Qualifications

[pickledseal]

So now we're getting new style A-Levels as well as EBaccs for 2015.

All of this is done without much consultation, and least of all with schools.

I'm all for driving up standards, removing mediocrity from our schools and genuinely rewarding those who work hard.

On here we have a range of academics, skilled workers, parents, students etc...

What would be the best qualifications schools could offer to best prepare all students? What would have worked best for you? Want do you want for your kids?

 

[southend4ever]

The art of bullsh*t would be a good study.
More analytical and mental arithmetic based qualifications.
Practical skills - e.g. all those jobs around the house that this new era look in the Yellow Advertiser for.
I think languages should be optional - I think Spanish would be a better option as a classic holiday destination.
With families less likely to be able to aford university our kids need to be more prepared for the real world.
Work placements would be good etc.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Just need to split the academically minded kids from those who'd fare better learning a trade and drop the requirement of every kids needing to go to University.

Oh, look just like they used to.

 

[southend4ever]

Just need to split the academically minded kids from those who'd fare better learning a trade and drop the requirement of every kids needing to go to University.

Oh, look just like they used to.

absolutely. kids get bored of study and quite frankly there is a lot of information that goes in one ear and out the other at school.

Why did I learn about Macbeth and Romeo and Juliet, why did I study Art, why did I learn how to use a soldering iron, why did I study Religous Education... the list goes on...

 

[Neil_F]

Many of the new graduates that my former employer took on had poor literacy skills and only a token understanding of mathematics. These were Russell group graduates with a series of high grades at A Level.

The teaching profession needs to understand that competition for the top jobs is now global rather than local. Products of the British education system cannot compete with the thousands of skilled engineers, scientists and mathematicians being turned out in Asia.

 

[Jam_Man]

absolutely. kids get bored of study and quite frankly there is a lot of information that goes in one ear and out the other at school.

Why did I learn about Macbeth and Romeo and Juliet, why did I study Art, why did I learn how to use a soldering iron, why did I study Religous Education... the list goes on...

Haha, I got an o-level in Religious Education.

To this day I have no idea why I took it. I do find religion interesting but Im 100% atheist and I have no recollection in why I did it, other than I knew Id pass it.

Problem is I now generally leave it off of my CV as I find it a bit embarrassing and dont want to be thought of as a religious person by the interviewer.

 

[Davros]

Im with Martin Lewis on the fact that children and teenagers at school need a much better education and grounding in basic personal finance. In essence, this is something that parents should teach chidlren, but with so many useless parents out there, as usual, it is left up to schools, who currently fall short in what is a very necessary area of life.

 

[Davros]

Haha, I got an o-level in Religious Education.

To this day I have no idea why I took it. I do find religion interesting but Im 100% atheist and I have no recollection in why I did it, other than I knew Id pass it.

Problem is I now generally leave it off of my CV as I find it a bit embarrassing and dont want to be thought of as a religious person by the interviewer.

Probably a good thing to have on your cv in this era of social intergration and diversity, matched with buracracy and box ticking etc?

 

[Pubey]

The basics; reading and writing and numeracy. I teach MSc level economics at a Russell Group uni, and some of the students (not all UK) struggle to write coherent essays and have poor numeracy skills. Some MSc's feel watered down because you're making up for gaps in their undergrad education, which in turn is making up for A-levels.

Personal finance and organisation is important as well.

It's also important to remember that it's not just the subject that they're learning, but important learning skills as well - working in groups, presentations, reading and summarising information, critiquing etc.

 

[southend4ever]

The basics; reading and writing and numeracy. I teach MSc level economics at a Russell Group uni, and some of the students (not all UK) struggle to write coherent essays and have poor numeracy skills. Some MSc's feel watered down because you're making up for gaps in their undergrad education, which in turn is making up for A-levels.

Personal finance and organisation is important as well.

It's also important to remember that it's not just the subject that they're learning, but important learning skills as well - working in groups, presentations, reading and summarising information, critiquing etc.

Do you think you can teach/coach organisation?

I know there are courses out there on how to better manage your time which could be construed as organisation.

 

[Pubey]

Do you think you can teach/coach organisation?

I know there are courses out there on how to better manage your time which could be construed as organisation.

I don't think it's necessarily something that you teach, but just through the experience of going to school it's something that should be developed. I guess it's why coursework is a major assessment method, it shows that you're organised, able to research, are self-motivated, can work independently etc. These are all important skills for when you work.

 

[Mad Cyril]

As I have mentioned before I think most children would benefit from five years in an austere military boarding school that enforces the concept that todays soldier is an army of one.

 

[Mad Cyril]

Many of the new graduates that my former employer took on had poor literacy skills and only a token understanding of mathematics. These were Russell group graduates with a series of high grades at A Level.

The teaching profession needs to understand that competition for the top jobs is now global rather than local. Products of the British education system cannot compete with the thousands of skilled engineers, scientists and mathematicians being turned out in Asia.

It always worries me when someone mentions the fact that they attended a Russell group university on their CV.

 

[southend4ever]

I don't think it's necessarily something that you teach, but just through the experience of going to school it's something that should be developed. I guess it's why coursework is a major assessment method, it shows that you're organised, able to research, are self-motivated, can work independently etc. These are all important skills for when you work.

Don't parents help with coursework when at school so it is never an accurate reflection of the indivual but more so their parents? :smile:

 

[Blue_Wes]

I think the lack of discipline and respect for others is what's missing here. Kids have such an unruly attitude now, that there is no desire to learn, and the consequences of not learning or trying at school doesn't strike fear into anyone. If these issues were addressed, then you would find far less illiterate and ill educated children. But parents need to buy into this too.

We have so many tools to make learning interesting and relevant to kids as well, we need to use these; long gone are the days of textbooks and pencils. There will be more knowledge sitting in a child's pocket, than any teacher can deliver. Utilise these, something a child is interested in.

I see kids as young as seven answering back parents, making demands and generally adopting bullying attitudes. Lazy parents allow them to do this in order to have an easy life, it's easier to give them what they want instead of arguing the toss. This attitude gets taken into school, and subsequently work. The respect workers have for their bosses is nothing like it used to be. Respect is disappearing, learning the value of working for reward (pocket money/present/kudos/wages) will come, and the desire to learn to increase your opportunity for reward if discipline and respect is used rightly.

Speaking of reward, this needs to be improved for teachers too. It's such a tough job, and with kids becoming more undermining and aggressively challenging, the reward for attempting to educate our children, where so many parents are too lazy or unwilling support them themselves, need to be in line with the increasingly role teaching has become. Inflation of pay shouldn't just be in line with cost of living.

I like Davros' point of personal finance too. It's difficult to teach to children, but it's value is priceless in today's world of pay day loans and wobbly economy.

 

[southend4ever]

Have some green Wes. Nail on head.

 

[Davros]

I think the lack of discipline and respect for others is what's missing here. Kids have such an unruly attitude now, that there is no desire to learn, and the consequences of not learning or trying at school doesn't strike fear into anyone. If these issues were addressed, then you would find far less illiterate and ill educated children. But parents need to buy into this too.

We have so many tools to make learning interesting and relevant to kids as well, we need to use these; long gone are the days of textbooks and pencils. There will be more knowledge sitting in a child's pocket, than any teacher can deliver. Utilise these, something a child is interested in.

I see kids as young as seven answering back parents, making demands and generally adopting bullying attitudes. Lazy parents allow them to do this in order to have an easy life, it's easier to give them what they want instead of arguing the toss. This attitude gets taken into school, and subsequently work. The respect workers have for their bosses is nothing like it used to be. Respect is disappearing, learning the value of working for reward (pocket money/present/kudos/wages) will come, and the desire to learn to increase your opportunity for reward if discipline and respect is used rightly.

Speaking of reward, this needs to be improved for teachers too. It's such a tough job, and with kids becoming more undermining and aggressively challenging, the reward for attempting to educate our children, where so many parents are too lazy or unwilling support them themselves, need to be in line with the increasingly role teaching has become. Inflation of pay shouldn't just be in line with cost of living.

I like Davros' point of personal finance too. It's difficult to teach to children, but it's value is priceless in today's world of pay day loans and wobbly economy.

as is sex education, but being able to understand your personal finance is just as important as understanding how to put a condom on... you could say the two can be inextricably linked should the condom split!

I do agree with your points above though. The main problem is, children understand their rights far quicker than they learn their responsabilities, be that through access to technology, poorer parenting, and to an extent the claim culture, and this has a direct impact on the will to learn.. ie - "why should i learn and get a job, as i have a right to state support".

 

[pickledseal]

Just need to split the academically minded kids from those who'd fare better learning a trade and drop the requirement of every kids needing to go to University.

Oh, look just like they used to.

Just out of interest, at what point would you want your son/daughter labelled academic or vocational?

 

[MK Shrimper]

Just out of interest, at what point would you want your son/daughter labelled academic or vocational?

I would imagine that by 13 a teacher would know what route would best suit a child. Schools seem to want to pander to the lowest common denominator these days. A friend of mine's teenage son is a clever kid and when she asked why he doesn't get any homework the response was "well it won't get done by the troublemakers".

Take those troublemakers out and give them the option to learn to fix cars/plumb houses/plaster walls etc etc.

 

[C C Csiders]

I would imagine that by 13 a teacher would know what route would best suit a child. Schools seem to want to pander to the lowest common denominator these days. A friend of mine's teenage son is a clever kid and when she asked why he doesn't get any homework the response was "well it won't get done by the troublemakers".

Take those troublemakers out and give them the option to learn to fix cars/plumb houses/plaster walls etc etc.

I don't want any trouble makers sorting out my clutch or unblocking my drainage than you very much.