Now the dust has settled...

[Joolz]

I havent given up FBM, but it doesnt matter how optimistic I am, the simple fact of the matter is we are not going to stay up this season.

Actually RC, that is an opinion, not a fact (although unfortunately a fairly accurate opinion).

 

[canveyshrimper]

Optimistically, we can stay up by winning our last 3 games.

Realistically, we are probably down but we can still get out of it so there's a chance.

Pessimistically, we are down.

Your above quote is that of a pessimist.

After the Col U game you posted about the players lack of fight and desire. You retracted this after Preston. Now you're back again with the criticism again after Barnsley and I'm sure you would love to post another retraction after Plymouth.

But can't you see a pattern here?

Look, the players care more than most fans. After all, it's their wages, their win bonuses, their livelihoods. However, our lot can't handle the Roots Hall pressure very well. They don't decide which games they are going to play well in - it just happens and it has as much to do with how the opposition play as with how we perform.

But trust me - they care and they believe.

If you're a realist, then you can afford just a little optimism, can't you?

COME ON YOU BLUES!

And that in a nutshell is just about the best post I have seen on SZ in my time as a member.

In the main sums up my feelings totally. I get more than a bit p1ssed off when people come on here wittering about passion, commitment blah blah!! This player didn't try, so and so is ****e etc etc. The treatment of Billy Paynter is a case in point, I think he may have been a valuable player for us this season, but he has been harangued and abused from a lot of sides since his arrival. Obviously as I am not an expert on footballers as many Southend fans obviously are, I prefer to wait to see a player over the course of a number of games before I will comment on his ability (or lack of). Peter Clarke is another who came through shed loads of bile to prove that he can play.

I also get pretty fed up about accusations of players not trying, as fbm so cogently put it, it's their livelihood for Gods sake, and the higher level they perform at the more they are likely to be a) noticed and b) earn. I am convinced that most have tried their hearts out this season, and lack of ability should not be seen as lack of effort.

Finally, if anyone on here thought that this division would be a stroll is seriously deluded, and perhaps you could let me have a sniff at whatever you are on. I have always maintained that 21st place would be enough, and even with 3 games to go this can still be achieved. If I am realistic (which I am), I doubt now if we will survive, as we are now reliant on other results to a degree. However by winning our last 3 we can still stay up, I think it will come down to the last match at Southampton.

 

[Richard_Cadette]

Optimistically, we can stay up by winning our last 3 games.

Realistically, we are probably down but we can still get out of it so there's a chance.

Pessimistically, we are down.

Your above quote is that of a pessimist.

After the Col U game you posted about the players lack of fight and desire. You retracted this after Preston. Now you're back again with the criticism again after Barnsley and I'm sure you would love to post another retraction after Plymouth.

But can't you see a pattern here?

Look, the players care more than most fans. After all, it's their wages, their win bonuses, their livelihoods. However, our lot can't handle the Roots Hall pressure very well. They don't decide which games they are going to play well in - it just happens and it has as much to do with how the opposition play as with how we perform.

But trust me - they care and they believe.

If you're a realist, then you can afford just a little optimism, can't you?

COME ON YOU BLUES!

We are splitting hairs a little on this one, and maybe its just better to agree to disagree before we end up having a typical SZ barney, which I dont want to get involved in as I am sure you dont!

I printed a retraction about the fact that i said we didnt stand a cat in hells chance of winning at Preston, the criticism of the team after Hull and Colchester was valid and that was in no way retracted,

I also said we stand no chance of staying up, but if we do, I will be more than happy to be wrong, as I said.

As for the players caring more than the fans because it is there livelyhoods at stake, I dont believe that for one second. They care about there own personal being - paying the mortgage etc, and quite rightly they should do, just like we both do, but dont think they care about what happens to the club more than the fans - They dont. Nor should they, I wouldnt expect that of them, they are not supporters, but they should show at least that they care a damn sight more than what they did in 3 of the last 4 games.

In hindsight, I dont think any of us can say 100% with accuracy whether or not a players cares or how much, only he knows that, but it is very easy to see when fight, passion, commitment and will to win are missing, and those are the qualities which I have bemoaned a lack of the most.

I am well aware that the players dont choose when they decide to not play at there best, but there are no excuses for what happened Saturday or against Colchester and Hull.

I want us to stay up more than the next man, if only because it is easier to stay up than it will be to return, but I cannot see it happening. Is that being pessimistic? Possibly you could say it was, but I still think it is being realistic. Being pessimistic would be me saying we will lose our remaining fixtures which I havent said... Yet :)

 

[Richard_Cadette]

Actually RC, that is an opinion, not a fact (although unfortunately a fairly accurate opinion).

Yup, fair point - I will concede that one.

Although my crystal ball will still claim that it is a factual statement :)

 

[Richard_Cadette]

And that in a nutshell is just about the best post I have seen on SZ in my time as a member.

In the main sums up my feelings totally. I get more than a bit p1ssed off when people come on here wittering about passion, commitment blah blah!! This player didn't try, so and so is ****e etc etc. The treatment of Billy Paynter is a case in point, I think he may have been a valuable player for us this season, but he has been harangued and abused from a lot of sides since his arrival. Obviously as I am not an expert on footballers as many Southend fans obviously are, I prefer to wait to see a player over the course of a number of games before I will comment on his ability (or lack of). Peter Clarke is another who came through shed loads of bile to prove that he can play.

I also get pretty fed up about accusations of players not trying, as fbm so cogently put it, it's their livelihood for Gods sake, and the higher level they perform at the more they are likely to be a) noticed and b) earn. I am convinced that most have tried their hearts out this season, and lack of ability should not be seen as lack of effort.

Finally, if anyone on here thought that this division would be a stroll is seriously deluded, and perhaps you could let me have a sniff at whatever you are on. I have always maintained that 21st place would be enough, and even with 3 games to go this can still be achieved. If I am realistic (which I am), I doubt now if we will survive, as we are now reliant on other results to a degree. However by winning our last 3 we can still stay up, I think it will come down to the last match at Southampton.

Whilst some of what you say is true CS, I don't think anyone who was at Hull, the home fans included, confused lack of ability with lack of fight and will to win. It was clear to the next man that no one on that pitch playing for us had either of those qualities on the day, and at this stage of the season and in such a big game, that is inexcusable.

Yes, the criticism of some players from some of our fans is ridiculous and OTT, Billy Paynter being a prime example, I am still wondering exactly what he did wrong to incur the wrath of a lot of the home faithful, but we are in a results business, and the players and management know that, and when it comes down to it, like it or not, the paying public will always let there feelings be known about what they are paying to watch.

Whether they are right or not is a matter for discussion, just as it is whether or not what you say is accurate.

I dont think anyone thought this division would be a stroll, I certainly didnt, but my criticism about both players and management alike is not based on that.

We were capable of staying up in my opinion, that has shown in some of the football we have played this season, but for some reason we APPEAR to have suddenly lost all stomach for the fight, whether or not that is true, I dont know, but what I do know is only one team wanted the win enough Saturday to go out and get it, and it wasnt us.

Added to that, the management have wasted a lot of money on buying in players this season who are simply not up to the standard of what is required, whilst at the same time, leaving us with a squad which is so threadbare, we only had one attacking option to change things on Saturday which is outrageous at this stage of the season, especially when you consider we only have one player out injured!

That has nothing to do with moving up to the next level, that is down to bad management of our club leaving us so exposed at such a crucial time of the season, that is not matter of opinion, it is born out of fact.

For some reason, some people on here get uptight when some people criticise what is going on at the club. I dont know, most of what I have seen is justified, some of it is over the top nonsense, but on the whole, the majority of people who post on here know football and talk sense, even if they dont agree with what you say.

I admire your optimism and ability to see the positives, but I think this is one massive opportunity missed if this slips through our fingers, and no matter where we were 2 years ago, that isnt helping us now.

 

[Beefy]

I think at the end of the day that we should now work from the presumption that we're down and any points that we get in the next three games are a bonus. Let's try to enjoy football at this level whilst we still can, and that goes for us and the players. Considering what was at stake against Barnsley I thought the second-half atmosphere was fantastic on saturday. Certainly in the South Upper where people were singing right the way through. So lets enjoy Plymouth and Luton before 3,000 of us invade St.Marys for a seaside party on the final day!

 

[Sean 2]

I think at the end of the day that we should now work from the presumption that we're down and any points that we get in the next three games are a bonus. Let's try to enjoy football at this level whilst we still can, and that goes for us and the players. Considering what was at stake against Barnsley I thought the second-half atmosphere was fantastic on saturday. Certainly in the South Upper where people were singing right the way through. So lets enjoy Plymouth and Luton before 3,000 of us invade St.Marys for a seaside party on the final day!

Presume all you like mate but we are not down if you look at the table.In 32years i've never gone to a game expecting Southend to lose,then be suprised or overjoyed when they do win.I go and see them play and expect them to win and will come away disappointed if they lose.
I know that we are capable of beating anybody.I mean,we weren't showing exactly hot form when Looney Rooney and co turned up at our doorstep and were sent home with their tails between their legs.
Presume we're down? ..........bollox

 

[mattytheshrimper]

i feel really bad for paynter after reading all that. i think we were all too harsh on him including myself. bring him back!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[shrimper dan]

So by the looks of it staying up is in our own hands. if we play like we can and not like we did against barnsley we should stay up. we are capable of beating plymouth. definetly luton and southampton we could get a draw. a win if all the southampton players get the flu.

 

[CC51DAS]

So by the looks of it staying up is in our own hands. if we play like we can and not like we did against barnsley we should stay up. we are capable of beating plymouth. definetly luton and southampton we could get a draw. a win if all the southampton players get the flu.

Our results against top and bottom teams this season go to prove that we play better against the so called 'footballing ' sides and worse against the kick it in the air /push and shove merchants . So we have to be in with a chance of an upset at Southampton , we will have to out-muscle Plymouth and go for the jugular against Luton

 

[JoshC]

i believe that we can stay up but how many times have we had which we "simply must win to stay up" (leeds col u and barnsley) and gone on and played awfully, our team falls under pressure.

 

[CC51DAS]

I havent given up FBM, but it doesnt matter how optimistic I am, the simple fact of the matter is we are not going to stay up this season. I wont believe it actually isnt possible until mathematics come into play, but I dont see any point in kidding myself!

You should be saying that to the players though, not the fans, doesnt matter how pessimistic/realistic the fans are, its the players whose belief really makes a difference, but watching them on Saturday I think they believe in there heart of hearts that it is all over.

I am happy to be proved wrong, in fact, I would be over the moon to be proved wrong, but I just dont see it happening, thats all.

I dont think that is p1ssing on anyones chips, its just being a realist, and I always prefer to be pleasantly surprised than constantly dissapointed!

To be honest , I thought they were embarrassed at having cocked it up knowing how much it meant . But even if they thought that was it then - a few minutes looking at the table and fixtures will have convinced them that they can still make amends . They are sportsmen - by nature they are competitive otherwise they wouldn't have got this far . And nobody likes losing.