Our style vs. hoofball... is there a difference?

[Onion_Bag_Dave]

I'd be happy to be winning too, except we've not actually been doing that most recently have we .. whilst i admire your enthusiasm Dave once you've racked up 30+ years of watching you too WILL develop into an old misery guts like most of us oldies :smile:

NO CHANCE!

I'm half way there at the moment. There is no way I will ever become a boring miserable pessimistic bloke such as yourselves.

You are right we haven't been winning, but I have learnt quickly that football is all about ups and downs, and I will be appreciating the good times that we are experiencing at the moment, although in the last few weeks it hasn't been great. It also hasn't been the end of the world. I'll say it again, we will probably go on another winning streak soon and the Zone will be like the ****ing happy farm again, and then we will probably lose a few and everyone will be organising their own wake.

BARMY ARMY!

 

[BLUEBLOOD]

NO CHANCE!

I'm half way there at the moment. There is no way I will ever become a boring miserable pessimistic bloke such as yourselves.

You are right we haven't been winning, but I have learnt quickly that football is all about ups and downs, and I will be appreciating the good times that we are experiencing at the moment, although in the last few weeks it hasn't been great. It also hasn't been the end of the world. I'll say it again, we will probably go on another winning streak soon and the Zone will be like the ****ing happy farm again, and then we will probably lose a few and everyone will be organising their own wake.

BARMY ARMY!

Well at least we agree on one thing fella :winking: :raspberry:

 

[Onion_Bag_Dave]

Well at least we agree on one thing fella :winking: :raspberry:

LOL! I'm sure 'enthusiasm' can infect everyone's minerals!

 

[Fairport]

I am sure some of you will remember that Graham Taylor had success with long ball football at Watford, going right through the divisions. He then tried it with the England team and it didn't work. The guy behind it all was called Charles Hughes who worked out that the more and sooner you get the ball into the opponents penalty area then more goals will come. It was called POMO (positions of maximum opportunity.)
If I recall, the FA used this system throughout their coaching manuals and it was controversial at the time. Despite this, some teams have had success with similar systems, mainly in the lower divisions, remember John Beck at Cambridge and Aidy Boothroyd at Watford. Most of us would rather watch a passing type of football but maybe it is worth trying other methods to get out of this awful division.

 

[Medway Blue]

I think our problem is not the football we are trying to play, its the football we end up playing (if you get my drift)

We set out to play the ball from the back into the midfield and let them do the passing, it worked for a while, hence the unbeaten run , but managers have sussed it and have started to reduce the options for the defence, by not getting the strikers to close the defenders , but dropping to cover the midfeild and by getting their own midfield to close in on ours.

This means that the defence have to either try and play football, which they cant , or to try and hit the forwards and hope that the midfield runners can pick up the knock down, which of late has not been happening either.

The CB's are not comfortable on the ball , so one of the CM's is dropping to take the responsibility on , which leaves him one player less in front of him as an option. Halls good early form also means that he his closed down a lot more and basically the opposition are letting the lesser ball players have time on the ball and closing the rest down.

The problem for me is the lack of plan B , which is probably down to the lack of mobility, we do not have one player, imho, who seems to be able to make space without the ball, Hall , and Timlin/Sawyer to an extent can do it with the ball, but there are few intelligent runs and I doubt that they would be spotted most of the time anyway as the , particular the back four, seem too busy watching the ball making sure its still at their feet to lift thier heads and pick out a runner.

Spot on there. Seems to be a recurring theme in this thread which I agree with, that being that whilst the style of football that they set out to play is a usually-effective direct style, it has turned into aimless hoofball because either:

a) the players aren't quite good enough to pull it off consistenly;
b) they panic and play 'hot potato' football thus losing possession cheaply, or;
c) they have been well and truly sussed out and have no 'Plan B'.

I'd say it's a combination of all three and that's why we need changes next month. I hope they've done some effective scouting because we need players who can both improve the operation of our chosen system (hopefully through being that bit superior technically to what we already have) AND offer something different (like ability with the ball at feet) so that we have a 'Plan B'. We certainly need some pace upfront. Perhaps having someone who can play off the shoulder of the last defender, break the offside trap, get in behind and finish would add a different dimension to our chosen style of play.

Too many times (like against Bradford) they have tried to force the direct style of play and it's been clear within 15 minutes that it won't work against that particular team. Most people could see that we could probably have them if it was played on the deck and that needs to be our 'Plan B'. They need to practice it on the training field like they have practiced the 'Plan A' so that they can switch style if need be at the click of a finger.

Even when 'Plan A' does work, if they go a few goals up, the direct style needs to be switched off. 2 goal + leads bring in complacency at this level and if playing the direct style, with complacency comes a lack of accuracy on the long passes and thus the surrendering of possession cheaply and chance after chance for the opposition to pile on pressure and throw bodies forward. This is why we very rarely look comfortable despite being in the lead. If we're a goal or two up and aren't going to get anymore, get the bloody thing on the deck and retain possession! What can the opposition do without the ball? Nothing. So why keep lumping it straight back to them? By getting it down and retaining possession (and yes that might mean the odd sideways or backwards pass), we'd frustrate them and see the game out more comfortably.

At the moment the lack of a 'Plan B', perhaps a shortage of quality and definitely the niavety when leading matches is costing us, or will at least certainly start to do so.

 

[Piece of String]

At the moment the lack of a 'Plan B', perhaps a shortage of quality and definitely the niavety when leading matches is costing us, or will at least certainly start to do so.

Hang on, wasn't one of the publicised & much discussed weaknesses of a former legendary manager, the lack of any Plan B?



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[Blue_Wes]

Spot on there. Seems to be a recurring theme in this thread which I agree with, that being that whilst the style of football that they set out to play is a usually-effective direct style, it has turned into aimless hoofball because either:

a) the players aren't quite good enough to pull it off consistenly;
b) they panic and play 'hot potato' football thus losing possession cheaply, or;
c) they have been well and truly sussed out and have no 'Plan B'.

I'd say it's a combination of all three and that's why we need changes next month. I hope they've done some effective scouting because we need players who can both improve the operation of our chosen system (hopefully through being that bit superior technically to what we already have) AND offer something different (like ability with the ball at feet) so that we have a 'Plan B'. We certainly need some pace upfront. Perhaps having someone who can play off the shoulder of the last defender, break the offside trap, get in behind and finish would add a different dimension to our chosen style of play.

Too many times (like against Bradford) they have tried to force the direct style of play and it's been clear within 15 minutes that it won't work against that particular team. Most people could see that we could probably have them if it was played on the deck and that needs to be our 'Plan B'. They need to practice it on the training field like they have practiced the 'Plan A' so that they can switch style if need be at the click of a finger.

Even when 'Plan A' does work, if they go a few goals up, the direct style needs to be switched off. 2 goal + leads bring in complacency at this level and if playing the direct style, with complacency comes a lack of accuracy on the long passes and thus the surrendering of possession cheaply and chance after chance for the opposition to pile on pressure and throw bodies forward. This is why we very rarely look comfortable despite being in the lead. If we're a goal or two up and aren't going to get anymore, get the bloody thing on the deck and retain possession! What can the opposition do without the ball? Nothing. So why keep lumping it straight back to them? By getting it down and retaining possession (and yes that might mean the odd sideways or backwards pass), we'd frustrate them and see the game out more comfortably.

At the moment the lack of a 'Plan B', perhaps a shortage of quality and definitely the niavety when leading matches is costing us, or will at least certainly start to do so.

Good points.
It's called diminishing returns. Basically the theory of doing the same thing over and over will eventually provide gradually reduced results. The perfect example is a boxer, during rounds 1-5, he is most likely to get a knockout, because his punches will be at their most powerful and accurate, but after 6-12 rounds of throwing punches and being punched, the body tires, the mind tires and struggles to focus, decision making becomes sloppy, and you no longer have the power to knock your opponent down and find it harder to out fox them.

It's the same for us, despite your conditioning, you will always tire over 90 minutes, and like you say the end of a game is where you need the most focus and control. When playing the long ball in the latter stages you are more likely to make mistakes and give the ball away, because the body and mind are tired from 80 minutes of exertion (flattering statement for some on Friday I know). The last thing we need to do is lift the other team’s spirits by gifting them possession by trying the long direct passes with tired minds and legs, we're better off with the short and simple to retain possession.

Bradford is the perfect example.