The Ashes - 2010-2011 Thread

[Yorkshire Blue]

Good stats on Kallis. I agree he is unlikely to ever be though of in the same bracket as a Tendulkar or Lara, his stats (even those you state above) when aligned to his bowling average is a superb all round effort. That for his batting alone it is debated whether he is the class of Tendulkar and Lara, or Ponting, Dravid, Jayawardene etc, and then he has perfectly respectable bowling figures as well (270 wickets at 32.01) and 166 catches in tests is remarkable. As I say, Im no fan of his style, but those figures are damn good.

I am always puzzled why Gilchrist seems to be the almost automatic choice for any select XI's when Sangakkara has such a good average (and Andy Flower as well). I guess as he has not played many long series against the big teams is is hard to be sure just how to rate him, but his figures are good. Don't know who Sri Lanka have lined up to play, but will be good to see them over hear for the start of the summer. Without the chucker I'm not sure how dangerous their bowling is going to be.

Gilchrist always gets the nod as the one who redefined the position. Before him England may have had Alec Stewart, but it wasn't a foregone conclusion between Stewart and Russell. Post-Gilchrist it's not even a (serious) debate: the keeper has to be able to bat to a high standard.

If that wasn't revolutionary enough, he also helped revolutionise batting styles with his counter-attacking style. It showed that you could succeed in test cricket if you blasted away. He helped pave the way for Sehwag, as he showed you could score heavily if you played your shots.

I can see why he's included, although personally I think Sangakkara is a superior batsman and when he had the gloves a superior keeper as well.

Sangakkara gets left out because (a) bias against the smaller nations (and on that point Warne < Murali); and (b) he's given up the gloves, so it's a bit of a cheat to include him.

ps Jayawardene is in that second tier as well IMO alongside Kallis and Dravid.

 

[Shrimper]

I reckon Cook will put on another 30 or so before getting out cheaply and Anderson will fall within the first couple of overs without much fight. We need Collingwood and Bell to both put in innings of 50+ each and then we should be safe.

 

[number11]

Gilchrist always gets the nod as the one who redefined the position. Before him England may have had Alec Stewart, but it wasn't a foregone conclusion between Stewart and Russell. Post-Gilchrist it's not even a (serious) debate: the keeper has to be able to bat to a high standard.

If that wasn't revolutionary enough, he also helped revolutionise batting styles with his counter-attacking style. It showed that you could succeed in test cricket if you blasted away. He helped pave the way for Sehwag, as he showed you could score heavily if you played your shots.

I can see why he's included, although personally I think Sangakkara is a superior batsman and when he had the gloves a superior keeper as well.

Sangakkara gets left out because (a) bias against the smaller nations (and on that point Warne < Murali); and (b) he's given up the gloves, so it's a bit of a cheat to include him.

ps Jayawardene is in that second tier as well IMO alongside Kallis and Dravid.

I'd have Flower in the personally (if only to up the Essex quota :))

To get things back on track / ashes related - how would you rate the current batters to the previous eras who suffered only ashes failure (against much stronger opposition). I know some players overlapped, but who would make a hybrid line up of Atherton, Butcher, Hussein, Hick, Thorpe, Ramprakash, Stewart (WK), compared to the current line up. Reputation wise, each at the peak of their careers, that should be a good line up, and they were all run machines at county cricket. Almost man for man their averages are lower than their contempories, but their contempories have it better when it comes to preparation, consistent selection and easy pickings opening bowlers.

Id take Stewarts keeping and batting over Prior (although Prior's glovework has been exceptionally good this series). I would definately have Thorpe in over Collingwood and the nuggety number 5, and would like to get Athers in as opener though I wouldnt know for who, but I reckon he would have liked to face the new ball attacks of the current era!

 

[number11]

I reckon Cook will put on another 30 or so before getting out cheaply and Anderson will fall within the first couple of overs without much fight. We need Collingwood and Bell to both put in innings of 50+ each and then we should be safe.

If Cook scores another 30 her will have scored 91....hardly cheaply! I think we need a combined 150 minimum combined from Colly, Bell and Prior, with whatever Cook can get hopefully taking us to a 100 lead. Id make the game evens at the moment but would prefer to be in Englands position at the moment.

 

[Shrimper]

Oh no, by cheaply I mean that he'll go for a shot that isn't worth trying and get out. I think a better word to use would've been stupidly, through an error. If we get around 350 + then we should be safe as the pitch will spin like hell for Swann in their 2nd innings.

 

[Dick Bate's Protege]

I'd really like to see Colly get a biggie tonight, think he's been an understated yet vital cog to the England machine since 2005 and it would be fitting if he (potentially) bows out on a high. My money is on a 150 stand between him and Bell, which in turn will all but secures the series victory.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I'd have Flower in the personally (if only to up the Essex quota :))

To get things back on track / ashes related - how would you rate the current batters to the previous eras who suffered only ashes failure (against much stronger opposition). I know some players overlapped, but who would make a hybrid line up of Atherton, Butcher, Hussein, Hick, Thorpe, Ramprakash, Stewart (WK), compared to the current line up. Reputation wise, each at the peak of their careers, that should be a good line up, and they were all run machines at county cricket. Almost man for man their averages are lower than their contempories, but their contempories have it better when it comes to preparation, consistent selection and easy pickings opening bowlers.

Id take Stewarts keeping and batting over Prior (although Prior's glovework has been exceptionally good this series). I would definately have Thorpe in over Collingwood and the nuggety number 5, and would like to get Athers in as opener though I wouldnt know for who, but I reckon he would have liked to face the new ball attacks of the current era!

Cracking question.

Thorpe's a definite.

I think I'd go for Atherton if his back was OK as well (either opening or slot him in at no.3). Stewart might make it as a batsman rather than keeper as well.

Atherton, Cook, Stewart, Hussain*, Pietersen, Thorpe, Prior if I'm picking my favourites but I'd struggle to objectively justify that line-up (and might have to re-jig the batting order) and would probably need Strauss and Trott in for the Essex duo.

 

[Shrimper]

There's the early Anderson wicket.

 

[Shrimpersarmy]

That was one of the worst attempts at cheating i've ever seen...!

Phil Hughes - Hang your head in shame!

 

[Bluesmanager]

Third time lucky for Booze, Colly caught on 13.

 

[Shrimper]

Bell put on 50 please. Collingwood was awful.

 

[number11]

That was one of the worst attempts at cheating i've ever seen...!

Phil Hughes - Hang your head in shame!

And worse still, Warne was trying to justify it when discussing it with Nasser and Gower and making out no one claimed the catch. So throwing ball in air and having a big celebration huddle/hug isnt trying to claim the catch.........

Still, glad Bell evened it out and show their is no more mr nice guy with him :o)

Last night SHOULD be the days play that secures us the ashes series win. Even if we don't add many more (though hopefully Prior, Bresnan and Swann can get an additional 50 minimum tomorrow) they are likely to be on par with us by close of play tomorrow. Therefore on the last day they are going to have to add a minimum of 180 to chase, in say 50 overs.....which will be a nervy couple of sessions for us. If we can bat til lunch tomorrow though then they will find it very hard to force the result and hopefully the couple of days in the field and another 500+ first innning total has knocked the stuffing out of them......

 

[Uncle Leo]

My money would be on Cook falling in the first half hour today. Hope I'm wrong though.

Good shout there.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Good shout there.

Happy to put the anti-kiss of death on him. What an innings. What a guy.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Thought it was pretty shameful from the Aussies to refuse to acknowledge Cook's ton after Hughes's attempt at cheating... It's not his fault Hughes tried to cheat him out of a wicket.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Thought it was pretty shameful from the Aussies to refuse to acknowledge Cook's ton after Hughes's attempt at cheating... It's not his fault Hughes tried to cheat him out of a wicket.

To be fair to Hughes, it only bounced once. I remember seeing Andy Bichel and team-mates try and claim a caught and bowled that bounced twice.

 

[BrettieAngell]

Cook you are a hero!!

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Of coures we all at Essex knew he'd do this to Australia

http://www.cricketarchive.com/Archive/Scorecards/83/83438.html

 

[Uncle Leo]

Happy to put the anti-kiss of death on him. What an innings. What a guy.

Watching him today made me think just how vital that innings against Pakistan at The Oval was. Had he failed in that Test, he'd either have been dropped or be going in to this series on a terrible run of form (in Tests). Of course, he may still have performed well in this series, but surely not this well. Great stuff.

 

[number11]

Watching him today made me think just how vital that innings against Pakistan at The Oval was. Had he failed in that Test, he'd either have been dropped or be going in to this series on a terrible run of form (in Tests). Of course, he may still have performed well in this series, but surely not this well. Great stuff.

It's lucky there was not a single viable alternative over the past year. Carberry never looked test class so was no real competition on Cook, and so when his form was poor the only real suggestion was to shift Trott up to open, and given how hard it has been to find a decent number 3 I don't think it was something they were seriously considering. Even if there was an alternative the main pressure would have come from the press as I think the selectors and management have shown they dont make knee jerk reactions and having identified the TYPE of player they want they show loyalty and back their judgment. So well done to all.

We do suddenly find ourselves with some decent back up now, with Morgan to come in for Colly (though will be interesting who has the better one day series) as well as the likes of Bopara, Lyle, Taylor for batting slots (Id like to see Hildreth make runs for another county as his figures are going to be inflated by batting at Taunton), and a first choice bowling line up of Anderson, Broad, Tremlett and Swann, and back up of Bresnan, Finn, Shazad and Panesar, with Rashid hopefully getting involved at some point. Lets hope injuries are kinder to this squad than 2005.