Syria air strikes

[londonblue]

Surely you mean the PLP "might have had enough MP's to stop the bombing". if there'd been a three-line whip in today's vote.

As it is, I hope the 50 or so Labour MP's expected to vote with the government later today, will be held to account (if things go wrong in Syria,as I expect them to) in the future.

All MPs can be held to account. The ones that vote against war should also be if there are any attacks in this country that can be stopped by attacking ISIS now.

(See, you can argue this both ways.)

It's not obvious that any future attacks on the UK are the result of bombing raids now because it could also be argued that bombing raids now may actually reduce that likelihood, or even stop some actual attacks taking place. The difference is, we'll never know because (as we've discussed before) you can't prove a negative.

Unfortunately life isn't so black and white.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

All MPs can be held to account. The ones that vote against war should also be if there are any attacks in this country that can be stopped by attacking ISIS now.

(See, you can argue this both ways.)

It's not obvious that any future attacks on the UK are the result of bombing raids now because it could also be argued that bombing raids now may actually reduce that likelihood, or even stop some actual attacks taking place. The difference is, we'll never know because (as we've discussed before) you can't prove a negative.

Unfortunately life isn't so black and white.

Yet you denied that the London bombers-as mentioned by Ken Livingstone on last week's QT-clearly attributed the war on Iraq as the reason for their actions.

Yoo can't have it both ways!

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

I am not sure if bombing ISIS will achieve the defeat of the ideology, unlikely really.
BUT doing nothing offensive against them IS likely to allow them to grow and spread.

 

[rigsby]

Not murdering innocent people who then begin to hate the very people that are supposed to be helping them would be a start.

By murdering I assume you mean bombing. So fine we wont bomb but how are you going to help the innocent people in Syria, Paris and London. Drones... there far more accurate and can target individuals. Support Assad, support the rebels, troops on the ground, tighter borders, bans on travel, arrest preachers of hate, how about some of the guest speakers at our university....you know the ones that hate women.

Please lets not pull the Corbyn Duvet over our heads and say talking would be best and claim that's the only thing that has ever worked.

 

[MK Shrimper]

By murdering I assume you mean bombing. So fine we wont bomb but how are you going to help the innocent people in Syria, Paris and London. Drones... there far more accurate and can target individuals. Support Assad, support the rebels, troops on the ground, tighter borders, bans on travel, arrest preachers of hate, how about some of the guest speakers at our university....you know the ones that hate women.

Please lets not pull the Corbyn Duvet over our heads and say talking would be best and claim that's the only thing that has ever worked.

I don't claim to be any kind of expert. I've heard those that are state that indiscriminate bombing in Syria will make the situation worse. And of course, like any other evidence that's provided to any Government they will ignore it if it doesn't fit their wider plans and how the voting public are convinced is the right course of action.

So Rigsby, if we bomb bomb and bomb again and another Paris happens on the streets of Europe or America (lets hope not but I have a horrible feeling it's just a matter of time) what then?

 

[rigsby]

I don't claim to be any kind of expert. I've heard those that are state that indiscriminate bombing in Syria will make the situation worse. And of course, like any other evidence that's provided to any Government they will ignore it if it doesn't fit their wider plans and how the voting public are convinced is the right course of action.

So Rigsby, if we bomb bomb and bomb again and another Paris happens on the streets in Europe (lets hope not but I have a horrible feeling it's just a matter of time) what then?

AS I thought despite all your posts telling people how wrong they are you actually have not one single idea or opinion about how to deal with the whole situation. That's why the Labour party may lose Oldham

 

[MK Shrimper]

AS I thought despite all your posts telling people how wrong they are you actually have not one single idea or opinion about how to deal with the whole situation. That's why the Labour party may lose Oldham

I have answered your question, you've sidestepped mine.

 

[mrsblue]

Imagine if we were embarking into WW2,yet we had 2 million Germans living in Britain,wouldn't that scenario be foolish as surely a couple of those Germans would try and seek revenge on us all,probably even more than 2!

We have had Governments who haven't got any clue on anything,they in the main are posh ex schoolboys who all live in a different universe to us,yet they make the decisions which cost us mere mortals whilst they carry on with their privileged
lifestyle.

 

[rigsby]

I have answered your question, you've sidestepped mine.

No you haven't.... Standard left wing reaction, waffled for a few lines and then answered with a question about of all things trying to prove a negative....now who was it that said that can't be done

 

[MK Shrimper]

No you haven't.... Standard left wing reaction, waffled for a few lines and then answered with a question about of all things trying to prove a negative....now who was it that said that can't be done

I don't claim to be any kind of expert.

You obviously are Rigsby......or just full of wind? I'm thinking the latter.

And done because there is really no point "debating" with you. Onto ignore you go.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

I don't claim to be any kind of expert. I've heard those that are state that indiscriminate bombing in Syria will make the situation worse. And of course, like any other evidence that's provided to any Government they will ignore it if it doesn't fit their wider plans and how the voting public are convinced is the right course of action.

So Rigsby, if we bomb bomb and bomb again and another Paris happens on the streets of Europe or America (lets hope not but I have a horrible feeling it's just a matter of time) what then?

I have highlighted the most important point you made; I don't believe the RAF will carry out anything that is not sanctioned and specific targeting.
I have serious doubts about the Russian missions, I don't put much faith in the French or US to consider who/what they dump their missiles and bombs on.
I would not be under-estimating the work of GCHQ and their satellite stations (especially in Cyprus).
And don't forget these munitions cost a small fortune so the M o D will be careful where it uses them.

 

[MK Shrimper]

I have highlighted the most important point you made; I don't believe the RAF will carry out anything that is not sanctioned and specific targeting.
I have serious doubts about the Russian missions, I don't put much faith in the French or US to consider who/what they dump their missiles and bombs on.
I would not be under-estimating the work of GCHQ and their satellite stations (especially in Cyprus).
And don't forget these munitions cost a small fortune so the M o D will be careful where it uses them.

*deleted***

 

[rigsby]

I don't claim to be any kind of expert.

You obviously are Rigsby......or just full of wind? I'm thinking the latter.

And done because there is really no point "debating" with you. Onto ignore you go.

Ok.... I'll give you time to grow a spine

 

[londonblue]

Yet you denied that the London bombers-as mentioned by Ken Livingstone on last week's QT-clearly attributed the war on Iraq as the reason for their actions.

Yoo can't have it both ways!

Eh? I'm saying exactly the opposite. KL was blaming Blair for a war, and by extension the 7/7 bombings. I'm saying you can't say that because you don't know they didn't stop other attacks, and moreover, the attacks had nothing to do with the war.

Moreover, if you read the independent article you'll see that the terrorists that carried out the bombings made videos that contradict what KL said.

Either way, I've just been watching a small part of the debate live on TV, and it has restored my faith in the political system of this country. There's no shouting, there's no waiving of papers, there's no insults, there's just a group of about 600 people having a very serious and intelligent debate about a very important subject, and everyone is showing everyone else the respect they deserve.

When it really matters our MPs really do it right.

 

[SonicShrimper]

I'll remember that when Fallout 4 becomes our new reality...

 

[mrsblue]

Government estimate there are 3000 who live amongst us who wish to destroy our way of life,700 are on the watch list .The Government know exactly who they are,why not Nick them all and be done with it .

Dropping bombs is dumb.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

Yes but I'm sure William Edward Hickson wasn't talking about the (accidental?) death of innocent men, women and children.

Why the question mark after accidental? do you think pilots want to kill and maim innocent men women and children. Get a grip of yourself.

 

[Benfleet A1]

Imagine if we were embarking into WW2,yet we had 2 million Germans living in Britain,wouldn't that scenario be foolish as surely a couple of those Germans would try and seek revenge on us all,probably even more than 2!

We have had Governments who haven't got any clue on anything,they in the main are posh ex schoolboys who all live in a different universe to us,yet they make the decisions which cost us mere mortals whilst they carry on with their privileged
lifestyle.

Internment camps were used during WW2, Isle of Man I believe. Germans and Italians saw alot of the war out like that. I doubt the same will happen this time around.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Ok.... I'll give you time to grow a spine

I'd suggest you calm down a bit.
We aren't changing the world on here it's just a discussion between people who support the same football team. If someone has taken the trouble to reply to your post with an opinion rather than an insult it makes this place run better if you reply in a similar way.

 

[mrsblue]

Internment camps were used during WW2, Isle of Man I believe. Germans and Italians saw alot of the war out like that. I doubt the same will happen this time around.

Exactly !


Can you imagine if British bombs kill innocent relatives to people already living here.