Player loyalty

[Jai]

You can't blame players for wanting to move up a division asap. Payne can quadruple his wages very easily now just by moving up one league and in a short career it is tempting. 20 years ago, there would be been a slight nudge up in pay but enough to make someone think seriously about staying with a lower-division club if they were comfortable there and were enjoying their football.

Teams up the top of the Championship are paying their players £15,000-20,000 a week. At the bottom of the Premier League it is £50,000 a week or more.

You can't blame the players really. The saddest thing is in 20 years time I have no idea if I will remember Jack Payne or not. Players don't stick around for the chance to be heroes or club legends anymore. People at all levels of the game are so quick when moving up to gush about their new club's great history, but they don't want to be part of creating that history for the club they've just left. It's nice to see Leicester doing well as it gives us all a bit of hope but really with the new TV deal coming in it will be very short-lived hope.

 

[londonblue]

Yep - I must say i am pretty disillusioned with Jack Payne, he has gone down in my estimation, is it greed that he is going.

I think he came up through the youth scheme, which means SUFC have given him a chance and SUFC have invested good money in him, with the hope that he will repay them one day when he makes the first team, not leave at the first chance he has and to let some other club reap the benefit that SUFC has paid for.

When i take on apprentices i want them to remain loyal to me, as i am investing in them to benefit my company for the future, not to invest in them so that when they come out of their time they can go self employed and benefit a competitor of mine.

Snr.

I understand what you're saying, but don't necessarily agree. As much as it would be nice for people to show loyalty it doesn't really work that way. As you say, you take on apprentices and want them to stay loyal, but you can't make them. The same is true with SUFC.

I don't know what business you're in, but I suspect in your industry all young, newly qualified will earn pretty much the same regardless of company. The same isn't true in football, meaning that it is very easy to entice a player away from their current club.

 

[londonblue]

Payne's running before he can walk. He's not even had a full season in the team here

That may or may not be true. No-one knows just yet. If he wants to push himself to be the best he can be, he has to take that chance and see what happens.

 

[londonblue]

Isn't that just a rumour?

No. PB mentioned it on the radio after the game on Saturday. However, Payne didn't send it, his agent did. I'm not sure why that's an issue, it's no different to sending a letter, and it is now documented, whereas a conversation wouldn't be.

 

[kaymac]

So, a general concensus appears to be it's more money-orientated with Jack than improving his career at a bigger club and/or in a higher league? Personally regard agents as little more than parasites and more fool those that listen to them and believe the hype.

 

[MK Shrimper]

I'm sure you'd all be loyal to your employer if someone came in and offered to triple or quadruple your income.

 

[rlb999]

Threads like this are complete nonsense - banging on about player loyalty - we only ever hear about this when it's a player you want to retain. If you'd decided Jack was surplus to requirements there would be no loyalty from you - you'd want him out. Throughout this season there's been LOTS of chatter on this forum telling various players to leave - White, Mooney, Hurst, Kamara, O'Neill - to name but a few. And if the manager loses the first 5 games of next season, will you be loyal to him or will you be screaming for his replacement? You only want loyalty when it suits you - players you like should be 'loyal' and players you don't can bugger off. The position of fans regarding loyalty is completely ridiculous.

 

[londonblue]

I think Payne has secured himself an indifferent reception, should he ever return with another club, up there on a par with 'Dream move' bailey. There will be some who no doubt will aplaud his short service, but an auful lot who wont.

You're probably right, but that's the fans' problem, not his. He's not really done anything wrong. He signed a contract, and has seen it out to the best of his ability.

I'm a contractor, and I don't have any loyalty to the company I'm currently with. If, at the end of my contract, something better comes along I'll be out of here like a shot. Why wouldn't I be? Why would I expect any different from a footballer?

 

[hamiltonblue]

Loyalty works both ways. I'm disappointed at Payne's decision but you can bet if he'd underperformed this year we'd be packing him on his way pretty quickly.

Agreed, look at Prosser, I'd say he was pretty loyal to the club, even with having quote a torrid start to his Southend tenure, both in form and from the fans. Yet look how he's been treated and, from what I gather, for standing up for himself and speaking his mind to the manager.

People are quick to point the loyalty finger at players but it does swing both ways.

 

[londonblue]

Most likely to be down to his agent- after all if Jack's earning more the agent earns more too

Most likely down to JP himself wanting to test himself at a higher level. After the 2nd half of this season I bet his agent has had people sounding him out quite regularly. He's probably (quite rightly) passed that information on to JP, who has then asked him to investigate further.

 

[Ricky Otto]

That would be extremely short sighted and sad if so. Jack has come through our Youth Academy, he is "our" product, we should be proud of his achievements - even if we are disappointed he would appear to be looking to move on. I felt (feel) quite motherly towards him and Dan, it's exactly like a parent wanting the best for their child as they look to leave home for the first time....at the end of the day, they have to make their own choices in exactly the same way.

You do know the players personally though with your work with junior blues etc. I'm sure he is a great lad and I certainly wouldn't class him in the same way as Bailey! I do understand the indifference though as I will approach him in that way should he return, no boos or anything petty like that as like you mentioned before he hasn't really done anything wrong. I realise he has come through the youth system and is one of our own but his 1st run of good form and he's off. He's done no wrong but shown no loyalty so he cant really expect to be remembered fondly.

 

[E for B and Billy Best]

Threads like this are complete nonsense - banging on about player loyalty - we only ever hear about this when it's a player you want to retain. If you'd decided Jack was surplus to requirements there would be no loyalty from you - you'd want him out. Throughout this season there's been LOTS of chatter on this forum telling various players to leave - White, Mooney, Hurst, Kamara, O'Neill - to name but a few. And if the manager loses the first 5 games of next season, will you be loyal to him or will you be screaming for his replacement? You only want loyalty when it suits you - players you like should be 'loyal' and players you don't can bugger off. The position of fans regarding loyalty is completely ridiculous.

Absolutely spot on.

 

[rlb999]

Agreed, look at Prosser, I'd say he was pretty loyal to the club, even with having quote a torrid start to his Southend tenure, both in form and from the fans. Yet look how he's been treated and, from what I gather, for standing up for himself and speaking his mind to the manager.

People are quick to point the loyalty finger at players but it does swing both ways.

Prosser is the classic example. You put some roots down, do things the right way, and things can still go wrong and you're out looking for a new employer - that's the life of a footballer. Any footballer who's out of contract this summer doesn't have an income to support their family after this July - if that was you, how much of a sweat would you have on? For that reason if a club in a higher league comes and offers ANY of our players the chance to earn in 1 season what they could in 5 seasons with us, how can you expect them NOT to take it? Loyalty doesn't come into it - it's simple common sense.

 

[Ricky Otto]

Prosser is the classic example. You put some roots down, do things the right way, and things can still go wrong and you're out looking for a new employer - that's the life of a footballer. Any footballer who's out of contract this summer doesn't have an income to support their family after this July - if that was you, how much of a sweat would you have on? For that reason if a club in a higher league comes and offers ANY of our players the chance to earn in 1 season what they could in 5 seasons with us, how can you expect them NOT to take it? Loyalty doesn't come into it - it's simple common sense.

Fair enough, but where does this "chance to earn in 1 season what they could in 5 seasons with us" or 4 times the amount MK mentions come from? PB has said in the echo that we couldn't have offered him any more and I'm sure for tribunal purposes it was a very good offer so maybe £2.5-3k? Do we honestly think Jack is going to get £10-15k?

 

[londonblue]

Fair enough, but where does this "chance to earn in 1 season what they could in 5 seasons with us" or 4 times the amount MK mentions come from? PB has said in the echo that we couldn't have offered him any more and I'm sure for tribunal purposes it was a very good offer so maybe £2.5-3k? Do we honestly think Jack is going to get £10-15k?

I imagine if he signs for a team such as Wolves he probably would. Don't forget the Championship is the 5th richest league in the world...or at least it was. Even if it has dropped down the pecking order a bit, it is still a very rich league.

 

[TrueBlue]

Whatever we think, Jack's done nothing wrong. He's behaved perfectly well, having just scooped all 3 awards at the Trust's End of Season awards this evening, saying some very nice words about what the Trust's support of the Youth team has meant to him personally.

Every young footballer wants to improve themselves, Jack's seen his contract out, given his all whenever he's played and is entitled to move on if that is what he (and his agent) feel is best. Doesn't really matter what we think, although I am also in the camp of feeling it's a season too soon.

I don't blame him at all.

He's ungreatful lacks loyalty and respect

 

[Napster]

According to recent figures last season, average basic pay in the Championship was £324,250 per player per year, before appearance money and bonuses, while it was £69,500 in League One and £40,350 in League Two. So, yes Payney can almost treble his earnings if he moved up a division.

ps last season, top-flight players earned just over five times as much as Championship players, almost 25 times as much as League One players, and around 42 times as much as League Two players, whose basic average salaries are roughly the same as the national average household income of almost £40,000.

 

[rigsby]

Wayne Rooney could have paid last seasons wage bill for every players and coach at our club with just six weeks of his salary. I mean just his Man U earnings and not his endorsements etc.

Gary Hooper is on 27,000 per week.

 

[Spenser]

Threads like this are complete nonsense - banging on about player loyalty - we only ever hear about this when it's a player you want to retain. If you'd decided Jack was surplus to requirements there would be no loyalty from you - you'd want him out. Throughout this season there's been LOTS of chatter on this forum telling various players to leave - White, Mooney, Hurst, Kamara, O'Neill - to name but a few. And if the manager loses the first 5 games of next season, will you be loyal to him or will you be screaming for his replacement? You only want loyalty when it suits you - players you like should be 'loyal' and players you don't can bugger off. The position of fans regarding loyalty is completely ridiculous.

Quite.

A lot of people seem to take this personally with cries of 'disloyalty', 'betrayal' etc etc.
It goes with the territory - it's football. Players and managers come and go for all sorts of reasons.
Who are we to sit in judgement of a young man's personal circumstances and/or ambition ?

If I was 22 and had worked in (lets say) a bank or a building firm for 5/6 years and got offered a job on a lot more money with better prospects by a competitor, should I stay and be loyal ?

I spoke to both Payne and Bentley on Saturday and they both struck me as patient, polite guys doing part of their job.

 

[Jai]

According to recent figures last season, average basic pay in the Championship was £324,250 per player per year, before appearance money and bonuses, while it was £69,500 in League One and £40,350 in League Two. So, yes Payney can almost treble his earnings if he moved up a division.

ps last season, top-flight players earned just over five times as much as Championship players, almost 25 times as much as League One players, and around 42 times as much as League Two players, whose basic average salaries are roughly the same as the national average household income of almost £40,000.

So all those Championship chairman who wanted 'Premier League 2' a few years back have got their wish. The top two divisions are becoming a closed shop by stealth and it's only going to get worse.