Qualifications

[MK Shrimper]

I don't want any trouble makers sorting out my clutch or unblocking my drainage than you very much.

Ah but they'd start to enjoy themselves and become well rounded members of society who could tinker with your big end to their hearts content :winking:

 

[Mad Cyril]

Just out of interest, at what point would you want your son/daughter labelled academic or vocational?

As early as possible so I can start spending the money put aside for university fees.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Personally, I think the vocational route is not really an option as young as 13. There would be so many cases where teachers and parents would differ in their views on an individual child, and I think it would be terribly demoralising for a child who has high aspirations to be told they're not up to it at such a young age.

This is where I think the old GCE/CSE exams were good. Children could be entered into one of two tiers depending on their academic ability and progress. As I understand, you had a GCE stream and a CSE stream and then differentiated within those according to ability. It meant that a pupil would be entered for an exam they had a reasonable chance of passing. and also allowed for CSEs to be awarded in more vocational subjects.

It's back to basics for me though, we have so many people in pretty good jobs who don't seem to have the basics of English skills - using "there" instead of "their" for instance. It galls me to sit in an English lesson where the focus is on, say punctuation, and not being able to correct spellings because that's not the focus!

I think basic finance skills should be taught, balancing a cheque book is pretty much a lost art....but then, as I understand, so is balancing a till these days! I also think basic house keeping should be taught, how to fend for yourself - sewing a button on, cooking simple meals etc - domestic science as it was called in my day! - but also things like how to wire a plug. Practical and useful stuff.

 

[Neil_F]

Im with Martin Lewis on the fact that children and teenagers at school need a much better education and grounding in basic personal finance.

I would recommend bringing in a third party to teach that. The teaching profession have demonstrated a woefully inadequate understanding of the pension system so I wouldn't let them loose on children with financial planning advice.

I remember a conversation with a group of teachers who insisted they paid more into their pension than they would ever get out, though none of them could explain why they were members if that were the case. They then proceeded to argue that the government should just print more money so that teachers could be paid more. It was all about the kids...

 

[Fiftyone]

The basics; reading and writing and numeracy. I teach MSc level economics at a Russell Group uni, and some of the students (not all UK) struggle to write coherent essays and have poor numeracy skills. Some MSc's feel watered down because you're making up for gaps in their undergrad education, which in turn is making up for A-levels.

Personal finance and organisation is important as well.

It's also important to remember that it's not just the subject that they're learning, but important learning skills as well - working in groups, presentations, reading and summarising information, critiquing etc.

Could we not paraphrase your last paragraph as "learning how to bull****".:smile:

 

[Pubey]

Could we not paraphrase your last paragraph as "learning how to bull****".:smile:

Nothing like being prepared for real work!

 

[Up the Shrimpers]

I think the lack of discipline and respect for others is what's missing here. Kids have such an unruly attitude now, that there is no desire to learn, and the consequences of not learning or trying at school doesn't strike fear into anyone. If these issues were addressed, then you would find far less illiterate and ill educated children. But parents need to buy into this too.

We have so many tools to make learning interesting and relevant to kids as well, we need to use these; long gone are the days of textbooks and pencils. There will be more knowledge sitting in a child's pocket, than any teacher can deliver. Utilise these, something a child is interested in.

I see kids as young as seven answering back parents, making demands and generally adopting bullying attitudes. Lazy parents allow them to do this in order to have an easy life, it's easier to give them what they want instead of arguing the toss. This attitude gets taken into school, and subsequently work. The respect workers have for their bosses is nothing like it used to be. Respect is disappearing, learning the value of working for reward (pocket money/present/kudos/wages) will come, and the desire to learn to increase your opportunity for reward if discipline and respect is used rightly.

Speaking of reward, this needs to be improved for teachers too. It's such a tough job, and with kids becoming more undermining and aggressively challenging, the reward for attempting to educate our children, where so many parents are too lazy or unwilling support them themselves, need to be in line with the increasingly role teaching has become. Inflation of pay shouldn't just be in line with cost of living.

I like Davros' point of personal finance too. It's difficult to teach to children, but it's value is priceless in today's world of pay day loans and wobbly economy.

It was much more unruly at my senior school back in the early 1980's than it is at my son's senior school today.

 

[Davros]

I would recommend bringing in a third party to teach that. The teaching profession have demonstrated a woefully inadequate understanding of the pension system so I wouldn't let them loose on children with financial planning advice.

I remember a conversation with a group of teachers who insisted they paid more into their pension than they would ever get out, though none of them could explain why they were members if that were the case. They then proceeded to argue that the government should just print more money so that teachers could be paid more. It was all about the kids...

It could actually be a pretty handy initiative, if you expand this further, where banks could have people who went into schools and gave children workshops in financial planning, and in return the bank would be able to exclusivly offer young persons savings accounts etc to those children.

 

[Pubey]

It could actually be a pretty handy initiative, if you expand this further, where banks could have people who went into schools and gave children workshops in financial planning, and in return the bank would be able to exclusivly offer young persons savings accounts etc to those children.

At WHSB we had this. HSBC or Natwest I think had some kids bank club or something (sounds a bit Saville).

 

[southend4ever]

Can't we just employ the bad kids as slaves?

 

[Davros]

Can't we just employ the bad kids as slaves?

or even worse, send them to work in Lidl

 

[TrueBlue]

You can have all the qualifications in the world but if you a non personality no mark who is as dull as dishwater and can't sell it in a interview then YOU ARE ****ED!

Human first
Qualifications second

 

[Napster]

You can have all the qualifications in the world but if you a non personality no mark who is as dull as dishwater and can't sell it in a interview then YOU ARE ****ED!

Human first
Qualifications second

:hilarious::hilarious:

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Personally, I think the vocational route is not really an option as young as 13. There would be so many cases where teachers and parents would differ in their views on an individual child, and I think it would be terribly demoralising for a child who has high aspirations to be told they're not up to it at such a young age.

This is where I think the old GCE/CSE exams were good. Children could be entered into one of two tiers depending on their academic ability and progress. As I understand, you had a GCE stream and a CSE stream and then differentiated within those according to ability. It meant that a pupil would be entered for an exam they had a reasonable chance of passing. and also allowed for CSEs to be awarded in more vocational subjects.

It's back to basics for me though, we have so many people in pretty good jobs who don't seem to have the basics of English skills - using "there" instead of "their" for instance. It galls me to sit in an English lesson where the focus is on, say punctuation, and not being able to correct spellings because that's not the focus!

I think basic finance skills should be taught, balancing a cheque book is pretty much a lost art....but then, as I understand, so is balancing a till these days! I also think basic house keeping should be taught, how to fend for yourself - sewing a button on, cooking simple meals etc - domestic science as it was called in my day! - but also things like how to wire a plug. Practical and useful stuff.

How do you balance a cheque book?

Is this not a lost art because it's an obsolete one that has no relevance to the modern world? We should be teaching on-line banking not encouraging inefficiency.

I agree we should be teaching people to be self-sufficient.

Teaching people how credit works, how engines work and how to fix a car, cooking and what's a healthy diet - these aren't just useful skills but can also lead onto careers.

You can have all the qualifications in the world but if you a non personality no mark who is as dull as dishwater and can't sell it in a interview then YOU ARE ****ED!

Human first
Qualifications second

Unless you work in IT.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Unless you work in IT.

Or medicine, building, finance, engineering....etc

 

[Mad Cyril]

Unless you work in IT.

IT qualifications and most (not all) computer science degrees are not particularly highly regarded by employers.

In my experience I have found candidates from Maths/Physics/Engineering backgrounds to be better problem solvers.

 

[Pubey]

IT qualifications and most (not all) computer science degrees are not particularly highly regarded by employers.

In my experience I have found candidates from Maths/Physics/Engineering backgrounds to be better problem solvers.

 

[OldBlueLady]

At WHSB we had this. HSBC or Natwest I think had some kids bank club or something (sounds a bit Saville).

HSBC, I think, probably when they were still Midland Bank. School Banks were pioneered by Midland Bank from memory, Westcliff branch for WHSB. Staff did go in and train pupils to do all the transactions.

How do you balance a cheque book?
Is this not a lost art because it's an obsolete one that has no relevance to the modern world? We should be teaching on-line banking not encouraging inefficiency.

Being able to balance a cheque book means you know exactly how much money is in your bank account and therefore being able to prevent going overdrawn. Should you have a fraud perpetrated on your account, it would be much easier to identify it too. Everyone should, in theory, know how much is in their bank, or how much of an overdraft facility is available.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

Well something has gone wrong that's for sure - I see kids of 19 and 20 at my place of work with A grades as long as your arm but they simply can't spell! How are they achieving these high grades I just don't know. Already most of our good universities are insisting on additional entrance exams as they obviously don't trust the present GCSE and A level marks. Telling someone they are great is easy actually becoming great is something all together different.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Well something has gone wrong that's for sure - I see kids of 19 and 20 at my place of work with A grades as long as your arm but they simply can't spell! How are they achieving these high grades I just don't know. Already most of our good universities are insisting on additional entrance exams as they obviously don't trust the present GCSE and A level marks. Telling someone they are great is easy actually becoming great is something all together different.

I think I've mentioned it somewhere else, spelling isn't the focus. If a child can punctuate, that seems to be far more important than the ability to spell. You get to 3 spelling corrections in a piece of writing.....that's about it. Any more spelling problems highlighted is deemed as demoralising! It's a tricky job....keep praising the child for a wonderfully written, beautifully visual piece of work or tell them they've spelt every other word wrong?!

Children largely write as they speak, some can recognise that and adapt their writing, others can't.