Rio Ferdinand

[The General]

Great to see him back.

Put a smile on my face seeing him back in action. Not sure why i feel like that but not playing football for 8 months must be very tough and i personally couldn't do it.

With Sol returning, and Woody returning within a month, we've got 5 world class centre backs. Lets hope Sven change's to a 3-5-2 with Cole and SWP as wings back.

Kev

 

[chadded]

Quote[/b] (The General @ Sep. 20 2004,22:29)]we've got 5 world class centre backs.

Rio, Sol, John Terry, Woodgate, and who?

 

[palexander]

John Terry is not world class as good as he is and Woodgate is unproven as he hasnt had a consistant run anywhere.

Yea, was good to see Rio back even if I hate Man U...

 

[Barmy Army]

Quote[/b] (chadded @ Sep. 20 2004,22:34)]

Quote[/b] (The General @ Sep. 20 2004,22:29)]we've got 5 world class centre backs.

Rio, Sol, John Terry, Woodgate, and who?

erm Ledley King?

 

[Technician]

We still won't get anywhere under SGE

 

[steveh1510]

Quote[/b] (Technician @ Sep. 21 2004,08:24)]We still won't get anywhere under SGE  

Like the Quarter finals of the last world cup, only losing to the eventual winners (and beating the other finalists 5-1 away form home in qualification) or the quarter finals of the last Euro championships, only losing to the eventual finalists and hosts.

How quickly people seem to forget it was only just over 10 years ago that Graham Taylor was England boss, give me Sven any day of the week over Taylor.....

 

[W4 Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (steveh1510 @ Sep. 21 2004,10:18)]How quickly people seem to forget it was only just over 10 years ago that Graham Taylor was England boss, give me Sven any day of the week over Taylor.....

And give me Big Sam Allardyce any day of the week over Sven.

Incidentally, I read in this morning's paper that the FA won't stand in Sven's way if he wants to take the Real Madrid job....

 

[Technician]

Quote[/b] (steveh1510 @ Sep. 21 2004,09:18)]

Quote[/b] (Technician @ Sep. 21 2004,08:24)]We still won't get anywhere under SGE  

 Like the Quarter finals of the last world cup, only losing to the eventual winners (and beating the other finalists 5-1 away form home in qualification) or the quarter finals of the last Euro championships, only losing to the eventual finalists and hosts.

How quickly people seem to forget it was only just over 10 years ago that Graham Taylor was England boss, give me Sven any day of the week over Taylor.....

He's a complete waste of money and a gigolo!

How misguided some people are...

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (W4 Shrimper @ Sep. 21 2004,10:45)]And give me Big Sam Allardyce any day of the week over Sven.

Incidentally, I read in this morning's paper that the FA won't stand in Sven's way if he wants to take the Real Madrid job....

I trust that the FA will be seeking compensation from Real Madrid if SGE goes.

Can't say I'd be too upset if he went; and, for me, I'd be delighted if Big Sam or Curbs got the job.

Matt

 

[steveh1510]

Quote[/b] (Technician @ Sep. 21 2004,09:46)]How misguided some people are...  

Misguided, why?

Because I rate a manager who has just about the best record of an England manager in recent years (he has a higher win percentage and a lower loss percentage than Sir Bobby Robson) who has taken us to as far as we have been in a World Cup finals ever, other than 1990 and 1966?

Because I couldn't give a monkeys who the England boss is shagging as long as it doesn't affect the results on the pitch?

Because I don't think there is a good enough replacement (yet - Big Sam, Curbs and Steve McLaren are potentials, but have little European experience)?

Results speak for themselves and we have lost competitively under Sven to the last 2 world champions, and on penalties to the hosts of a European Championships. That, I don't think, is a bad record.

 

[Technician]

Quote[/b] (steveh1510 @ Sep. 21 2004,10:14)]

Quote[/b] (Technician @ Sep. 21 2004,09:46)]How misguided some people are...  

Misguided, why?

Because I rate a manager who has just about the best record of an England manager in recent years (he has a higher win percentage and a lower loss percentage than Sir Bobby Robson) who has taken us to as far as we have been in a World Cup finals ever, other than 1990 and 1966?

Because I couldn't give a monkeys who the England boss is shagging as long as it doesn't affect the results on the pitch?

Because I don't think there is a good enough replacement (yet - Big Sam, Curbs and Steve McLaren are potentials, but have little European experience)?

Results speak for themselves and we have lost competitively under Sven to the last 2 world champions, and on penalties to the hosts of a European Championships. That, I don't think, is a bad record.

That's all meaningless toffee as far as I am concerned!

He is being paid £4m a year to win a major competition for England, but as yet, he hasn't even come remotely close enough to doing that.

His last statement was exactly the same as the one before that [and so on...]. "Give me time, and I will guide England to victory...!"

Well guiding England to victory in friendlies and qualifiers, just does not count! if he can't do it against the likes of Austria in qualification [remember them?], then what chance do we have in the world cup... another quarter final exit [if we're lucky to get that far]? big firkin' deal!!!

 

[* ORM *]

Getting back to the subject in hand:

1) Rio Ferdinand is a cheat and should have served a 2 year suspension. Thoughts on his playing ability will be contentious. Thoughts on the drug matter cannot be.

2) Rio Ferdinand world class - my arse. Name one world class team apart from MUFC that has ever made a bid for either him or Campbell. (I could fall on my sword on this one !)

Personally I'd stick with Terry and King, even when Campbell is fit again. Ferdinand and Campbell are good players but they aren't great players and they aren't going to get any better than they are now. Terry and King are prone to mistakes but both have enormous potential. They've got another year or so against meaningless minnows to get themselves fully up to the standards required to carry us through in tournament finals.

Hopefully by that time SGE will be consigned to history. Steve makes a valid point on his managerial record and poor opposition still have to be beaten. I still don't care what anyone says. As far as I'm concerned this is the ENGLISH national team and we need an ENGLISH manager leading it. If we haven't got any that are up to the job then tough sh*t as far as I'm concerned.

 

[steveh1510]

Quote[/b] (Technician @ Sep. 21 2004,13:29)]That's all meaningless toffee as far as I am concerned!  

He is being paid £4m a year to win a major competition for England, but as yet, he hasn't even come remotely close enough to doing that.

His last statement was exactly the same as the one before that [and so on...]. "Give me time, and I will guide England to victory...!"

Well guiding England to victory in friendlies and qualifiers, just does not count! if he can't do it against the likes of Austria in qualification [remember them?], then what chance do we have in the world cup... another quarter final exit [if we're lucky to get that far]? big firkin' deal!!!  

The fact that he is paid £4m a year is the fault of the FA, not SGE. They should never have offered him those wages in the first place, he's not going to ask to be paid less is he?

I would say that losing in the quarter finals of a major tournament to a fluke goal by the eventual winners is 'remotely close' to winning a major tournament.

What do you expect him to say?

We're top of the group, with our 2 most difficult (on paper, anyway) games out of the way. We're on our way to qualification, and to be perfectly honest, if we get to the world cup 2006 I don't care how we did in our opening qualifying game.

 

[steveh1510]

As for Rio, no, he's not world class. He's got the potential to be (he's still only 23/24) but he's not yet.

Whether you agree with his ban or not, there needs to be consistency. Recently someone in Hungary (?) got banned for just 10 games because it was proved he was taking drugs, and Rio gets 8 months for missing a drug test, despite the fact it was proved afterwards that he wasn't taking drugs, and he held his hands up and admitted making a mistake and missing the test.

 

[The General]

Quote[/b] (steveh1510 @ Sep. 21 2004,14:05)]As for Rio, no, he's not world class. He's got the potential to be (he's still only 23/24) but he's not yet.

Whether you agree with his ban or not, there needs to be consistency. Recently someone in Hungary (?) got banned for just 10 games because it was proved he was taking drugs, and Rio gets 8 months for missing a drug test, despite the fact it was proved afterwards that he wasn't taking drugs, and he held his hands up and admitted making a mistake and missing the test.

I thought it was in Holland but that aint the issue.

How someone can get a 10 game ban for being caught is outrageous. It should be a straight ban for 2 years. Simple. That w***er Blatter caused such a fuss over the Rio case yet he says nothing about the latest incident.

As for SGE. People need to get off his back. It's not his fault that he's getting paid £4 million a year, doesn't have a top team - who perform too inconsistantly all the time. Has one of the best records as England boss in competitive games and as long as business and pleasure don't effect his performance then i'm not too bothered really.

Kev

 

[* ORM *]

Quote[/b] (steveh1510 @ Sep. 21 2004,15:05)]Whether you agree with his ban or not, there needs to be consistency. Recently someone in Hungary (?) got banned for just 10 games because it was proved he was taking drugs, and Rio gets 8 months for missing a drug test, despite the fact it was proved afterwards that he wasn't taking drugs, and he held his hands up and admitted making a mistake and missing the test.

Steve,

In any other sport a 'missed' test is a failed test. Whether he would have passed it or not is irrelevant.

Agreed on the consistency bit to a point but I fully don't understand the situation. I thought FIFA had signed up to the WDA (is that correct?) code which carries a maximum 2 year ban for drug abuse. The relevant association/authority can impose (or not) a penalty for miscreants which the WDA has ultimate right to over-rule. No doubt someone with the full picture will put me right.

The inference I disagree with is that because someone else only got a 10 game ban Rio was hard done by. If the world was run like that it would be a very dangerous place indeed. Oh it is.  

 

[steveh1510]

Quote[/b] (* ORM * @ Sep. 21 2004,14:38)]

Quote[/b] (steveh1510 @ Sep. 21 2004,15:05)]Whether you agree with his ban or not, there needs to be consistency. Recently someone in Hungary (?) got banned for just 10 games because it was proved he was taking drugs, and Rio gets 8 months for missing a drug test, despite the fact it was proved afterwards that he wasn't taking drugs, and he held his hands up and admitted making a mistake and missing the test.

Steve,

In any other sport a 'missed' test is a failed test. Whether he would have passed it or not is irrelevant.

I know, I'm not saying that Rio's ban was too harsh/too lenient, just that there needs to be a set amount of time (which I too would set at 2 years as with other sports) and there needs to be consitency in applying this. I was merely making the comparison with the 10 match ban.

 

[Technician]

Quote[/b] (steveh1510 @ Sep. 21 2004,14:01)]

Quote[/b] (Technician @ Sep. 21 2004,13:29)]That's all meaningless toffee as far as I am concerned!  

He is being paid £4m a year to win a major competition for England, but as yet, he hasn't even come remotely close enough to doing that.

His last statement was exactly the same as the one before that [and so on...]. "Give me time, and I will guide England to victory...!"

Well guiding England to victory in friendlies and qualifiers, just does not count! if he can't do it against the likes of Austria in qualification [remember them?], then what chance do we have in the world cup... another quarter final exit [if we're lucky to get that far]? big firkin' deal!!!  

The fact that he is paid £4m a year is the fault of the FA, not SGE. They should never have offered him those wages in the first place, he's not going to ask to be paid less is he?

I would say that losing in the quarter finals of a major tournament to a fluke goal by the eventual winners is 'remotely close' to winning a major tournament.

What do you expect him to say?

We're top of the group, with our 2 most difficult (on paper, anyway) games out of the way. We're on our way to qualification, and to be perfectly honest, if we get to the world cup 2006 I don't care how we did in our opening qualifying game.

"Flukey goals", "unlucky goals", "fumbled goals", "it wasn't going in, until a freak gust of wind changed the ball's trajectory goals", ...does it really make a difference?

You really are clutching at straws with this one!

The bottom line is that SGE is NOT good enough to be England manager... his heart was never in it and the FA are just too bloody stupid to recognise this!

I will concede that we are stuck with this arrogant Swedish to**er until his contract expires and he should be made to firkin well earn every penny of the £4m per year the FA are paying him, in getting the best from the England squad... I won't be holding my breath...

 

[Benfleetshrimp]

Everyone remember the world cup in Japan and Korea? How about Rio's performances during this tournament?
How about the majority of Rio's performances since the world cup?
Why isnt Rio world class?

 

[steveh1510]

Quote[/b] (Technician @ Sep. 21 2004,15:23)]You really are clutching at straws with this one!

The bottom line is that SGE is NOT good enough to be England manager...

I'm not clutching at straws at all, I'm presenting facts/opinions as I see them. And the FACT is that there is nothing a manager can do about a freak goal of the nature of Ronaldinho's in the world cup.

But no, ultimately it doesn't make a difference, whether a goal is a fluke or a screamer, we still came 'remotely close' to winning the last world cup, but were beaten by a Brazilian side that went on to win it.

Not good enough? As stated previously, he has just about the best record of any England manager in recent years.