Shamima Bequm-Return or not ?

[Bielzibubz]

Perhaps you would like to stand in front of the families and friends of literally millions of people who died needlessly as a result of our direct actions in Iraq and our support for the Libyan adventure plus the so good for business supply of weapons to Saudi Arabia.

Stand in front of them and do what? Dance? Play a ditty on a recorder? Recite a little Shakespear?........ What would you like me to do?

And what the hell has Iran and arm sales to Saudi Arabia got to do with her, her ties to Isis and her having her citizenship removed? You really can be a bit of a melt at time you know.

 

[Firestorm]

I guess the part to focus on, is what exactly ‘justice’ actually is. To me, the punishment has to fit the crime.

Proper legal factual Justice as per the laws of this land is suppose is the answer I would be after


The magna carta has been touted about a lot in recent months by various protest groups this bit is sort of covered in Chapter 39.

I can see the perception of justice angle , but that's very much an individual thing, often related to closure for those affected. Very difficult to legislate for

 

[GBJ]

Proper legal factual Justice as per the laws of this land is suppose is the answer I would be after

The magna carta has been touted about a lot in recent months by various protest groups this bit is sort of covered in Chapter 39.

I can see the perception of justice angle , but that's very much an individual thing, often related to closure for those affected. Very difficult to legislate for

Again, sometimes, proper legal factual justice, is simply unjust.

As I said, if a nonce cops an 18-month suspended sentence, then technically, that is the right & proper justice he has to serve, as ordered by the courts, under the guise of The Law Of The Land.

That’s an example of when the law, although right, is completely wrong. It’s debatable how often these type of injustices happen. I believe it happens more than it should though.

I agree, it comes down to personal perception of what justice is, but then sometimes a rare case comes along, where the majority speak with one collective voice. That’s whats happened here.

And that itself, is borne out of a feeling that “proper legal factual justice”, will not be administered in this case, in addition to all the risks & downsides to her returning.

The simple fact is, she has more to gain by returning. And that’s what people object to.

 

[Floval Flyer]

What really irritates me is how much air time this woman is getting, when the focus should be on helping to secure the release of people such as Nazanin Zaghari Ratcliffe.

 

[blues exile]

Stand in front of them and do what? Dance? Play a ditty on a recorder? Recite a little Shakespear?........ What would you like me to do?

And what the hell has Iran and arm sales to Saudi Arabia got to do with her, her ties to Isis and her having her citizenship removed? You really can be a bit of a melt at time you know.

if you cannot see the connection between the rise of Islamic terrorism and the invasion of Islamic countries by the west then there is really no hope.

 

[GBJ]

if you cannot see the connection between the rise of Islamic terrorism and the invasion of Islamic countries by the west then there is really no hope.

Still waiting for you to back up your spurious & defamatory claims of Islamaphobia on this thread

 

[Firestorm]

Again, sometimes, proper legal factual justice, is simply unjust.

As I said, if a nonce cops an 18-month suspended sentence, then technically, that is the right & proper justice he has to serve, as ordered by the courts, under the guise of The Law Of The Land.

That’s an example of when the law, although right, is completely wrong. It’s debatable how often these type of injustices happen. I believe it happens more than it should though.

I agree, it comes down to personal perception of what justice is, but then sometimes a rare case comes along, where the majority speak with one collective voice. That’s whats happened here.

And that itself, is borne out of a feeling that “proper legal factual justice”, will not be administered in this case, in addition to all the risks & downsides to her returning.

The simple fact is, she has more to gain by returning. And that’s what people object to.

So the Law should be adhered to except when someone somewhere doesn't like it , then we can hand over dispensing summary justice how and when the baying "majority" feel like it.

nah, not for me , I'll stick to the 800 year old law making processes this country has developed , warts and all . They may not be to everybody's taste , but vigilante mob rule 'aint my cup of tea either.

Personally, leaving someone on record as legally innocent whilst meting out backdoor justice doesn't sit right .

 

[Bielzibubz]

if you cannot see the connection between the rise of Islamic terrorism and the invasion of Islamic countries by the west then there is really no hope.

I can see it but what in Gods name has that got to do with this topic. You have supported her return and been asked to justify that argument in front of those who've suffered at the hands of those she supports. I have no where said I support, or even suggested I support arms sales to Suadi Arabia, Iran or our needless intervention in Iraq so why you want me to stand up in front of millions is beyond me........And I repeat. Stand up in front of them and do what exactly. I'd probably agree with 99.9% of what they had to say you dimwit.

 

[blues exile]

I can see it but what in Gods name has that got to do with this topic. You have supported her return and been asked to justify that argument in front of those who've suffered at the hands of those she supports. I have no where said I support, or even suggested I support arms sales to Suadi Arabia, Iran or our needless intervention in Iraq so why you want me to stand up in front of millions is beyond me........And I repeat. Stand up in front of them and do what exactly. I'd probably agree with 99.9% of what they had to say you dimwit.

Resort to personal abuse is the classic response of someone who has lost the argument and their self respect.

 

[GBJ]

Resort to personal abuse is the classic response of someone who has lost the argument and their self respect.

Before you get too comfortable on that high horse, maybe you can provide the evidence for your outrageous & insulting claims that Islamaphobia has been present in this thread.

Third and final time of asking. Otherwise from here on out, you’ll be known as someone who makes outlandish, defamatory claims without any substance, and therefore can’t be taken seriously.

Thanks.

 

[RHB]

Before you get too comfortable on that high horse, maybe you can provide the evidence for your outrageous & insulting claims that Islamaphobia has been present in this thread.

Third and final time of asking. Otherwise from here on out, you’ll be known as someone who makes outlandish, defamatory claims without any substance, and therefore can’t be taken seriously.

Thanks.

Unfortunately, this whole Forum is a spawning ground extraodinaire for that status.

 

[Bielzibubz]

You call that an insult? Seriously..... Oh dear.

Self respect is fine and still there thanks. Respect for you and your arguments however.......

 

[GBJ]

Unfortunately, this whole Forum is a spawning ground extraodinaire for that status.

Irrelevant.

If people want to chuck accusations around, then they should be prepared to back it up.

The days of the far-left labelling everyone a racist, for merely speaking about an ethnic minority, race or religion are over

 

[Firestorm]

Irrelevant.

If people want to chuck accusations around, then they should be prepared to back it up.

The days of the far-left labelling everyone a racist, for merely speaking about an ethnic minority, race or religion are over

Not according to the Labour party its not, they have had everybody and their dog throw the anti-Semitism card at them in the past 6 months, primarily just for criticising a country....

A return to "do as you would be done by would" be nice

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

She cannot be a uk citizen she was prepared to kill our own get this country on a decent path

It really doesn't work that way.It wouldn't suprise me if in 2/3 years time she gets her UK citizenship restored on appeal after all this racist posturing from HMG has died down.Granted if she does, then she'll have to go through due process.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

This amused me:

Sajid Javid: A 15-year-old girl knew what she was doing, should be held accountable and stripped of her citizenship.

Also Sajid Javid: Give the vote to 16 and 17-year-olds? To children? Children know nothing - they're far too immature!

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

This amused me:

Sajid Javid: A 15-year-old girl knew what she was doing, should be held accountable and stripped of her citizenship.

Also Sajid Javid: Give the vote to 16 and 17-year-olds? To children? Children know nothing - they're far too immature!

Have you got a link for those quotes? Context is important (critical, in fact) here.

It is also a bit of a stretch to equate wandering down the road to put an x in a box without a second thought (most 16 year olds) to rejecting the country you have lived in for almost 16 years and have experience of to go illegally (aware it is illegal) to a war zone where the people you are joining crow about beheading people that don’t agree with them.

I would respectfully suggest that the former might quite often be done with limited or no thought at all, while the latter isn’t something you could accidentally stumble into. Are they equal in comparison?

 

[Floval Flyer]

It really doesn't work that way.It wouldn't suprise me if in 2/3 years time she gets her UK citizenship restored on appeal after all this racist posturing from HMG has died down.Granted if she does, then she'll have to go through due process.

Racist? How is wanting to defy a person who supports a radical terrorist organisation racist?

Her ethnic background or creed does not come into it. Even if she was Susan Smith from Sandown she should not be allowed back in the UK.

 

[Floval Flyer]

This amused me:

Sajid Javid: A 15-year-old girl knew what she was doing, should be held accountable and stripped of her citizenship.

Also Sajid Javid: Give the vote to 16 and 17-year-olds? To children? Children know nothing - they're far too immature!

Not all 15 year olds are the same.

Current news story is a case involving a 16 yo boy accused of raping and killing a primary school girl.

Same age as my eldest son, who is a well educated and placid kid.

As said not all children are the same. This girl is clearly an extraordinary individual, and not in a positive way. What 15yo do you know who would run off to Syria to join a death squad? Or even a 19yo having no empathy for a bunch of teeny pop fans being murdered, especially when they are your own uk citizens?
She is a serious risk to other British citizens, and this is why I don’t want her type* on our shores. (*and this refers to her mindset, not ethnicity)

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

To the 3 that voted YES in the poll; shame on you!

Not really, the 3 presumably want her to face British justice rather than see it as someone else's problem.