Rbs

[MK Shrimper]

Why shouldn't he?

If you are going to blame one man for the losses, you have to 'blame' one man for the profits. He has made RBS far far more than £24 billion profit during his time at RBS. Despite all the cr*p, if I was Fred, I'd also want my take of the profits over the past few years.

The only point I could possibly agree to, would be if his pension is deferred until RBS start making profits again based on his decisions and investments.

But those profits have obviously been wiped out by the massive debts, can't cherry pick the good times and ignore the bad.

Goodwin is surely the primary cause why RBS workers are facing an uncertain future and possibly the loss of their homes.

 

[Einstein]

Slightly worrying what the rest of the world is like then. When I was a student physio it was unbelievable the amount of people who come in and try and con you they are injured to get you to sign their sick notes.

Shamefully, that is just the human race these days. Nothing to do with just the UK.

As I have daily dealings with a wide range of countries, the UK definitely employs some of the hardest working people in the world.

Try doing business with someone in the Caribbean. One day I received a the staggering response of "I'm by the office pool. It's just too hot today to work man" said in the best Caribbean accent possible. That's just the tip of the iceberg of some of the response. Sometimes I'm completely baffled whether they are joking or not.

They don't need sick notes. They just do as they please.

 

[steveo]

The £24 billion figure is a bit misleading for a start. £16 billion of that is a "write-down", which basically means they just 'overvalued' what ABN was worth.

Thats quite a substantial miss valuation thought Einstien.

If a staff member does their job, how they have been instructed to, then yes they should get their bonus, but some people at the top level shouldnt be rewarded for losing so much money.

 

[Einstein]

Goodwin is surely the primary cause why RBS workers are facing an uncertain future and possibly the loss of their homes.

It depends what you refer to as primary cause. All large decisions still need to be ratified by shareholders & boards etc. He just recommended them based on the advice put in front of him.

But those profits have obviously been wiped out by the massive debts, can't cherry pick the good times and ignore the bad.

As I said above, it wouldn't be ignoring the bad. He should not be paid during the bad, but when RDS starts showing the profits again, and it will, then he should be financially secure in my opinion as he is still the man who put them there.

 

[Einstein]

Thats quite a substantial miss valuation thought Einstien.

It is an unbelievable 'mistake', however I still feel it should be put in some context.

RBS paid £63bn for ABN. Effectively they are now saying it is worth £47bn. (My assumption - I haven't had the time to look through the accounts today, but I will at some point)

Let's compare to a house price. You buy a house for £315,000. It's now worth £235,000.

In the current market, that is entirely feasible.

 

[Mad Cyril]

Thats quite a substantial miss valuation thought Einstien.

If it isn't your cash you are playing with the sense of loss can't be as great.

I would Imagine it feels like buying a Hillman Avenger for £50 and two weeks later the clutch going.

If you haven't insured it or returned the log book you can just walk away from it with a clear conscience.

 

[steveo]

I would Imagine it feels like buying a Hillman Avenger for £50 and two weeks later the clutch going.

If you haven't returned the log book you can just walk away from it with a clear conscience.

I think I would try and get a replacement from Mr Clutch Cyril, be a shame to waste such a fine vehicle:

 

[Southminster_Shrimper]

But those profits have obviously been wiped out by the massive debts, can't cherry pick the good times and ignore the bad.

Goodwin is surely the primary cause why RBS workers are facing an uncertain future and possibly the loss of their homes.

Think I read somewhere he was paid £13m while he was at RBS....if thats not enough for one person "while he was employed" I dont know what is.

I doubt he is having too much trouble sleeping at night to be honest.

He got greedy when he went for ABN Amro and got caught with his trousers down when the worlds financial organisations fell apart. He like others are paid very well to spot this sort of thing coming and for him to say "I didnt see it" has to be just absolute rubbish.

 

[Mad Cyril]

Let's compare to a house price. You buy a house for £315,000. It's now worth £235,000.

In the current market, that is entirely feasible.

Since I moved into my neighbourhood some would say it is not just feasable but inevitable with the alarming rise in abandoned motors with knackered clutches.

 

[Perth Bambi]

Now I am not expert at any of this so I may be totally wrong when I say this and hopefully someone will point it out.

I assume this pension that he is getting is a work pension, therefore he has paid part of his salary for the whole time he has been working for them and this is now being paid back to him? If so then how can people argue about him getting it? Rightly or wrongly he has been paid this wage through a very good period in the finiancial system.

I guess I will compare if to a football manager. Tilly took us through a very good period in the clubs history and wsa probably paid accordingly. Recently there has been a slight downturn. If he was to get us relegated this year and left the job would we expect him to pay back some of the money he has been paid over the last few years (I know it isn't quite the same paying back wages but I assume football managers don't have work pensions)

I will wait for those in the know to tell me where I am going wrong.

 

[Southminster_Shrimper]

Now I am not expert at any of this so I may be totally wrong when I say this and hopefully someone will point it out.

I assume this pension that he is getting is a work pension, therefore he has paid part of his salary for the whole time he has been working for them and this is now being paid back to him? If so then how can people argue about him getting it? Rightly or wrongly he has been paid this wage through a very good period in the finiancial system.

I guess I will compare if to a football manager. Tilly took us through a very good period in the clubs history and wsa probably paid accordingly. Recently there has been a slight downturn. If he was to get us relegated this year and left the job would we expect him to pay back some of the money he has been paid over the last few years (I know it isn't quite the same paying back wages but I assume football managers don't have work pensions)

I will wait for those in the know to tell me where I am going wrong.

How about this....

SUFC manager takes the club to 4th in the Prem earning £13m in his own wages
Within a year from then, the club collapses due to a monumentally wrong decision made by that manager
But at the last minute ColU became the majority shareholder of SUFC to rescue it from oblivion

Still happy to pay £650k per year for said manager until he croaks it?

 

[Perth Bambi]

How about this....

SUFC manager takes the club to 4th in the Prem earning £13m in his own wages
Within a year from then, the club collapses due to a monumentally wrong decision made by that manager
But at the last minute ColU became the majority shareholder of SUFC to rescue it from oblivion

Still happy to pay £650k per year for said manager until he croaks it?

But my point is that surely that £650k a year was from his salary in the first place and if he had decided not to pay into his pension scheme he would have received a bigger wage after all the outgoings.

 

[Southminster_Shrimper]

But my point is that surely that £650k a year was from his salary in the first place and if he had decided not to pay into his pension scheme he would have received a bigger wage after all the outgoings.

Not bad for 10 years work really then....

Not sure he would of got a larger wage by not contributing to a pension....think the opt out option wasnt available when he joined although could be wrong.

Dont think him getting a pension is an issue as such. Its the size of the pension that is the problem and the fact hes only 50.

Cant see that given the circumstances when he cant say its his fault, that he should be paid such a huge amount of money for a mere 10 years service.

 

[Firestorm]

Surely RBS could not use the blokes pension for anything other than pensions ? aren't companies Pension funds protected ever since Mr Maxwell ?

However I would guess a sizeable proportion of his pensionable fund was made up of employer contributions as well as employee.

My guess is its not a pension in the way that we are all referring, rather more a severance package which provides a set annual sum, in which case he is being rewarded for the mistakes , in as much that he would not have been laid off if he had not have made the mistakes. However as his "reward" is less than he would be being paid had he not cocked up it could also be argued that it is not a reward.

 

[WickfordShrimper]

From the Beeb

Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) has announced the largest annual loss in UK corporate history.

RBS, which had to be bailed out by the government last year, said that its 2008 loss totalled £24.1bn (£34.2bn).


And they have the cheek to ring me when I miss a credit card payment !!!!

sadly this is the reason why banks are in the ****.... millions of customers not paying the banks back what the owe...

 

[Firestorm]

sadly this is the reason why banks are in the ****.... millions of customers not paying the banks back what the owe...

True, although whilst I may be described as toxic my debt never has been

 

[The Flying Scotsman]

I'd blame the remuneration committee, after all they're the ones who determined his package.

 

[Southend_Lady]

Just seen on web that there could be as many as 20,000 job losses! That's madness.

 

[Ricey]

Just seen on web that there could be as many as 20,000 job losses! That's madness.

No actually this is madness! ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJOLwy7un3U

The world econmy is a joke at the moment when will it ever end?

 

[The Flying Scotsman]

We're doomed! Doomed I tell ya!