Opinions on Heath

[Lord Football]

From what I've seem (both League games) he is average, but really that's no time to really judge anyone who hasn't had the benefit of playing at least a few games with his fellow centre back. That said, I think he will be back up the A12 when his loan is up.

White on the other hand, looks handy.

 

[Angell Delight]

His form the last couple of season has been pretty attrocious, and that was highlighted when he moved out of the centre last season and we stopped conceding goals.

I genuinely believe that the reason we stopped conceding goals last season was because of Dervite's arrival not Barrett's positional change. I honestly think Barrett's game would have also been helped massively by having a defender like Dorian alongside him, much the same as Clarkey's was.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

So to sum up, we push Barrett to fill in for the gap at left back, with Herd, a natural left-back, as cover. M'voto, promising but largely untested and only on loan until January, becomes the established centre back. He will be partnered by Heath, who seems adequate at best and has three more games before his loan spell ends. That leaves Francis, White and Sankofa to fight it out the last place on the right. So that's the defense sorted out, now what other problems do we have?.............................. .....................................................................When does the loan window close?

 

[leeblue]

I genuinely believe that the reason we stopped conceding goals last season was because of Dervite's arrival not Barrett's positional change. I honestly think Barrett's game would have also been helped massively by having a defender like Dorian alongside him, much the same as Clarkey's was.

brilliant post.....

 

[TTS]

Regardless of this thread, I may make this a sticky, but M'voto MUST play. You do not loan in a player that is an under 21 international, having played for PSG and from maybe a mid table premier league side and consign him to the bench. HE HAS TO PLAY. Whether it be for Heath or Barrett (who can be moved to LB again, not fussed), he must start against Wycombe .

 

[DTS]

Letting in six in three tells me that he is not that special. Harsh to judge him on the one game I have seen him so happy to give him plenty of time. I cant knock his commitment in fairness to the bloke.

 

[united we stand]

Regardless of this thread, I may make this a sticky, but M'voto MUST play. You do not loan in a player that is an under 21 international, having played for PSG and from maybe a mid table premier league side and consign him to the bench. HE HAS TO PLAY. Whether it be for Heath or Barrett (who can be moved to LB again, not fussed), he must start against Wycombe .

sorry to be pedantic, but he is U19's not U21's. There is a BIG difference. There are many U19's internationals who have never cut it in league football.

Has anyone actually seen this guy play or are we all assuming that becasue he Is French and younf, and Dorian was French and young he must be brilliant ? If he is that great wouldn't he have got some games for Sunderland last season ?

Don't get me wrong I hope he is great, It is just unclear to me if we are building him up too much or if he really is that good . Tilson sees him every day and he hasn't started him yet, with Barret injured - does that tell us something ?

 

[palexander]

Regardless of this thread, I may make this a sticky, but M'voto MUST play. You do not loan in a player that is an under 21 international, having played for PSG and from maybe a mid table premier league side and consign him to the bench. HE HAS TO PLAY. Whether it be for Heath or Barrett (who can be moved to LB again, not fussed), he must start against Wycombe .

Spot on, I doubt he came here to sit on the bench for 6 months and I highly doubt Sunderland would want that either. Sure they'd rather have him playing in their reserves, than warming our bench.

But, all it says to me is Heath will be going back in a week or so and MVoto will partner Barrett until Jan.

I can see White staying TBH, but if he does, will either be on loan or on a free. Considering he is fairly highly rated by the ColU fans at least, I cannot see ColU releasing him for nowt.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

The bigger problem as I see it, and I am not on a witch hunt here, is Adam Barrett. He is a true legend at this club, and should always be treated as such, but IMO, he is one of Tilly's biggest weak spots. His form the last couple of season has been pretty attrocious, and that was highlighted when he moved out of the centre last season and we stopped conceding goals. He is Captain material in terms of his personality, his temprment, and his commitment to this club, but in terms of genuine ability, I think he comes up short, and until we remedy that, we will always suffer from a soft centre in our defence.

Couldn't have put it better myself. Imagine if Barrett were a loanee from Col Ewe... the vitriol that would be poured out on this board about him would be unbelievable.

We should've bitten Col Ewe's hand off when they offered us £100K for him.

Matt

 

[TTS]

sorry to be pedantic, but he is U19's not U21's. There is a BIG difference. There are many U19's internationals who have never cut it in league football.

Has anyone actually seen this guy play or are we all assuming that becasue he Is French and younf, and Dorian was French and young he must be brilliant ? If he is that great wouldn't he have got some games for Sunderland last season ?

Don't get me wrong I hope he is great, It is just unclear to me if we are building him up too much or if he really is that good . Tilson sees him every day and he hasn't started him yet, with Barret injured - does that tell us something ?

Ok, regardless on the age of the international, if he is not that much kop, you dont waste your time and expense on getting a young premiership centre back in on loan - that is fact. Premier league clubs loan to lower league clubs for them to get first team experience, not how to continue to warm the bench.

Dorvette is a youingster, we played him (he had never played for Spurs from my recollection !!)
Swayer was/is a youngster , we played him
junior from hammers was a youngster , we played him
etc etc

He should be playing, and if we are not keen on him DONT SIGN HIM !

 

[Sussex Shrimper]

The problem I see with a partnership of Barrett and Heath is that they share many of the same weaknesses. They both get themselves out of position too often and have the turning circles of cruise liners when they need to recover. I'm not sure that it's really an improvement over Barrett and Clarke.

Barrett and Prior worked because Spinner would stay at home and almost always be in the right place at the right time - which was fortunate given how often AB had to cover for Che. Barrett and Sodje worked because Efe was an awesome athlete who, when he was on form, seemed capable of playing centre-back and sweeper simultaneously. Barrett brings a lot of positives to the team, but he either needs a centre-back partner who can compensate for his weaknesses or to move back out to left-back, where I actually feel that he's a better player and has very rarely let us down. With the players currently on the books I'd be looking to do the latter and get M'Voto in.

 

[BILLERICAY BLUE]

I'd be very surprised if AB starts tomorrow. I think his knee is still causing him problems, and I doubt it would stand up to playing 3 games in 7 days. What happens Friday is another matter.....

 

[Stourport Shrimper]

About the first goal and who was to 'blame'.

This post seems to have started as a result of Walsall's first goal on Saturday with Heath getting the 'blame'. From a managers point of view, blame is not a helpful concept in my view but 'contribution' is a better concept as we can look at (and thus do something about prevention) all the factors that contributed (as opposed to this palyer was to blame we must get rid of them as the solution). Below I reproduce a contribution table that I originally posted about the game. If say Heath was not playing and it was a.n.other how likely/unlikely would it be that Walsall still scored that goal? I would say VERY LIKELY as Heath was NOT the main contributor in my view. Those of you with Blues Player can watch the replay and tell me what you think. In my view Mildy and Francis were the main contributors for this goal because of what they DID NOT DO that they should have done. Anyone in Heath's shoes in a similar circumstance
could suffer the same fate so blaming Heath is not helpful. However there are things that Mildy and Francis could change that could prevent such a goal from being scored.
I don’t think the word blame is ever helpful.

There were several contributions to the goal and two of them were the great jump by their centre forward under pressure and the quick thinking of their forward who scored the goal. Watching from behind the goal it was surreal. It was as if all the Southend players stopped as if for a whistle and only the Walsall players were moving. The ball itself just seemed to trickle slowly into the goal like a slow motion replay.

With the benefit of the Blues Player replay we can see that all four defenders and goalie contributed to this goal. As the England Manager would say this was a ‘preseason’ goal and hopefully one like this won’t happen again this season!

Firstly White had no need to jump for this ball and would have been better served to stay covering the space in front of him (as the ball was aimed at the forward who was marked by Barrett). Secondly Barrett missed the header and the forward he was marking was able to knock the ball on. Thirdly Heath could have cleared it with more urgency but he did not appear to get a decisive loud call from his keeper. Fourthly it was Francis’s man who actually scored and he should have been alert and followed with him into the box. (Watch Moussa as he tracks back his man, compared to Francis who doesn’t). Fifthly Mildy was closer to the loose ball than the attacker who scored, both starting from a standing start. So in a a decisive move he would have made it first. However having decided to stay his ground he should have been screaming “Away” to his defenders. Either he said nothing or Tilly needs to arrange lessons for him with a voice coach.
So here is my contribution apportionment:
White 5%
Barrett 20%
Heath 10%
Francis 30% (even if he had tracked back there is no guarantee he could have prevented the goal but if he had done his best then he would not have contributed)
Mildy 35%

So by my reckoning the two ColU defenders were least to ‘blame’ for thisgoal. Barrett was doing what he was supposed to be doing and did not succeed. Heath, with his back to the goal and the player he was marking behind him and therefore not a threat was reliant on a call of action from his goalkeeper. From what I saw I would like to keep Heath if the opportunity arises. So for me Barrett and Heath were not the main contributors to this goal

On the other hand both Mildy and Francis did not do what they should have done and therefore it is there actions done differently that could have prevented the goal.

 

[united we stand]

Ok, regardless on the age of the international, if he is not that much kop, you dont waste your time and expense on getting a young premiership centre back in on loan - that is fact. Premier league clubs loan to lower league clubs for them to get first team experience, not how to continue to warm the bench.

Dorvette is a youingster, we played him (he had never played for Spurs from my recollection !!)
Swayer was/is a youngster , we played him
junior from hammers was a youngster , we played him
etc etc

He should be playing, and if we are not keen on him DONT SIGN HIM !

could not have put it better myself, Tilson has a history of playing young loanees from higher division clubs. The fact that he has not done it with M'voto must be telling us something. Can't anyone else see this point?

As I said I hope he is as good as Devitte (but if he was I would have thought he would be in the French U21 squad and not the U19s).

Tilson sees aeveryone day in day out, he also sees the bigger picture. There must be a reason why he isn't playing him from the start ----yet

 

[shaneyshrimper]

The word on the street is that Heath could be with us all season, if Col ewe dont get any major injuries. A friend of mine knows him really well and he likes SUFC and the atmosphere at Roots Hall. You never know we could actually sign this one.

 

[Napster]

About the first goal and who was to 'blame'.

This post seems to have started as a result of Walsall's first goal on Saturday with Heath getting the 'blame'. From a managers point of view, blame is not a helpful concept in my view but 'contribution' is a better concept as we can look at (and thus do something about prevention) all the factors that contributed (as opposed to this palyer was to blame we must get rid of them as the solution). Below I reproduce a contribution table that I originally posted about the game. If say Heath was not playing and it was a.n.other how likely/unlikely would it be that Walsall still scored that goal? I would say VERY LIKELY as Heath was NOT the main contributor in my view. Those of you with Blues Player can watch the replay and tell me what you think. In my view Mildy and Francis were the main contributors for this goal because of what they DID NOT DO that they should have done. Anyone in Heath's shoes in a similar circumstance
could suffer the same fate so blaming Heath is not helpful. However there are things that Mildy and Francis could change that could prevent such a goal from being scored.
I don’t think the word blame is ever helpful.

There were several contributions to the goal and two of them were the great jump by their centre forward under pressure and the quick thinking of their forward who scored the goal. Watching from behind the goal it was surreal. It was as if all the Southend players stopped as if for a whistle and only the Walsall players were moving. The ball itself just seemed to trickle slowly into the goal like a slow motion replay.

With the benefit of the Blues Player replay we can see that all four defenders and goalie contributed to this goal. As the England Manager would say this was a ‘preseason’ goal and hopefully one like this won’t happen again this season!

Firstly White had no need to jump for this ball and would have been better served to stay covering the space in front of him (as the ball was aimed at the forward who was marked by Barrett). Secondly Barrett missed the header and the forward he was marking was able to knock the ball on. Thirdly Heath could have cleared it with more urgency but he did not appear to get a decisive loud call from his keeper. Fourthly it was Francis’s man who actually scored and he should have been alert and followed with him into the box. (Watch Moussa as he tracks back his man, compared to Francis who doesn’t). Fifthly Mildy was closer to the loose ball than the attacker who scored, both starting from a standing start. So in a a decisive move he would have made it first. However having decided to stay his ground he should have been screaming “Away” to his defenders. Either he said nothing or Tilly needs to arrange lessons for him with a voice coach.
So here is my contribution apportionment:
White 5%
Barrett 20%
Heath 10%
Francis 30% (even if he had tracked back there is no guarantee he could have prevented the goal but if he had done his best then he would not have contributed)
Mildy 35%

So by my reckoning the two ColU defenders were least to ‘blame’ for thisgoal. Barrett was doing what he was supposed to be doing and did not succeed. Heath, with his back to the goal and the player he was marking behind him and therefore not a threat was reliant on a call of action from his goalkeeper. From what I saw I would like to keep Heath if the opportunity arises. So for me Barrett and Heath were not the main contributors to this goal

On the other hand both Mildy and Francis did not do what they should have done and therefore it is there actions done differently that could have prevented the goal.

Fantastic, intelligent post.

 

[palexander]

Fantastic, intelligent post.

I didnt get it...

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

could not have put it better myself, Tilson has a history of playing young loanees from higher division clubs. The fact that he has not done it with M'voto must be telling us something. Can't anyone else see this point?

As I said I hope he is as good as Devitte (but if he was I would have thought he would be in the French U21 squad and not the U19s).

Tilson sees aeveryone day in day out, he also sees the bigger picture. There must be a reason why he isn't playing him from the start ----yet

Seeing that Heath only has a maximum of three games remaining in his loan spell, could it be that Tilson is giving him a good run out to assess whether he really wants to sign him, or extend his loan. Could it be as simple as that?

 

[A Century United]

Originally Posted by Stourport Shrimper
About the first goal and who was to 'blame'.

From a managers point of view, blame is not a helpful concept..... I don’t think the word blame is ever helpful.

I didnt get it...

Only yourself to blame, then, PB...... :whistling:

 

[BoyWonder2]

I have only seen the Huddersfield game so far this season, and I was impressed with Heath and think he will be a good player for us.

His strong, tall, and decent in the air. His the type of player, maybe not the player, we should have been bringing in instead of Peter Clarke. People highlight his lack of pace, but if you throw pace into the mix he wouldn't be plying his trade in the 3rd tier of English football.

Yes he has his faults, everyone at the Club has, but I'm happy with him staying either on a longer loan, or on a permenant basis.

I'm more worried about Barrett's form to be honest. All summer long I said Clarke wouldn't be a massive miss because Barrett will move infield to replace him and the biggest problem is replacing Dervite. Barrett has struggled massively so far. I thought he had a mare against Huddersfield, and its his man that flicks the ball on for Walsall's first goal. Yes, he probably still isn't 100% fit and hopefully when he is he will be back on form for us, but until he is 100% fit I'd rather see M'voto and Heath in the middle.