Post-Match Thread and Ratings Southend United 1 - 2 Fleetwood Town

[rayleigh dan]

Let me guess where you sit.........

Go on then ... I'm waiting :winking:

 

[Freedom for Tooting]

Maybe not, but the majority sitting near to me wanted him out! I believe the majority want Brown out, you disagree, let's just leave it there otherwise we'll be here all night!

My dog has fleas
My dog scratches
I saw a dog scratch
All dogs have fleas
Obvious. End of.Fact.
Trumptastic logic incorporated.

 

[Brett Angle]

Obviously not the same one as you :smile:.

For what it's worth I thought Wabo showed real energy and sparked an overall improvement in the last ten minutes. He had one of our only decent shots on target, and did well to win the corner that we scored from. I thought all four that provoked your 'give me strength' did less in 90 minutes.

You support Brown, that is clear. I don't, we'll just have to agree to disagree I guess.

this isn't about whether we support Brown or not it is the value some supporters are putting on the individual contribution of some of the players. it feels like a lot of supporters are allowing their hearts to rule their heads on here tonight.

 

[RayleighShrimp]

Oh and it’s difficult to build any confidence on a pitch like that! You can’t play football at pace when you have to take a touch to control it first just so it doesn’t bobble away. Away teams know this and pressure pressure pressure us into giving the ball away.

sorry I don’t agree, Shrewsbury passed perfectly on our pitch. We went (as per normal) long ball... everyone will agree.

 

[GBJ]

in terms of point one I am just pointing out that Shrimperzone does not necessarily represent the views of all Southend fans and indeed, as with any poll, those against the status quo usually feel more compelled to express their disdain than those that are for maintaining the status quo . . if there is irony in that then you will have to explain where.

The Zone has long been a small, but relatively accurate indicator of the larger majorities feelings towards the club & the topical goings-on. It's very rare that such a significant amount of members agree on anything around here, so when that moment occurs, it's not beyond reason to say that the feeling is probably shared with the "voiceless" majority.

In this case, I'm confident in the belief that if you conducted a poll inside Roots Hall, you'd see a similar result to the 86% of Zoners who voted for Brown's departure.

However, from your own admission, you're basing your opinion that fans don't share the same view as 86% of Shrimperzone, on the fact that not too many people joined in with the anti-Brown chants. This doesn't mean they don't agree with the chants (or at least the sentiment of them) though.

The irony is that you said my opinion - that most Southend fans wanted Brown out - was fake news. It isn't. Saying it's fake news, is fake news.

in respect of Messrs Corr, Hunt, Worrall etc I think those examples weaken your argument rather than strengthen it. When the club signed the likes of Ranger, Cox, McCloughlin, Kightly, Ferdinand and Kiernan to replace those guys I didn't hear too many people lamenting their departures or complaining that the club had not traded up. Quite the contrary. The people you mention were either out the team, coming to the end of their careers and/or looking for more contract security/game-time than we were prepared to guarantee them. I didn't lament any of their departures and whilst, with the benefit of hindsight, some of our new signings have not worked out in the way we all hoped I'm pretty confident with the likes of Messrs Corr, Hunt, Worrall etc in the team last year we could well be plying our trade in L2 already. They have hardly set the world alight themselves since they left us have they?

Weakens my arguement? They are PROOF of my argument :hilarious:

It's totally irrelevant whether they were good players, or if we've upgraded or not. My point was, these players had run-ins with the management & didn't want to be here anymore. At least 3-4 of them have gone on to state that sentiment publicly.

I can't remember exactly when, either last season, or the one before that, we went to Rochdale(?) and got turned over, and Brown kept the players in the changing room for nearly 2 hours and gave them an almighty dressing down. No surprise that results & form dropped after that & we went on a horrendous run of defeats.

Brown himself said earlier this season in a post-match interview, the players weren't playing for him.

What do you think this team meeting was all about on Wednesday? To clear the air & try and pull together in the right direction.

If you think back, similar situations arose at Preston & Hull.

What it all proves is, this manager has a habit of rubbing players up the wrong way, to the point they don't want to be here. That's poor man-management & even worse when you consider that some of these/them players were his signings.

As I said, we've gone from being a play-off chasing team, to a relegation fodder team overnight. There has to be a reason for that. Either every player has lost their ability to play football, or there's something deeper.

 

[Shrimper]

What injury did Turner pick up, anyone know?

 

[Brett Angle]

Maybe not, but the majority sitting near to me wanted him out! I believe the majority want Brown out, you disagree, let's just leave it there otherwise we'll be here all night!

You believe what you want to believe. Think most of the anti-Brown brigade do exactly that.

 

[RayleighShrimp]

Very strange by Phil today, and I've backed him. Should have learnt his lesson with playing Woody when injured, who has been dire in the middle because of injury. But no, he has Two centre backs carrying injuries, and plays them both. Turner has his knee strapped, which may or may not have led to him pulling his calf during the game. Either way, he obviously has knee trouble. Ferdinand is to one side before the game stretching and stuff, and does not look right. Big shock, they both have to come off. Then we have no proper dominant centre back. White is still a right back playing as a centre back. He looked good at first when played there, but now he's not so good in that role getting caught out and passed by strikers, and has become a hoof ball merchant in possession. So we had Two left backs and Two right backs near the back, shocking. Playing injured players does no one any good. When will he learn? Now Turner and Ferdinand are out, which puts us even more in the doo doo. I like Ferdinand as a player, but he's one that can't play with 70% fitness. Tims was a great player, one of the first on the team sheet years ago, but sadly giving the ball away too often and can't run fast enough back when he does, like he used to. Add all that to our striking and midfield problems, then staying up will be fantastic.
I can't say there was lack of effort today, but the confidence, quality and goal threat wasn't there. Kightly tried much harder than usual and McLaughlin ran himself into the ground.

I know you go to boots and laces, have you seen our no2 coach (defender) teaching the strikers how to volley, it’s mad.

 

[Danshrimper]

'Vast majority' - sweeping statement ... and your evidence is?

The only people deluded are the people who are putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 5 because it suits their argument. YOUR interpretation of Oxley giving the fans the thumbs up is a case in point.

And where’s your evidence against it? No concrete ‘evidence’ can be given either way and even if it could you wouldn’t believe it because it would go against Brown.But the evidence that there is points to the majority wanting Brown out rather than in. Such as the poll on here earlier this week, comments on social media and a general consensus that it’s time from Brown to go amongst everyone I heard discuss it today in the West Stand. Do you really think the 88% or whatever it was that voted on here for Brown to go is really that different to the opinion of the fanbase in general? And singing Oxley do you want Brown out and him then giving a thumbs up in response can surely only be interpreted in one way.

And I’m the deluded one for refusing to act as though everything is fine and Phil Brown can do no wrong after 8 defeats in 9 games whilst we sit 2 points above the relegation zones with a very tough next few games coming up.

 

[GBJ]

and their first goalscorer wouldn't have been on the pitch had the referee done his job properly. Fine lines indeed.

look we could go on like this all night. You have made your mind up in terms of the way forward and you are absolutely entitled to do so. Just remember for over 100 years this club has spent what than 5 (?) outside the third and fourth tier. Therefore simply competing in the third tier which I'm 100% sure we will be again next season is a not insignificant achievement and we would all do well to remember that. I'm sure the likes of Torquay, Tranmere, Coventry, Leyton Orient etc would swap places with us at the moment. Crisis what crisis.

And equally, you're entitled to your opinion.

For me, Football has to have an entertainment value. Some of the football under Sturrock was painful to watch, but we got results. We're playing similar (if not worse) football now, but the results are miles away.

As a fan of Southend, we all know the score by now, we don't expect greatness, & we know that we don't have a divine right to win games. But If you can justify 50-odd minutes without a shot on goal, and then just 4 over the course of 90 minutes, you're easier pleased than me.

 

[Danshrimper]

You believe what you want to believe. Think most of the anti-Brown brigade do exactly that.

You talk about the anti-Brown brigade as though it’s still the small minority of people that have had it against him since he came here. I’ve been a supporter of Brown until a few weeks ago but he’s not up to the job anymore. You’re the one in the minority now. The Brown-in brigade who think Phil Brown can never do anything wrong, we could lose the next 10 games and you’d probably still be on here defending him. It’s unbelievable.

 

[LBBlue]

What injury did Turner pick up, anyone know?

According to CP a pulled muscle in his calf.

 

[RayleighShrimp]

You talk about the anti-Brown brigade as though it’s still the small minority of people that have had it against him since he came here. I’ve been a supporter of Brown until a few weeks ago but he’s not up to the job anymore. You’re the one in the minority now. The Brown-in brigade who think Phil Brown can never do anything wrong, we could lose the next 10 games and you’d probably still be on here defending him. It’s unbelievable.

yes it’s the people who go I love the club, I support the club whatever coybb, if you support brown, you are not a football lover, full stop. We play long ball, we have a players that are better than that, we still play long ball....Why!

 

[RayleighShrimp]

You talk about the anti-Brown brigade as though it’s still the small minority of people that have had it against him since he came here. I’ve been a supporter of Brown until a few weeks ago but he’s not up to the job anymore. You’re the one in the minority now. The Brown-in brigade who think Phil Brown can never do anything wrong, we could lose the next 10 games and you’d probably still be on here defending him. It’s unbelievable.

yes it’s the people who go I love the club, I support the club whatever coybb, if you support brown, you are not a football lover, full stop. We play long ball, we have a players that are better than that, we still play long ball....Why!

 

[rigsby]

sorry I don’t agree, Shrewsbury passed perfectly on our pitch. We went (as per normal) long ball... everyone will agree.

No they didn't. They have some real good strengths as a team but passing on our pitch wasn't one of them. Haven't seen any team lately pass well on our pitch. Yes we have lost 3 out of 4 at RH but Oxley hasn't actually had a lot to do in those games.

The big difference today has been ignored by everyone so far......Paddy Madden.... Showed great skill and strength for both goals. After that he then played some quality first time passes when they were on top.

 

[Brett Angle]

It's totally irrelevant whether they were good players, or if we've upgraded or not. My point was, these players had run-ins with the management & didn't want to be here anymore.

:cry:

Listen it's getting late and I'm sorry that I still feel your argument has got more holes in it than today's pitch - but before lights out let me just pick you up on one of the points you make.

Re-read what you have written above. Can you not see one of the glaring flaws in your argument? Are you really suggesting that it is imperative we keep our good AND not-so-good players happy, avoid confrontation with management and worry about the fact that the latter might want to leave? Sounds like a recipe for a race to the bottom if you ask me.

 

[RayleighShrimp]

No they didn't. They have some real good strengths as a team but passing on our pitch wasn't one of them. Haven't seen any team lately pass well on our pitch. Yes we have lost 3 out of 4 at RH but Oxley hasn't actually had a lot to do in those games.

The big difference today has been ignored by everyone so far......Paddy Madden.... Showed great skill and strength for both goals. After that he then played some quality first time passes when they were on top.

I don’t agree with you, Shrews passed it better than us, way better, we went long ball. Ok don’t skip or side track, are you a Brown is good or a Brown is bad, I don’t think you will answer directly, deviation will be activated, captains bar.

 

[RayleighShrimp]

No they didn't. They have some real good strengths as a team but passing on our pitch wasn't one of them. Haven't seen any team lately pass well on our pitch. Yes we have lost 3 out of 4 at RH but Oxley hasn't actually had a lot to do in those games.

The big difference today has been ignored by everyone so far......Paddy Madden.... Showed great skill and strength for both goals. After that he then played some quality first time passes when they were on top.

what? Ferdinand did not mess up? Twice? Is this double rose tinted? I wonder if you were having refreshments or similar...

 

[rigsby]

I don’t agree with you, Shrews passed it better than us, way better, we went long ball. Ok don’t skip or side track, are you a Brown is good or a Brown is bad, I don’t think you will answer directly, deviation will be activated, captains bar.

Well I pleased you can now post under another name...I've missed you :winking:

 

[GBJ]

And I’m the deluded one for refusing to act as though everything is fine and Phil Brown can do no wrong after 8 defeats in 9 games whilst we sit 2 points above the relegation zones with a very tough next few games coming up.

It's been proven time & time again, that a new manager coming into a club can invigorate a team during that initial honeymoon period, and gain the right results, which could turn out to be crucial.

IMO, based on the remaining fixtures we've got, especially between now & February, we're on a hiding to nothing. Injuries galore, a team devoid of confidence & a manager who's more focused on the oppositions tactics, rather than playing to his own teams strengths, doesn't add up to a whole lot of success.

The one single trick we've got left, the one ace up the sleeve that might save us, is to bring in a new face, get us up the table & then reassess the situation once we're safe.

Under Brown, we will be back in the basement next season. And I've been a supporter of Brown up until the last few weeks.