Right-to-die man Tony Nicklinson dead

[Pubey]

Agree with Harry, we can't have quick/knee-jerk changes to allow people like Tony Nicklinson to have their suicide assisted/be murdered. Any change to the law needs a very long and thorough consideration. It's not simple to just set up a Dignitas house, it requires a debate over the fundamental role of Doctors and palliative and end-of-life care, and the issue about informed consent is hugely contentious. A massively complex issue and Tony Nicklinson was just never going to get an answer in the time frame he needed.

 

[Kent Shrimper]

Agree with Harry, we can't have quick/knee-jerk changes to allow people like Tony Nicklinson to have their suicide assisted/be murdered. Any change to the law needs a very long and thorough consideration. It's not simple to just set up a Dignitas house, it requires a debate over the fundamental role of Doctors and palliative and end-of-life care, and the issue about informed consent is hugely contentious. A massively complex issue and Tony Nicklinson was just never going to get an answer in the time frame he needed.

You sound like a politician Pubes, i agree the fundamentals need sorting but i don't see there needs to be debate, it should be a personal choice. I don't know the facts but how come its allowed in Switzerland, did they spend forever chatting about it?

 

[Jam_Man]

As soon as you start "debating" it you get the religious groups having their say.

Why should someone who believes in any one of the 123 gods have any say in how an atheist such as I wish my life to end.

It is a complicated issue, but should only be so because of state of mind issues, not morality.

Ridley Scotts brother made his decision and no law could stop him jumping off that bridge so not sure why it cant be deemed acceptable to offer a less horrific end to the terminal ill or people like Mr Nicklinson.

 

[canveyshrimper]

You sound like a politician Pubes, i agree the fundamentals need sorting but i don't see there needs to be debate, it should be a personal choice. I don't know the facts but how come its allowed in Switzerland, did they spend forever chatting about it?

Of course this has to be debated Andy and I am sure it will be debated in Parliament in the full course of time, but I can't see this becoming enshrined in law here for at least 10 years. I don't know the exact circumstances of how Dignitas are allowed to operate in Switzerland but the issue must have had the support of their Parliament.

 

[Pubey]

You sound like a politician Pubes, i agree the fundamentals need sorting but i don't see there needs to be debate, it should be a personal choice. I don't know the facts but how come its allowed in Switzerland, did they spend forever chatting about it?

LOL not a politician but done a lot of work on medical ethics and end of life care. It needs a debate as to whether it's wanted and how it could be workable, Doctors are opposed to it (at least the BMA opposed and a change to this was voted against), so a Dignitas set-up doesn't seem feasible.

 

[Kent Shrimper]

LOL not a politician but done a lot of work on medical ethics and end of life care. It needs a debate as to whether it's wanted and how it could be workable, Doctors are opposed to it (at least the BMA opposed and a change to this was voted against), so a Dignitas set-up doesn't seem feasible.

How does it work in Switzerland?

 

[Napster]

It's more sad because he's a local man - used to live in my village and play for the local rugby side.

Whilst I can understand the issues of informed consent - surely there should be a mechanism, maybe like a life MOT, where you get the chance to say to medical staff - please do not resuscitate.

 

[Pubey]

How does it work in Switzerland?

There was a really good programme about Dignitas on BBC2 last year with Terry Pratchett, I wouldn't be surprised if you find it repeated sometime. Basically swiss law allows assisted suicide, and their medical council doesn't have a position on it (I don't think) and so Doctors are allowed to make a personal decision whether to assist. As such, Dignitas and the other organisations find it very hard to find physicians to assist, and the programme does a good job in highlighting that even with a pretty well organised system it's still a challenge for people to go through the process.

 

[Pubey]

It's more sad because he's a local man - used to live in my village and play for the local rugby side.

Whilst I can understand the issues of informed consent - surely there should be a mechanism, maybe like a life MOT, where you get the chance to say to medical staff - please do not resuscitate.

You can do that already.

Removal of care (passive euthanasia/do not resuscitate) and assisted suicide are different.

 

[canveyshrimper]

It's more sad because he's a local man - used to live in my village and play for the local rugby side.

Whilst I can understand the issues of informed consent - surely there should be a mechanism, maybe like a life MOT, where you get the chance to say to medical staff - please do not resuscitate.

There is a mechanism for DNR, when my mum was in her last few months her doctors asked me what they should do if she had a heart attack, should they resuscitate or not. I was against the idea of not resucsitating her at first, I then spoke to her brothers and both were a bit more pragmatic than me and I agreed that she should not be resucsitated. She was 87 and had a long and fairly healthy life and at the end the ward she was on was like God's waiting room.

 

[pickledseal]

I'm against euthanasia, and not for religious reasons.

I read a quote on Hitler's euthanasia direction which I wish I still had... It basically put a value on human life and said that the disabled had a lesser value (if a value at all).

I just fear that if it was brought in where do we draw the line? I believe that ALL life is valuable and despite illness, disability etc it NEVER loses that precious value.

As soon as we introduce a criteria it will be pushed... Like in Holland.

Would you allow euthanasia for a depressed person?
Would you allow your child to choose euthanasia? At what age? What if you didn't want it, but they did?
What happens when a person can't give consent?
How severe does the illness have to be? Is it just being diagnosed?

For me, it's too dangerous to have as law. As others have said there is ways and means for people to end theor lives in many cases.

Perhaps the NHS should invest more in palliative care as currently a large percentage has to be done by charity hospices (who do an AMAZING job).

 

[Pubey]

I'm against euthanasia, and not for religious reasons.

I read a quote on Hitler's euthanasia direction which I wish I still had... It basically put a value on human life and said that the disabled had a lesser value (if a value at all).

I just fear that if it was brought in where do we draw the line? I believe that ALL life is valuable and despite illness, disability etc it NEVER loses that precious value.

As soon as we introduce a criteria it will be pushed... Like in Holland.

Would you allow euthanasia for a depressed person?
Would you allow your child to choose euthanasia? At what age? What if you didn't want it, but they did?
What happens when a person can't give consent?
How severe does the illness have to be? Is it just being diagnosed?

For me, it's too dangerous to have as law. As others have said there is ways and means for people to end theor lives in many cases.

Perhaps the NHS should invest more in palliative care as currently a large percentage has to be done by charity hospices (who do an AMAZING job).

hear hear:clap:

 

[Jam_Man]

I'm against euthanasia, and not for religious reasons.

I read a quote on Hitler's euthanasia direction which I wish I still had... It basically put a value on human life and said that the disabled had a lesser value (if a value at all).

I just fear that if it was brought in where do we draw the line? I believe that ALL life is valuable and despite illness, disability etc it NEVER loses that precious value.

As soon as we introduce a criteria it will be pushed... Like in Holland.

Would you allow euthanasia for a depressed person?
Would you allow your child to choose euthanasia? At what age? What if you didn't want it, but they did?
What happens when a person can't give consent?
How severe does the illness have to be? Is it just being diagnosed?

For me, it's too dangerous to have as law. As others have said there is ways and means for people to end theor lives in many cases.

Perhaps the NHS should invest more in palliative care as currently a large percentage has to be done by charity hospices (who do an AMAZING job).

You start off with you are against it. Thats the point Im making, why should it be your belief that affects me to be able to make my own decision religious or otherwise ? If you dont ever want to do it then thats your choice, you may feel different if you are diagnosed with a condition like his.

Putting a value on someone elses life is totally different to putting a value on your own.

Adolf Hitler, despite all his good qualities (road building, the VW Beetle etc) was a maniac, bringing him into any discussion doesnt really hold a lot of value. No one is saying any life isnt valuable despite what he thought.

Its not whether a disabled person should be killed because their life is worth less than others, but whether an individual is entitled to end their suffering through their own choice.

People like Mr Nicklinson who clearly was suffering every day of his life wanted to die and should be allowed to do so.

The other examples you raise are valid and there will be cases where it cant be granted and others where it will be difficult to come to any judgement but that shouldnt deny people who could be left to suffer for years when its clear death is preferable.

Would you allow euthanasia for a depressed person?

No. Its not physical pain and is treatable.

Would you allow your child to choose euthanasia? At what age? What if you didn't want it, but they did?

-Children cant make any decisions, they wouldnt be able to choose for themselves. If my child had brain cancer that was causing them huge suffering that would last for months then yes I would allow it if they asked.

What happens when a person can't give consent?

All depends on why they cant consent. If it was me and I was in a coma with no chance of recovery Id want it ended.

How severe does the illness have to be? Is it just being diagnosed?

Id want the choice if I knew I had a terminal illness that would cause me suffering.

 

[MK Shrimper]

I've often wondered why religious types are so against euthansia. Surely it's like a turbo boost to heaven?

 

[pickledseal]

Interesting all your points are focused around 'I'.

This, for me, is the issue. It's about 'us' as a society and what 'we' want. Do we want my society to make people's lives better not to kill them, whatever the circumstances? Yes please. I started my argument with I but my arguments did not focus on individual reasons and yes I've seen people I love going through incredible pain. I can fully understand the reasons you give.

I think the current law is about right.

 

[pickledseal]

I've often wondered why religious types are so against euthansia. Surely it's like a turbo boost to heaven?

Haha! :) I'll use that in class!

 

[MK Shrimper]

Interesting all your points are focused around 'I'.

This, for me, is the issue. It's about 'us' as a society and what 'we' want. Do we want my society to make people's lives better not to kill them, whatever the circumstances? Yes please. I started my argument with I but my arguments did not focus on individual reasons and yes I've seen people I love going through incredible pain. I can fully understand the reasons you give.

I think the current law is about right.

What if you can't make people's lives better? What if it's just day after day of indignity, pain and suffering until your body finally gives up. The current law is far from right, it's my life, and I should be able to choose to end it when I decide.

 

[Jam_Man]

Interesting all your points are focused around 'I'.

This, for me, is the issue. It's about 'us' as a society and what 'we' want. Do we want my society to make people's lives better not to kill them, whatever the circumstances? Yes please. I started my argument with I but my arguments did not focus on individual reasons and yes I've seen people I love going through incredible pain. I can fully understand the reasons you give.

I think the current law is about right.

Its about 'I' because my life is mine and the choice should be mine not anyone else.Theres the big difference, you think you have the right to decide for others, I dont.

Society can not make peoples lives better if they have terminal cancer and spend their last 6 months suffering a slow painful death.

My mum would have chosen it and I would have fully understood why.

 

[pickledseal]

Its about 'I' because my life is mine and the choice should be mine not anyone else.Theres the big difference, you think you have the right to decide for others, I dont.

Society can not make peoples lives better if they have terminal cancer and spend their last 6 months suffering a slow painful death.

My mum would have chosen it and I would have fully understood why.

But should the law be 'for the greater good' of society - or what the individual wants to do on an emotive case by case basis? I don't think I have the right to decide or others... I think people should make their own decisions, as your man did. It may well have been the right decision for your mum, but do we want this 'solution' to the 'problem' for all?

 

[TrueBlue]

I've often wondered why religious types are so against euthansia. Surely it's like a turbo boost to heaven?

Its not because the Lord should be the one that chooses our time, or so they think