The Budget - It Didn't Take Them Long, Did It?

[osymandus]

Actually the wind turbine industry is starting to take off in the Norfolk area , and moving to North Essex as well, the UK is also one of te leading hi tech manufactures in the world . WE have a head start in alternate energies tech , lets hope it dosnt go teh way of jet engines ;)

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Nobody(on the Tory/Lib-Dem benches) has seen fit to explain how the massive cuts in public services spending will necessarily be picked up by the private sector in terms of increased investment and export led growth.It MIGHT happen as it did under Thatcher's Chancellors, Howe and then Lawson, back in the late 70's and 80's.
However, it's a huge gamble which nobody will be able to fully determine the success of until we're three or four years down the line.
It should also be remembered that the price of such "success" was a huge increase in unemployment and social unrest.Public sector strikes will be shortly coming your way.
It would be a brave man(or woman) who categorically ruled out the sort of riots we had last time round in Brixton,Toxteth etc, also returning.
There is also now the very real risk of a double dip recession with this bout of savage cuts further weaking an already fragile recovery.
One of the most revealing aspects of yesterday's Budget Report was the Government revising its own published projected growth figures downwards.
Fasten your seatbelts-you're in for a bumpy ride.

Are you suggesting we should have continued down the Greek path?

How successful has burdening the country with debt been in preventing unemployment and social unrest there?

 

[The Flying Scotsman]

Well as far as I'm concerned the deficit has to be reduced but i am fearful that doing too much now could lead to problems with recession. Also those that like to compare us to the greeks are living on another planet!

Obviously i think we should spread the load and the more well off should be able to afford to help out a bit more. However that doesn't make it any easier than i am now going to worse off than before and that things are going to cost more.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Are you suggesting we should have continued down the Greek path?

How successful has burdening the country with debt been in preventing unemployment and social unrest there?

Not all all.Although the Uk's and Greece's budget deficit are similar in size the crucial difference is that Greece's debt is short term while the UK's is long term.This obviously means that the UK has much more flexibility in how and when it pays off the debt.Greece doesn't have any flexibility at all,which is precisely why they've had draconian conditions imposed on them by the EU and the IMF.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Well as far as I'm concerned the deficit has to be reduced but i am fearful that doing too much now could lead to problems with recession. Also those that like to compare us to the greeks are living on another planet!

Obviously i think we should spread the load and the more well off should be able to afford to help out a bit more. However that doesn't make it any easier than i am now going to worse off than before and that things are going to cost more.

This seems a rational analysis to me.The increase in VAT is of course hugely regressive and hits the poorest hardest.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I think that the suggestions from Gareth in "The Office" are worth trying.

[video=youtube;ESp01zCOf7o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESp01zCOf7o[/video]

Funny, in a politically incorrect sort of way.I'd green you if I could.;)

 

[number11]

This seems a rational analysis to me.The increase in VAT is of course hugely regressive and hits the poorest hardest.

Why is that? surely if they spend less they are paying less VAT, but if they choose to spend more they are doing so voluntarily?

 

[southend4ever]

Shove the VAT up your arse you bunch of toff *****.

 

[canveyshrimper]

This seems a rational analysis to me.The increase in VAT is of course hugely regressive and hits the poorest hardest.

I keep hearing that mantra but am yet to be convinced. Food, Children's Clothes & Books remain zero rated. Therefore it doesn't affect essentials, unless of course essentials are deemed a huge **** off 50" HD TV, the latest I-Phone etc etc.

 

[Napster]

Why is that? surely if they spend less they are paying less VAT, but if they choose to spend more they are doing so voluntarily?

essential services and goods are zero-rated as well

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/forms-rates/rates/goods-services.htm

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I keep hearing that mantra but am yet to be convinced. Food, Children's Clothes & Books remain zero rated. Therefore it doesn't affect essentials, unless of course essentials are deemed a huge **** off 50" HD TV, the latest I-Phone etc etc.

You keep hearing it because it remains true.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Why is that? surely if they spend less they are paying less VAT, but if they choose to spend more they are doing so voluntarily?

Ever heard of income tax? It doesn't produce revenue as easily but it's a much fairer way of raising revenue.The more you earn the more tax you should pay.Simples.

 

[canveyshrimper]

You keep hearing it because it remains true.

Is it? Read the link that Napster put up, and then see how many "essentials" are zero rated, exempt or at the lowest rate of VAT. In the meantime people have got until January to buy the latest electronic non essential wizadry before the rate goes up.

VAT remains an indirect tax, simply put if you buy goods that aren't subject to VAT you don't pay the tax, simples.

 

[number11]

Ever heard of income tax? It doesn't produce revenue as easily but it's a much fairer way of raising revenue.The more you earn the more tax you should pay.Simples.

The more you earn the more you pay is the basis of income tax, but I asked about VAT and why you say it hits the poorest the hardest and is unfair? Im not saying it isn't, it's just something I always assumed to be fair as every pays the same for good they CHOOSE to buy, but Im just interested in the rationale behind your point? If the poorer are buying less stuff then those better off than they are paying less VAT surely?

 

[osymandus]

Is it? Read the link that Napster put up, and then see how many "essentials" are zero rated, exempt or at the lowest rate of VAT. In the meantime people have got until January to buy the latest electronic non essential wizadry before the rate goes up.

VAT remains an indirect tax, simply put if you buy goods that aren't subject to VAT you don't pay the tax, simples.

Problem i sour whole economy is based on people spending money on non essential luxery good's . Those lovely consumer products that get replaced every 1-3 years that none of us really need (who can do with out their mobile and MP3 players or even their pc's now ;) )

What about multipule cars , 2+ holidays a a year . Companies don;t want you buying less now do they . And that unter classn as well as teh middle class are all consumers outwaying even the super rich for products bought

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

The more you earn the more you pay is the basis of income tax, but I asked about VAT and why you say it hits the poorest the hardest and is unfair? Im not saying it isn't, it's just something I always assumed to be fair as every pays the same for good they CHOOSE to buy, but Im just interested in the rationale behind your point? If the poorer are buying less stuff then those better off than they are paying less VAT surely?

VAT is a regressive tax not a progressive one unlike income tax.Even the poor need to eat,clothe themselvesand their children etc.
Therefore it hits the poorer sections of the community harder than the rich.QED.As Jean Luc Goddard,the French filmaker famously said:"If **** was valuable the poor would be born without arses."

 

[number11]

VAT is a regressive tax not a progressive one unlike income tax.Even the poor need to eat,clothe themselvesand their children etc.
Therefore it hits the poorer sections of the community harder than the rich.QED.As Jean Luc Goddard,the French filmaker famously said:"If **** was valuable the poor would be born without arses."

You appear to have failed to deal with the posts made by Napster and Canvey about essentials being zero rated......

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

You appear to have failed to deal with the posts made by Napster and Canvey about essentials being zero rated......

VAT is a regressive tax, meaning the poor pay more, as a percentage of their income, than the rich.:thump:
The number of items which are zero rated is extremely limited:-
food
books, newspapers and magazines
young children's clothing and footwear
special exempt items - for example equipment for disabled people
That doesn't include travel,adult clothing,fuel etc

 

[Napster]

VAT is a regressive tax, meaning the poor pay more, as a percentage of their income, than the rich.:thump:
The number of items which are zero rated is extremely limited:-
food
books, newspapers and magazines
young children's clothing and footwear
special exempt items - for example equipment for disabled people
That doesn't include travel,adult clothing,fuel etc

So go camping, eat cheaper food (or grow your own), go cycling. There's always a choice.

 

[Napster]

ps fuel tax, alcohol duty, lots of taxes are regressive. You could argue that income tax isnt that progressive, because at the very top level, there are loopholes and ways to ensure you dont pay your full whack.