a fact. Unlike its Arab neighbours, it does not treat its women as second class citizens. There is a close relationship with the US, but this is diminshing as a result of Obama's apologist foreign policy, and it's hardly surprising that Israel should have reached out to the US in 1948 and in subsequent conflicts, she was surrounded by hostile neighbours who were armed by the Soviets.

As for my impressions of Israel? I found them to be among the friendliest and most welcoming people I've ever met, although it did help that I prefaced every introduction by mentioning the number of Arabs I'd killed.[/QUOTE]

You do a great disservice to Noam Chomsky, who is without doubt one of the finest minds that the US has ever produced.I know this for a fact, for apart from reading various of his books on Linguistics(for professional reasons)and Politics (for personal reasons),I've also had the great privilege of hearing him speak twice in person.
Once at the North American Instute here in Barcelona where he spoke courageously and cogently on American foreign policy and once at the UAB(where I teach part-time)when he gave a lecture on his Perfect theory of Linguistics.

I think the only thing I can agree with you on, in what you say, is that Israel is a democratically elected Government.It is also, as I said, a puppet state of the American Government and dependent on that nation for financial aid and security.

It's one of the ironies of history that the Israeli state, as the embodiment of the Jewish race -arguably the most persecuted racial group in history-should itself be responsible for crimes against humanity in Gaza,Lebanon and elsewhere in Palestine.We know from recent experience in Europe that walls cannot keep people or ideas locked in (or out) for ever.
Israel will eventually have to recognise an independent state of Palestine,tear down the wall aroung Gaza and because of its religous significance to Jews,Christians and Arabs alike , declare Jerusalem to be an International city, under UN supervision(if necessary).

You also seem to be inordinately proud of the number of Arab citizens you claim to have killed.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I thought she completely undermined the anti-war lobby by not quitting.

Agreed.

 

[canveyshrimper]

Israel were willing to recognise a Palestinian state under the terms brokered by Clinton until Arafat reneged on the agreement. If you can put blame on anyone on the current plight of the Palestinians lay it at the door (or coffin) of Arafat.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

You do a great disservice to Noam Chomsky, who is without doubt one of the finest minds that the US has ever produced.I know this for a fact, for apart from reading various of his books on Linguistics(for professional reasons)and Politics (for personal reasons),I've also had the great privilege of hearing him speak twice in person.
Once at the North American Instute here in Barcelona where he spoke courageously and cogently on American foreign policy and once at the UAB(where I teach part-time)when he gave a lecture on his Perfect theory of Linguistics.

I think the only thing I can agree with you on, in what you say, is that Israel is a democratically elected Government.It is also, as I said, a puppet state of the American Government and dependent on that nation for financial aid and security.

It's one of the ironies of history that the Israeli state, as the emdodiment of the Jewish race -arguably the most persecuted racial group in history-should itself be responsible for crimes against humanity in Gaza,Lebanon and elsewhere in Palestine.We know from recent experience in Europe that walls cannot keep people or ideas locked in (or out) for ever.
Israel will eventually have to recognise an independent state of Palestine,tear down the wall aroung Gaza and because of its religous significance to Jews,Christians and Arabs alike , declare Jerusalem to be an International city, under UN supervision(if necessary).

You also seem to be inordinately proud of the number of Arab citizens you claim to have killed.

I'm surprised that such a bright chap as yourself can't differentiate your opinion from fact. And that you continually mess up the 'quote' function on SZ. Step your game up.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I'm surprised that such a bright chap as yourself can't differentiate your opinion from fact. And that you continually mess up the 'quote' function on SZ. Step your game up.

Fortunately, I teach Oral Presentation skills not (fairly obviously)keyboard skills. :)
I think you'll find that most commentators would agree that History in general and Politics in particular has as much to do with opinions (or interpretations) as facts. :soapbox:

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Fortunately, I teach Oral Presentation skills not (fairly obviously)keyboard skills. :)
I think you'll find that most commentators would agree that History in general and Politics in particular has as much to do with opinions (or interpretations) as facts. :soapbox:

Indeed they would, but any decent commentator wouldn't have the arrogance or ignorance to confuse the two. It's my opinion that you're a stooge for Islamic terrorists who would gladly trample on your right to quote Noam Chomsky, or indeed Normski. I'm reasonably certain that my opinion and fact coincide on this matter, but I am at least aware that they're separate entities that only collide on occasion (twice every nanosecond).

And try and read this without spilling your herbal tea. Here's a sample:

'Noam Chomsky (born December 7, 1928) is a far-left, anti-American political writer. His main idea is that we should hold America to an absolute standard of ethics in foreign relations, but he studiously ignores such violations by other countries, even when they are hundreds of times worse.'

 

[Napster]

I studied Chomsky at uni, and disagreed with him. I can't be arsed to disagree with him again on politics.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

I studied Chomsky at uni, and disagreed with him. I can't be arsed to disagree with him again on politics.

But BarnaBlue says it's a FACT that Old Noamsky is a genius. Despite the fact that his linguistic theories are merely an academic extension of moral relativism. And that he's a self-loathing Jew. And that he's a tosser.

 

[Slipperduke]

I'm with South Park on this. Half of Americans exist to kick the world's arse and get things done. The other half are there to bleat about it and convince the rest of the world that not all Americans are baddies.

Actually, I'm don't agree with that. I don't really give a **** today. Bit tired. Not sure why I popped in. Sorry.

*shuffles out of the pub*

*shuffles back in*

Sorry. Forgot my hat.

*shuffles out of the pub*

 

[Napster]

But BarnaBlue says it's a FACT that Old Noamsky is a genius. Despite the fact that his linguistic theories are merely an academic extension of moral relativism. And that he's a self-loathing Jew. And that he's a tosser.

Some of his language ideas were revolutionary at the time. Sadly he pays no attention to semantics, peripheral grammar, or social influence.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

But BarnaBlue says it's a FACT that Old Noamsky is a genius.

Sorry.I "mis-spoke" myself.:)
But there's no question IMO that he has a monumental mind.Whether(or not)you believe in his theory of Universal Grammar or his politics.