Teaching Assistants - no good!

[callan]

Impossible to generalise, I know St Christophers has very small class sizes and about 4 LSAs to a class of 12 or so children plus a teacher, but you said NOT them. All I can tell you is in our school, which is approx 350 pupils, we have 12 TAs who do a mix of hours (some do just mornings, some do 2,3 or 4 days a week) and 4 LSAs. In a similarly sized school in Southend you might well find a completely different workforce.

so they dont target x amount of lsa's to a specific amount of statemented children?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Those who can't do - teach
Those who can't teach - become teaching assistants.

"Those who can't teach,teach teachers", as we used to say at Teacher Training College.Which is what I was doing in July ...again!:smiles:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

6 weeks of holidays and they need a teacher training day first day back what is that about.

It's all INSET and PRESET days these days, old chap.Do try and keep up with the jargon.:winking:

 

[pickledseal]

so they target x amount of lsa's to a specific amount of statemented children?

A statement of sen comes with a specific number of hours for lsa provision.

 

[Hazey]

I worked as an LSA last year during my year off from education, ironic that I ended up working in education! In the class I worked with there were 3 children with statements, which allows them one to one support. In that class there were two of us along with the teacher. The problem was that one of the children had some very bad behavioural problems and if another child spoke to him in a manner he didn't like his first reaction was to punch and kick them, so it was very important that he was never left on his own for too long, which is difficult when you need to encourage independence. I found that rather than just try to improve their work in school, it was perhaps more important to show them how to make friends, how to get along with people and how to talk to someone. That may seen ridiculous to some but he really needed it, especially when you consider that without the extra help this lad could progress to secondary school with no social skills, and secondary schools can be harsh places if you don't "fit in". I think whether or not TA's and LSA's are shown to help improve overall grades, they certainly give children the extra support they really need, and the proudest moment of my time working with them was seeing this lad playing with a group of friends we'd helped him to integrate with.

Saying that, this school had a large amount of children with statements, so the ratio of LSA's was quite a lot higher than I'd imagine most schools would have, and to a certain extent I'd agree it probably wasn't cost effective to have quite so many.

I think I might have rambled a bit, just got in from a highly disappointing England game and thought a nice mini essay might cheer me up :smile:

 

[OldBlueLady]

6 weeks of holidays and they need a teacher training day first day back what is that about.

Teaching staff have to have compulsory Child Protection training annually and I think in many schools, this is done on the first day back, along with introducing new staff in a relaxed atmosphere and then preparing work in year groups.

Besides which there are a statutory number of inset days (5) which have to be taken during term time.

 

[osymandus]

I worked as an LSA last year during my year off from education, ironic that I ended up working in education! In the class I worked with there were 3 children with statements, which allows them one to one support. In that class there were two of us along with the teacher. The problem was that one of the children had some very bad behavioural problems and if another child spoke to him in a manner he didn't like his first reaction was to punch and kick them, so it was very important that he was never left on his own for too long, which is difficult when you need to encourage independence. I found that rather than just try to improve their work in school, it was perhaps more important to show them how to make friends, how to get along with people and how to talk to someone. That may seen ridiculous to some but he really needed it, especially when you consider that without the extra help this lad could progress to secondary school with no social skills, and secondary schools can be harsh places if you don't "fit in". I think whether or not TA's and LSA's are shown to help improve overall grades, they certainly give children the extra support they really need, and the proudest moment of my time working with them was seeing this lad playing with a group of friends we'd helped him to integrate with.

Saying that, this school had a large amount of children with statements, so the ratio of LSA's was quite a lot higher than I'd imagine most schools would have, and to a certain extent I'd agree it probably wasn't cost effective to have quite so many.

I think I might have rambled a bit, just got in from a highly disappointing England game and thought a nice mini essay might cheer me up :smile:

On a side and personal note, kids with learning difficulties (As Dyslexia ) tend to learn their different and develop low self esteem becuase of it , the one to one support helps them rebuild their confidence , dealing with normal growing up and social interaction can be bad enough without added issues on top (all learning difficulties there ;))

 

[callan]

A statement of sen comes with a specific number of hours for lsa provision.

what i'm driving at here...is what happens within a school where the hours on kids statements outweighs those deliverable by lLSA'S?

 

[Berrichonne shrimper]

On a side and personal note, kids with learning difficulties (As Dyslexia ) tend to learn their different and develop low self esteem becuase of it , the one to one support helps them rebuild their confidence , dealing with normal growing up and social interaction can be bad enough without added issues on top (all learning difficulties there ;))

On another side and personal note i feel people with learning probs tend to hide behind them for the rest of thier life using them as a excuse why they cant do x y or z,if you can teach a dog to beg then you can teach yourself to do anything at all,anything,having funny eyebrows has never held me back in life.

 

[Onion_Bag_Dave]

HLTA's Higher Level teaching assistant's are basically an excuse for the school to pay basically nothing more than a standard TA, but to get them to do more stuff.

 

[osymandus]

On another side and personal note i feel people with learning probs tend to hide behind them for the rest of thier life using them as a excuse why they cant do x y or z,if you can teach a dog to beg then you can teach yourself to do anything at all,anything,having funny eyebrows has never held me back in life.

Your ignorance of neuroscience/psychology/animal husbandry is not mine or anyone else's problem.

 

[londonblue]

I love having an extra pair of hands, and eyes, in the room.

Doesn't always work though does it? I mean, most linesmen are rubbish!

 

[Napster]

Doesn't always work though does it? I mean, most linesmen are rubbish!

You're so unPC - referees' assistants now.

 

[Hazey]

On a side and personal note, kids with learning difficulties (As Dyslexia ) tend to learn their different and develop low self esteem becuase of it , the one to one support helps them rebuild their confidence , dealing with normal growing up and social interaction can be bad enough without added issues on top (all learning difficulties there ;))

Yeah I completely agree, it's so easy for them to feel like an outsider, which is why I saw the most important part of the job as helping them to integrate with a group of friends. I used to have him choose someone from the class and gradually build a group up from that.

 

[Emu]

what i'm driving at here...is what happens within a school where the hours on kids statements outweighs those deliverable by lLSA'S?

I am also an LSA and this is the case at the mo in the Secondary school i work in. The simple answer to that is that there is often more than 1 statement in one class and depending on the students needs there can be 2 LSA's in the class supporting to ensure the statements as well as School Action Plus and School Action students get the support they need also.

 

[osymandus]

Yeah I completely agree, it's so easy for them to feel like an outsider, which is why I saw the most important part of the job as helping them to integrate with a group of friends. I used to have him choose someone from the class and gradually build a group up from that.

Yes , the smallest thing (using the example of say not being able to tie your shoe laces ) , can mark you as odd and outside and bring about a lack of self confidence , which can then hide talents the child actually has ;) .

 

[OldBlueLady]

HLTA's Higher Level teaching assistant's are basically an excuse for the school to pay basically nothing more than a standard TA, but to get them to do more stuff.

HLTAs wages worked out approx 50p an hour more than ordinary TAs, which is pathetic hence the lack of volunteers in many cases considering the extra responsibilities.

what i'm driving at here...is what happens within a school where the hours on kids statements outweighs those deliverable by lLSA'S?

Ok, lower schools (infants, juniors and primarys) work on a 5 hour day in the classroom, so the maximum funding by the LA for a child in KS1 and 2 is for 25 hours. If the school considers this is insufficient and they need one to one support during break and lunch time then they may fund extra hours or fractions of hours themselves. The first child I worked with, I was paid to be there 10 minutes early in the morning to ensure he arrived in class settled, and I also covered him at break time so although his statement was for 15 hours, I was paid for 17.5 hours with the extra 2.5 met out of school staffing budget (SEN). The teacher coped with him on her own during the afternoon as he did not have a full statement.

I've also worked with a child on a full statement (25 hours) and been paid an extra half an hour a day because our hours do not include time for registration and end of day (we finish 10 minutes before the children, which is often a problem time for some). So there, I hope, is your answer...it is within the school's ability to fund extra time if the LA does not cover it.

 

[Crabby Shrimper]

On another side and personal note i feel people with learning probs tend to hide behind them for the rest of thier life using them as a excuse why they cant do x y or z,if you can teach a dog to beg then you can teach yourself to do anything at all,anything,having funny eyebrows has never held me back in life.

In some cases maybe, but as someone who had (has) learning difficulties, I can vouch for what Osy's saying.

 

[ibwiajwa]

So why not train before the holibobs end? (sp)

Because they're called holidays. The clue's in the name. I worked for a week of my holiday anyway. And if you don't think we need the holidays, try teaching today's teens for the rest of the year, dealing with all of the social problems that our society inflicts on us......

 

[Berrichonne shrimper]

Because they're called holidays. The clue's in the name. I worked for a week of my holiday anyway. And if you don't think we need the holidays, try teaching today's teens for the rest of the year, dealing with all of the social problems that our society inflicts on us......

Hell no thanks,just wondered if its only 1 day why they dont do it before school re-opens,not a slur on yourself.