Southend Board and chairman in particular

[ElstreeBlue]

I presume all of those Discussing about the financial state we're in weren't those same people demanding decent money be spent on transfer fees and wages over the past six years.

As I said the other night, it's not because we're trying to build a stadium that has got us into this mess. It's because we've been living beyond our means for years and now, like so many people in this country including the Government, it's come back to bite us in the arse. We've burned cash like it was going out of fashion and now we're struggling to pay the next bill.

Clearly we shouldn't have spent what we had. But each and every one of us greeted the new signings we've had over the years. Discussing now that we haven't got any money is hypocritical. Suggesting that we spend our way out of trouble is the equivalent of playing Russian Roulette with the Club's very existence.

I entirely agree, Beefy. I think some of the more level-headed posters on here know that the club's future should never be gambled on short-term signings. Unfortunately, the club was financially mismanaged on a massive scale when we were in the Championship. We all didn't have access to the figures at the time so couldn't comment on whether we could afford the signings. I was pleased we were making signings at the time, but I would never have advocated spending beyond our means. (I well remember the Whelan era that the club nearly didn't recover from.) Does that make me guilty? Or should the people in charge of the club's finances at that time take any blame? They say hindsight is a wonderful thing, but so far we've seen no contrition from the person who runs the show.

The biggest mess-up in all of this was the overspending on signings and wages we couldn't afford in the Championship, taking populist measures to appease certain fans' calls for signings at all costs by making panic signings (an expensive Irish striker from whom we didn't exactly get full value, just for example) and failing to plan ahead for the likely relegation from the Championship. How we could be losing £2.4m a year is unbelievable. If you read the blogs, you'd be forgiven for thinking that relegation from the Championship was a bolt from the blue. Surely the club should have planned for what happened next?

This mess can't all be blamed on the global financial crisis. Someone else a bit closer to home should take at least some of the responsibility.

But remember. Everything's all under control. There are no money problems at the club. And Tilly wouldn't have altered the starting 11 in any game this season.

 

[Mick]

co-incidentally most, if not all, of those players were often widely denigrated by southend fans when they here.

That'd probably be because they weren't very good, which is why Wycombe are heading into League 2.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

He didn't say that we didn't have a chance of going down. He said that other teams were below us for a reason. Most of whom have to come to Roots Hall still.

Even without Barnard, I suspect that we'll do enough to stay up. It won't be pretty though.

It hasn't been pretty with Barnard this season.

In fact it hasn't been pretty since Mark Gower left* on a Bosman. Should we have cashed in on him?



*left/was driven out by Ldnfatso

 

[bazzashrimper]

Whether SUFC has spent beyond its means in the past few years with RM swallowing up the excess OR SUFCs finances have generally balanced and RM is currently squeezing some money from the club to spend on the new stadium I am not sure (although I know which way RM's spin points towards!).

RM isn't skint, he has cash flow problems - but why is this? How much land has he bought in preperation for the new stadium - do we know? i.e. Has he spent a load of money on property, which cannot currently be used on players and wages - for example, I don't suppose Prospects college comes cheap. If he's been spending loads of cash in that direction, I'm not sure this is financial mismanagement on behalf of his array of companies.

 

[weststander]

We are only 3 points above the relegation zone, most of the teams below us have at least 1 game in hand. We have a difficult looking run of away games.

I would say we are very much in with a chance of going down! I think it will be a fairly low total though.

We currently have 29 points and it is normally agreed that 50 points is the goal for staying up. Therefore we need 7 more wins. I agree we have some horrible away games but we should be able to get a point at Hartlepool, Gillingham and Oldham. Then we have our home games and we should be able to beat, Wycombe, Tranmere, Exeter, Carlisle, Walsall, Stockport, Yeovil, Brentford and Brighton. Possibly even Brentford and Swindon. We have a much easier home run in and i think that will end up comfortably mid table with around 59/60 points....

 

[leeblue]

We currently have 29 points and it is normally agreed that 50 points is the goal for staying up. Therefore we need 7 more wins. I agree we have some horrible away games but we should be able to get a point at Hartlepool, Gillingham and Oldham. Then we have our home games and we should be able to beat, Wycombe, Tranmere, Exeter, Carlisle, Walsall, Stockport, Yeovil, Brentford and Brighton. Possibly even Brentford and Swindon. We have a much easier home run in and i think that will end up comfortably mid table with around 59/60 points....

thats pretty much how i see it tbh, even without barney we should be ok, and you never know we may get someone in who gives us a little something(fingers crossed)

 

[BrettieAngell]

We currently have 29 points and it is normally agreed that 50 points is the goal for staying up. Therefore we need 7 more wins. I agree we have some horrible away games but we should be able to get a point at Hartlepool, Gillingham and Oldham. Then we have our home games and we should be able to beat, Wycombe, Tranmere, Exeter, Carlisle, Walsall, Stockport, Yeovil, Brentford and Brighton. Possibly even Brentford and Swindon. We have a much easier home run in and i think that will end up comfortably mid table with around 59/60 points....

Says it all! I think we will be safe but I dont think its gonna be that easy.

 

[bazzashrimper]

This mess can't all be blamed on the global financial crisis.

I dare say buying a load of property is cheaper now than it was 2 years ago, as is steel etc. Getting finance is more difficult, but it's not all bad for Ron

 

[fbm]

or guess what keep posting your opinions people long winded or one worded people, and make a true forum what it is.........

I've got absolutely no problem with people posting opinions, regardless of what they are. I love a good debate. You may notice my firms logo in the top right... I sponsor this site and have done for some time, since Leeboy was an owner. I remember a converstaion with him in the Spreadeagle prior to the Port Vale game (that was when I met you Andy) when we first got into L1. At that time, he and the other owner (Mike? Scriv? Can't recall) were having to dig deep into their own pockets so that people like you and I could post our opinions. There was some doubt they could afford to continue it so I offered sponsorship to keep it open. I've continued that... I get an advert but in truth nothing comes from it because I don't do it for gain. I do it because I am a passionate Southend fan, like all of us on here, and I love reading different views and discussing different opinions about the club, the players, the games... anything to do with our club. I fully appreciate the owners and mods time they give up to provide this facility so that we can have this discussion.

What I do get tired of however is reading the same old rant which is delivered as though we have a choice... the same old accusations of having rose (blue!) tinted glasses or blind faith if you so much as dare to question whether Ron is actually the antichrist some people have him down for... the tirade of abuse levelled at the management every time we don't win and - most of all - the continued failure to accept the rather stunningly obvious situation that football is generally in trouble and as we are a football club, so are we. We have been given an awful lot of information that sadly a lot of people cannot correctly process because they don't have either the life experience or the knowledge to do so. That isn't Rons fault.

My own view is that we should not judge when we don't have all the facts, and we will never have those. Whether we like it or not, SUFC is a business with an owner and shareholders. Whilst the owner holds the majority of the shares, we, whether shareholders or not, are totally at his mercy. Thats the long and short of it.

I'm not going to wobble on again about my thoughts on Ron Martin other than to say that I think he has tried to be all things to all men and that's not possible.

But as for this board, you can't debate with people who have no reasoning behind their statements. We all know the state we're in... no-one that I know of is happy about it but it doesn't mean our faith is blind either. At the end of the day there must be an almighty pot of gold at the end of this particular rainbow. If Ron gets us there, we get a new stadium out of it and a team in better financial shape than we are now, then that's great with me.

 

[leeblue]

:clap: best post ever

 

[Napster]

I remember a converstaion with him in the Spreadeagle prior to the Port Vale game (that was when I met you Andy) when we first got into L1. At that time, he and the other owner (Mike? Scriv? Can't recall) were having to dig deep into their own pockets so that people like you and I could post our opinions.

Mike and Scriv first owned it and paid little. When we upgraded to a new server I came on board and we paid £75 a month to the server company. Then Mike left, then Scriv, and I got Leeboy involved. Between us we paid a lot to keep the site going. I left when I moved to Kent, which would have been mid 2005 ish. Since then the current owners took over.

The forum is what it is, a forum, and a wide spectrum of people. Some of them even support Orient. I'm sceptical of Ron but without proof it remains scepticism.

 

[grassroots]

I've got absolutely no problem with people posting opinions, regardless of what they are. I love a good debate. You may notice my firms logo in the top right... I sponsor this site and have done for some time, since Leeboy was an owner. I remember a converstaion with him in the Spreadeagle prior to the Port Vale game (that was when I met you Andy) when we first got into L1. At that time, he and the other owner (Mike? Scriv? Can't recall) were having to dig deep into their own pockets so that people like you and I could post our opinions. There was some doubt they could afford to continue it so I offered sponsorship to keep it open. I've continued that... I get an advert but in truth nothing comes from it because I don't do it for gain. I do it because I am a passionate Southend fan, like all of us on here, and I love reading different views and discussing different opinions about the club, the players, the games... anything to do with our club. I fully appreciate the owners and mods time they give up to provide this facility so that we can have this discussion.

What I do get tired of however is reading the same old rant which is delivered as though we have a choice... the same old accusations of having rose (blue!) tinted glasses or blind faith if you so much as dare to question whether Ron is actually the antichrist some people have him down for... the tirade of abuse levelled at the management every time we don't win and - most of all - the continued failure to accept the rather stunningly obvious situation that football is generally in trouble and as we are a football club, so are we. We have been given an awful lot of information that sadly a lot of people cannot correctly process because they don't have either the life experience or the knowledge to do so. That isn't Rons fault.

My own view is that we should not judge when we don't have all the facts, and we will never have those. Whether we like it or not, SUFC is a business with an owner and shareholders. Whilst the owner holds the majority of the shares, we, whether shareholders or not, are totally at his mercy. Thats the long and short of it.

I'm not going to wobble on again about my thoughts on Ron Martin other than to say that I think he has tried to be all things to all men and that's not possible.

But as for this board, you can't debate with people who have no reasoning behind their statements. We all know the state we're in... no-one that I know of is happy about it but it doesn't mean our faith is blind either. At the end of the day there must be an almighty pot of gold at the end of this particular rainbow. If Ron gets us there, we get a new stadium out of it and a team in better financial shape than we are now, then that's great with me.

Good level headed post. Should the last sentance read "If Ron gets us there, we get to rent a new stadium and hopefully a team in better financial shape....." and this is the bit that still bugs me - just how will the Football Club benefit from the outside 'revenue streams'? You are absolutely right fbm we are in the hands of Mr Martin and as per a quote in a recent article regarding Portsmouth's plight, "...there are no cuddly property developers", so all we can do is keep our fingers crossed.....and keep posting our worries on here, at least it gets it off your chest!!

 

[Ricky Otto]

Reading through the posts, I think there are a lot of valid points on both sides of the arguement. I personally think that it is inevitable that we will be kept in the dark over a lot of business the club is doing, like Ron has said a lot is commercially sensitive and information being in the public domain could hinder our progression. As much as its frustrating not knowing the future I think we all have to realise that we will not be privy to most information until the point nothing can be done about it. I will judge Ron in a couple of years time and I think thats all any of us can do.

 

[mattytheshrimper]

thats pretty much how i see it tbh, even without barney we should be ok, and you never know we may get someone in who gives us a little something(fingers crossed)

how'd you work that one out. our 2nd highest scorer has 3 goals!!!!

we rubbish with barney let alone without him.

 

[GBJ]

I doubt we are going to finish any higher than we are now but the teams below us are all below us as they cant win games so I cant see all of them doing better than us.

Similar to the CCC season though isn't it? It was in our hands. Leeds at Roots Hall? Barnsley at The Hall? Luton at The Hall? Away to Hull? Also Hull at Roots Hall that season (easily one of the most disgracefull performances i've ever witnessed).

Relegation is a very real possibility, and we shouldn't kid ourselves that we're too good to go down, or the other teams aren't good enough to stay up. We also shoudln't be of the mindset, that just because these teams are below us they will show up at The Hall and we'll turn them over. These teams will be fighting for their lives, i can't see many rolling over.

The most worrying fact, is Barny has scored 15 of our 29 league goals. 11 Goals have been scored by our players, and the remaining 3 have been scored by loan players who aren't here anymore. So, take Barny out of the equation (as he'll be off any day now) and that 11 goals total looks rather pathetic. It puts us as the lowest scoring team in the League, which of course, is relegation
form.

 

[EastStandBlue]

how'd you work that one out. our 2nd highest scorer has 3 goals!!!!

we rubbish with barney let alone without him.

So what difference would it make?

Diverting somewhat away from the subject here, but of course Barnard has scored a lot of crucial goals for us this season but having somebody like him in the squad leads to a lot of dependance. As such, we seem to always look for Barnard instead of playing what might be a more obvious ball... Balls are always flying over the top for him to chase on to and, more often than not, they're sent flying back. We've seen it all before with Eastwood and, if he can carry on scoring, we'll see it with Spencer as well.

We might play different without Barnard, we might struggle for goals, we might play more fluid football. They word there is "might" and we'll not know until we have a few games with him. The fact that Barnard's all round game means that I'm not in a state of absolute panic that he's going... I think that somebody will be able to fill his boots, recieve the service he got and get a handful of goals at least between now and May.

 

[leeblue]

how'd you work that one out. our 2nd highest scorer has 3 goals!!!!

we rubbish with barney let alone without him.

dont get me wrong barney will be missed, but spencer has started well and as I am an eternal optimist I think we will get some sort of replacement

 

[Suffolk Blue]

... The most worrying fact, is Barny has scored 15 of our 29 league goals. 11 Goals have been scored by our players, and the remaining 3 have been scored by loan players who aren't here anymore. So, take Barny out of the equation (as he'll be off any day now) and that 11 goals total looks rather pathetic. It puts us as the lowest scoring team in the League, which of course, is relegation
form.

Of course Barney has scored most of our goals; he's the main striker at the club! In fact in some matches he's been the lone striker.

I would expect whichever player we play up front to take over the goal-scoring mantle. I appreciate that he might not be as successful as Barney has been; but we won't know until we lose Barney. In fact we might change our style of play to one which ends up with goal scoring duties getting shared around a little more.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

People are getting far too hung up on the individual who gets the final touch.

Of course we would struggle if we'd played all those games without Barnard, because you always struggle with 10 men against 11.

I expect the goals to be shared around a lot more now, and I think we may see the likes of Moussa, Scannell and maybe even McCormack on the scoresheet more often than they have been to date.

 

[jamesmut2000]

People are getting far too hung up on the individual who gets the final touch.

Of course we would struggle if we'd played all those games without Barnard, because you always struggle with 10 men against 11.

I expect the goals to be shared around a lot more now, and I think we may see the likes of Moussa, Scannell and maybe even McCormack on the scoresheet more often than they have been to date.

Well that shouldn't be too difficult!!!!