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Post-Match Thread and Ratings Southend United 1-1 Rochdale

I agree with your marks except Hopper, Coker and Bridge were 5's at best.
I think Bridgey is getting really hard done by by our supporters at the moment. He's been our most consistent creative force over several seasons and has now been well and truly worked out by most teams on scouting missions. That's not his fault. He's not getting the support that Fonguck used to give him, and is usually doubled up on.

FWIW, I thought he worked hard defensively yesterday, and that the defensive side of his game has improved a lot. I also thought Hopper worked harder than Coker or Husin.
 
I’d have thought we could pick up a player with those sort of attributes for around £5-10 million. We’ll just have to fight off interest from the likes of Leeds, Forest, Wolves and so on.
How much did Parillin cost do you think?

I was hoping you might realise they are out there and dont cost a bomb , Its helpful to watch quite a few lower league games, No doubt you have
 
Bit of a late response because I am struggling to analyse yesterday. I didn't think Rochdale were that great and we were definitely better than the last 2 Saturdays and deserved the point.

Substitutions strange although they changed the game the constant tinkering with the formation is hard to fathom. Often in the middle 60 minutes we reverted very quickly to our standard sideways backwards football and then suddenly remembered we need to be at least in the opposition half to stand a chance of scoring.

Biggest positives for me was seeing Nick's clearances and how many times he set up possible attacks instead of our usual 20 passes across the pitch before hoofing or losing the ball, Bonne's impact and Parillon looks good.
 
Last edited:
I think it will interesting to see what happens when Miley returns.

I suspect we might see

Hayes
Gus Harry Goodliffe Ralph Bridge
Miley Morton
LCP
Hopper/Bonne Kendall

I do wonder though if this would best suit our strength

Hayes
Gus Golding Goodliffe Ralph
Miley Morton
Bonne LCP Kendall
Hopper

Won’t happen as 4 at the back is not the way it seems
I’m a fan of the 4 2 3 1 with this team, but would swap Walker for Kendall at the moment,
 
I’m a fan of the 4 2 3 1 with this team, but would swap Walker for Kendall at the moment,
I was really unimpressed with Walker pretty much the whole season. Apart from some tap ins, failed to see what player he was.

However, since he has come back from his injury he has really changed my mindset. He is physical, aggressive, a great ball carrier and is getting shots away too. Very hungry.

Long may this form continue, think being part of a team on the front foot suits his style.
 
I don't think it's kendals control that's the problem. He hasn't got bonne or hoppers body strength or bulk to hold players off when taking his first touch. The nudges and barges have a bigger effect on him.
If anyone's watched akinfenwa (the extremist example), when he used to plant himself in the box and wait for the ball to him. He couldn't be budged and despite having little speed or agility he scored and set up lots. I guess what I'm saying is, we need to use the skills he has as effectively as we can. Running in behind for through balls and pressing. Leave the hold up play for hopper and bonne and even walker.
 
I was the one who posted the photo of 5 at the back when Rochdale had the ball in their edge of their own area which happened many times in the first half. Second half was different. Can you filter your stats to show where our players were with or without the ball and first and second half positions? Otherwise just like my photo you can use the stat to suit your own argument. However I'm not sure what tactic that image would refer to as a formation? Maybe you could tell me what it would translate to?

FYI Spurs Pedro Porro heatmap shows him in Man U's final third most of today.....he's still playing right back!

we very clearly play a 352 or a 343 and have done throughout Kev's tenure.

the legitimate complaint i think people have is when the 3 at the back sit there to defend a single striker - what i don't think we see as much as we used to is the wide centre backs pushing on to create overloads in wide areas. my guess is that that's due to a combination of:

a) our current squad not being as good at it (specifically Taylor is not as comfortable on the ball as say, Shaun Hobson, despite having played in midfield a lot in his career)
b) Ralph not having the legs to get up and down anymore or being asked to be more defensive to make up for Bridge's weaknesses in that area
c) the absence of Miley as a defensively minded #6 who would cover gaps left by a CB pushing on.
 
I think Bridgey is getting really hard done by by our supporters at the moment. He's been our most consistent creative force over several seasons and has now been well and truly worked out by most teams on scouting missions. That's not his fault. He's not getting the support that Fonguck used to give him, and is usually doubled up on.

FWIW, I thought he worked hard defensively yesterday, and that the defensive side of his game has improved a lot. I also thought Hopper worked harder than Coker or Husin.
i thought the same thing about his defensive work - he still gets picked on a lot by opposition teams but is a lot better 1-on-1 with a winger than he used to be be.
 
IT was hard to know whether or not Southend United should have been happy with a share of the spoils against Rochdale on Saturday.

Read more on this story


Help with Echo links
19098156.jpg

Share of the spoils - for Southend United against Rochdale (Image: FOCUS IMAGES)


By Chris Phillips. Chief sports reporter.

IT was hard to know whether or not Southend United should have been happy with a share of the spoils against Rochdale on Saturday.

Having gone a goal down and been enforced to endure spells without the ball, Blues did well to battle back and pick up a point.

However, the Shrimpers were well on top during the closing stages and came within a whisker of netting an injury time winner when Josh Walker’s shot drifted just wide of the right post.

Arguably, any neutral watching on would have seen a draw as a fair result given the way the game went.

Both teams will certainly feel as though they could and should have won at Roots Hall and that they both had opportunities to have secured all three points.

Devante Rodney was the main man where that was concerned for Rochdale as, either side of his well-taken header which gave the visitors the lead, he wasted good opportunities to have put his side out of sight.

Blues had their own chances with a cross-shot from Oli Coker hitting the top of the crossbar and Gus Scott-Morriss having an effort cleared off the line before an own goal from Liam Hogan ultimately saw the game end all square.

Southend went into the game looking to build on an impressive 3-1 win against Halifax Town on Tuesday night and slightly altered their shape in a bid to make that happen.

No team in the division probably plays as many passes or has more possession than Rochdale and the Shrimpers changed things up to make them more difficult to break down.

A three man midfield was put in place to make Blues harder to play through and to also ensure Kevin Maher’s side could press properly when Dale continually passed it out from the back.

Charley Kendall was also pushed into a more central attacking role to ensure his pace could cause maximum damage against a side defending high up the pitch.

Everyone will have their own ideas and favoured formations but a system listed on paper pans out far differently during the actual course of the game while they often chop and change too.

For instance, Blues started with three up top against Halifax before dropping Josh Walker into a number 10 after just 15 minutes while Noor Husin actually played in a higher average position than Tom Hopper at the weekend.

Put simply, perhaps we are all slightly guilty of heaping too much importance on systems these days and I put myself into that category too.

It does make for interesting discussion but there does feel to be a slight anxiousness or nervousness around the Shrimpers right now – especially at Roots Hall.

Maybe my interpretation is somewhat misguided but things constantly seem rather on edge and Blues boss Maher was clearly taken aback by the booing which greeted his triple substitutions midway through the second half.

As it was, those changes helped the Shrimpers get on top – with Macauley Bonne, in particular, playing a big part.

Watching on from the bench, Bonne had spotted an area he felt he could exploit and he was proven correct when he sped in from the right hand side before delivering a dangerous low cross Hogan could only convert into the back of his own net.

After that, another substitute – Leon Parillon – took centre stage and, while you should not get too excited too soon about a new signing, the midfielder has looked a very exciting prospect in his appearances so far.

Parillon will take time to adjust to full-time football but his arrival has certainly added positivity to the Shrimpers’ play.

Blues also came back from conceding the opening goal of the game for just the second time this season and do seem to be gathering momentum.

Making the play-offs remains something of a long shot this season but the Shrimpers are becoming harder to beat once more and now sit 10th in the table.

Yes, scoring enough goals remains a problem and must be sorted long term but progress is being made.

It may not have happened quite as quickly as everyone connected with the club would have wanted this season but Blues now have far stronger options all over the pitch.

Defeats at Maidenhead and at home to Sittingbourne were extremely tough to take but the reaction since then has been positive.

And even the Shrimpers’ ‘Saturday syndrome’ could not stop that at the weekend.

Bizarrely, Blues have won all their Tuesday night matches at home so far this season but have now triumphed just once in 10 weekend games at Roots Hall this term.

Southend battled hard to avoid another setback on Saturday and will now want to the upward momentum to continue, whatever the formation may be.
 
I was the one who posted the photo of 5 at the back when Rochdale had the ball in their edge of their own area which happened many times in the first half. Second half was different. Can you filter your stats to show where our players were with or without the ball and first and second half positions? Otherwise just like my photo you can use the stat to suit your own argument. However I'm not sure what tactic that image would refer to as a formation? Maybe you could tell me what it would translate to?

FYI Spurs Pedro Porro heatmap shows him in Man U's final third most of today.....he's still playing right back!

They could play together but we’d be screwed by the second half.



Excellent post.

Where did you get that graphic from?

Biggest takeaway from this is just how attacking Noor was. Look how much further forward he was than his replacement, KAF. He was further forward than Hopper!
I know somebody with access to Wyscout.

This is the same thing, but split into first half and second half.

WhatsApp Image 2025-02-17 at 10.48.11.jpeg
Wyscout doesn't support full positional tracking below the Championship, so these maps are showing the average position of where players touched the ball.

On the bolded question - it could translate to a multitude of slight variations on the starting "formation".

What it tells me is that the days when you can use a single formation to describe the way a team sets up are long gone. Football has evolved. Teams, including Southend, adopt different formations based on whether they are attacking, defending, are in possession, are out of possession, and where the opposition have the ball (i.e. different pressing formations).

All the talk of 3-5-2 or 5-3-2 or 3-4-3 or where our wing backs seem to be stood at a given point in the game.....it's too simplistic.

It's interesting to note that some people thought we were more "negative" or "defensive" in the first half. These maps don't support that. The first half map shows that our baseline 3-5-2 formation was actually a 3-1-6 when attacking - as is often the case with us.

The 3-1-6 isn't as clear in the second half, and it seems like the team, on average, is slightly less far forward. Interesting to note Ralph push up in the second half, which is why Bridge was slightly less isolated.
 
I know somebody with access to Wyscout.

This is the same thing, but split into first half and second half.

View attachment 35733
Wyscout doesn't support full positional tracking below the Championship, so these maps are showing the average position of where players touched the ball.

On the bolded question - it could translate to a multitude of slight variations on the starting "formation".

What it tells me is that the days when you can use a single formation to describe the way a team sets up are long gone. Football has evolved. Teams, including Southend, adopt different formations based on whether they are attacking, defending, are in possession, are out of possession, and where the opposition have the ball (i.e. different pressing formations).

All the talk of 3-5-2 or 5-3-2 or 3-4-3 or where our wing backs seem to be stood at a given point in the game.....it's too simplistic.

It's interesting to note that some people thought we were more "negative" or "defensive" in the first half. These maps don't support that. The first half map shows that our baseline 3-5-2 formation was actually a 3-1-6 when attacking - as is often the case with us.

The 3-1-6 isn't as clear in the second half, and it seems like the team, on average, is slightly less far forward. Interesting to note Ralph push up in the second half, which is why Bridge was slightly less isolated.
Some excellent points here.

SofaScore also present formation data and, looking at the last two matches against Halifax and Rochdale in relation to the starting elevens, the interesting thing I took was that there wasn't a huge difference between the average positions of the players, given the perception has been that we were on the front foot throughout against Halifax and that we allowed Rochdale to play more, at least prior to the substitutions being made.

The major differences were the average position of Coker, which was marginally more defensive than Walker, as you would expect (but not significantly so) and Husin, who was much more advanced against Rochdale on Saturday as compared to Tuesday, whilst Bridge and Kendall had more touches in advanced areas against the Shaymen, which - in the case of Kendall at least - probably illustrates the high line Rochdale held.

All of which probably proves that we are, collectively, far too fixated on formations!

Halifax formation.jpeg

Rochdale formation.jpeg
 
Few things from Saturday. Bridge, Coker and Husin are not performing.
Bridge is frustrating and you can see why alot of people have had enough he does the same thing over and over and is being found out quite easily.
Coker I don't see the fascination with him yeah he's one of our own etc etc he gives the ball away too much for me and for a Central midfielder doesn't put his foot in enough.
Husin probably like most people when he signed he was great. He seems to have changed since his injury and gives the ball away alot. I always thought he could of played just behind a front 2 but his shooting is awful.

Give KAF a chance. Get Parillon Fit and we may see a different midfield.

We need a Peter Butler style enforcer in the middle of the park.

For me I'd start Bonne he gives us alot yeah he hasn't got the goals but he works hard and now he is fit does look a threat.

I'd play Bonne Hopper and Kendall Tuesday night

Hayes
Gus Taylor Goodliffe Ralph
KAF Morton Husin
Kendall Bonne Hopper

60 mins Parillon to come on for Husin or KAF get the minutes under his belt
 
I know somebody with access to Wyscout.

This is the same thing, but split into first half and second half.

View attachment 35733
Wyscout doesn't support full positional tracking below the Championship, so these maps are showing the average position of where players touched the ball.

On the bolded question - it could translate to a multitude of slight variations on the starting "formation".

What it tells me is that the days when you can use a single formation to describe the way a team sets up are long gone. Football has evolved. Teams, including Southend, adopt different formations based on whether they are attacking, defending, are in possession, are out of possession, and where the opposition have the ball (i.e. different pressing formations).

All the talk of 3-5-2 or 5-3-2 or 3-4-3 or where our wing backs seem to be stood at a given point in the game.....it's too simplistic.

It's interesting to note that some people thought we were more "negative" or "defensive" in the first half. These maps don't support that. The first half map shows that our baseline 3-5-2 formation was actually a 3-1-6 when attacking - as is often the case with us.

The 3-1-6 isn't as clear in the second half, and it seems like the team, on average, is slightly less far forward. Interesting to note Ralph push up in the second half, which is why Bridge was slightly less isolated.
Lovely to finally have absolute, concrete, undeniable evidence that Morton doesn’t need to leave the centre circle to be our best player
 
I think Bridgey is getting really hard done by by our supporters at the moment. He's been our most consistent creative force over several seasons and has now been well and truly worked out by most teams on scouting missions. That's not his fault. He's not getting the support that Fonguck used to give him, and is usually doubled up on.

FWIW, I thought he worked hard defensively yesterday, and that the defensive side of his game has improved a lot. I also thought Hopper worked harder than Coker or Husin.
That's an interesting comment. May I remind you of your response to my suggestion that Fonguck was missed on the post match thread after our 2-1 defeat at Fylde last September? Your post was #242 on that thread.
 
From the various highlights around...

Rochdale highlights showed 7 southend highlights v 8 Rochdale highlights

Southend highlights showed 12 Southend highlights v 4 Rochdale

Dazn at half time showed 6 Southend v 3 Rochdale
I thought Kendall wasted several pretty good opportunities in the first half. We were creating, but lacked quality in the box to finish - similar to Rochdale.

Either side could've won it - so a draw probably just about a fair result, but wouldn't surprise me if we edged the stats like shots, corners etc. So I'd disagree that we only did anything in the last 20 mins - we stepped it up during that period, but we were more than in the game for the other 70 mins.
I said it....

From Kev's interview...
"Go through all the stats and the metrics you've got and we were on top of everything against a good side who don't concede much once they take the lead."
 

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