Northampton town trust crowd fund

[rigsby]

Is League 1 above our weight? I'd say no, but the Championship definitely is and if (or when) we do go up, we'd need to invest in players because very few of our current squad are Championship quality.....and thats when the gamble begins. It went wrong for Tilly.

The South Upper fans that would use it already use the food bar in the Family Enclosure, they all walk round, its near enough at the end of their stand.




If you asked Charlton fans the first year they would have said survival. If Bournemouth survive for 5 years their expectations will rise just as Charltons did and they too will be demanding more.

No set of fans will accept standing still, common sense and logic doesn't apply when it comes to supporting a team.

Our income placed us 11th in the L2 income table, Ron gave us a budget of 7th in L2 and PB got us promoted. I would say we punched above our weight last year. So well done the dream team (Phil and Ron). But now we are well in to the bottom half of the L1 income league and we all know what eventually happens to teams who are financially in the bottom half of their division.

I think you yourself Jam_Man said you would not except a three sided stadium even if it was for three years. Looking at our history and RH surely three stands that are much better than what we have at the moment are still acceptable. The alternative if you look at the above figures is mid-table L2 or extinction.

 

[Jam_Man]

Swansea city average attendance 1996 was 2 996 as recent as 2001 it was only 4 913

So I dont see why it is so impossible.

Swansea has a whole have a average population of 241,300 And southend as a whole has an average population of 160,000 thats quite a big difference.

Swansea are a city club with no other club nearby and as Bill explained have a bigger population .

Meanwhile we have to contend with the likes of

Arsenal
Spurs
Palace
Chelsea
Westham
QPR
Orient
to name a few.

Swanseas isnt a great example for the reasons above.

You can look at Wigan though, they were getting attendances like ours in this division, and were getting under 2000 in the early 90's.

They were then getting averages of 18-19k in the Premiership and have 11-15k in the Championship with highs of 19k at that level.

They have lower population than us and plenty of competition up there with Liverpool and Manchester either side plus Rugby to compete with.

They had money behind them, but attendance wise they are a decent yardstick to measure what we could achieve crowd wise.

 

[Shrimperforlife]

True, but the dream of clubs like SUFC is to get there. Floating around Leagues 1 & 2 isn't.

we had enough problems in the championship ... Didnt we go fifteen or something without a win ? So the prem should be a fun time

 

[Jam_Man]

Our income placed us 11th in the L2 income table, Ron gave us a budget of 7th in L2 and PB got us promoted. I would say we punched above our weight last year. So well done the dream team (Phil and Ron). But now we are well in to the bottom half of the L1 income league and we all know what eventually happens to teams who are financially in the bottom half of their division.

I think you yourself Jam_Man said you would not except a three sided stadium even if it was for three years. Looking at our history and RH surely three stands that are much better than what we have at the moment are still acceptable. The alternative if you look at the above figures is mid-table L2 or extinction.

I never said it was unacceptable for our future, I said it would suck for the 5 years, (more likely to be 5 or more than the optimistic 3.)

Roots Hall may not be capable of sustaining us as a club but my complaint wasnt about the financial future, it was about the football experience, and 5 years at RH would be better than 5 years in a 3 sided monstrosity from that perspective.

The first paragraph is spot on but Id say size wise we are a league one size club and Roots Hall wouldnt mean league two/extinction. It would mean we were in the same boat as most clubs, that we need to be supported by owners. WHat Roots Hall does mean is inability to move forwards.

 

[tottenham541]

Our income placed us 11th in the L2 income table, Ron gave us a budget of 7th in L2 and PB got us promoted. I would say we punched above our weight last year. So well done the dream team (Phil and Ron). But now we are well in to the bottom half of the L1 income league and we all know what eventually happens to teams who are financially in the bottom half of their division.

I think you yourself Jam_Man said you would not except a three sided stadium even if it was for three years. Looking at our history and RH surely three stands that are much better than what we have at the moment are still acceptable. The alternative if you look at the above figures is mid-table L2 or extinction.

correct:thumbsup:

 

[onceknownasrab]

Swansea has a whole have a average population of 241,300 And southend as a whole has an average population of 160,000 thats quite a big difference.

There are many smaller towns than ours and some of them are doing better in the football stakes. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/8705932/Britains-20-biggest-towns.html Southend also has a fast growing catchment area which more than makes up for the extra numbers Swansea is accredited with.

We should be looking to raise our status and make an awful lot of glamour merchants, that travel to London for football, switch their allegiance.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

It's not often I say this, but MrsBlue has a point.

We budget to make a loss and promotion won't clear those debts but will probably exacerbate them.

That's a fundamentally flawed business model.



We shouldn't be operating a 24 man squad. It should IMO be a 18 man squad supplemented by loanees to cover for medium-long term injuries and youths. For me O'Neill and White is a luxury. Deegan, Leonard, Timlin, Wordsworth, Atkinson, Payne and Bridge is a couple of central midfielders too many. Worrall, Hurst, McLaughlin and Weston is a winger too many etc

I think the crowds will largely keep coming if we have a young team with upside playing attacking football.

Our business model should be around developing young players to sell and maximising our cup opportunities. Where we have surplus cash it should only be invested in players where there's a decent prospect of getting a return (forwards, or players who grab goals) and not on inflating the wage bill. Are there others area where we can generate a better return on investments - scouting, commercial activities, community schemes?

It might be harder to get promotion on a smaller budget but Tilly showed it's not impossible.

 

[rigsby]

I never said it was unacceptable for our future, I said it would suck for the 5 years, (more likely to be 5 or more than the optimistic 3.)

Roots Hall may not be capable of sustaining us as a club but my compaint wasnt about the financial future, it was about the football experience, and 5 years at RH would be better than 5 years in a 3 sided monstrosity from that perspective.

So would you be prepared to suffer the 'monstrosity' as a means to complete FF or are you saying we should remain at RH.
We cant use the North bank and who wants to sit in the South lower. I actually like sitting behind a goal if the view and facilities are decent like Millwall. I don't have this option at RH but would have a choice of ends at FF, as the intend to put away fans in the corner.

 

[mattitouk]

Swansea has a whole have a average population of 241,300 And southend as a whole has an average population of 160,000 thats quite a big difference.

Where did you get these figures from? were you looking at Southend as a town and Swansea as a borough?

 

[Jam_Man]

So would you be prepared to suffer the 'monstrosity' as a means to complete FF or are you saying we should remain at RH.
We cant use the North bank and who wants to sit in the South lower. I actually like sitting behind a goal if the view and facilities are decent like Millwall. I don't have this option at RH but would have a choice of ends at FF, as the intend to put away fans in the corner.

Im saying 3 sides will be awful and it will be awful for a long time whilst we have to put up with it.

The fact that the end result will be a good thing does not change that.

This is veering off topic though.

It's not often I say this, but MrsBlue has a point.

We budget to make a loss and promotion won't clear those debts but will probably exacerbate them.

That's a fundamentally flawed business model.



We shouldn't be operating a 24 man squad. It should IMO be a 18 man squad supplemented by loanees to cover for medium-long term injuries and youths. For me O'Neill and White is a luxury. Deegan, Leonard, Timlin, Wordsworth, Atkinson, Payne and Bridge is a couple of central midfielders too many. Worrall, Hurst, McLaughlin and Weston is a winger too many etc

I think the crowds will largely keep coming if we have a young team with upside playing attacking football.

Our business model should be around developing young players to sell and maximising our cup opportunities. Where we have surplus cash it should only be invested in players where there's a decent prospect of getting a return (forwards, or players who grab goals) and not on inflating the wage bill. Are there others area where we can generate a better return on investments - scouting, commercial activities, community schemes?

It might be harder to get promotion on a smaller budget but Tilly showed it's not impossible.

Unless they get beaten every week.

Everything you say is correct and the wise way to proceed, sadly supporters wouldn't find it acceptable. The same people who complain about unpaid bills would be the same people complaining if we were playing youth players with a small squad unless we were winning, which the chances of happening would not be impossible, but are certainly lower.

We still lost money under Tilson when he got promoted.

 

[Jam_Man]

Where did you get these figures from? were you looking at Southend as a town and Swansea as a borough?

The Office for National Statistics (ONS) estimates the total population for Southend on Sea as at mid-2014 is 177,900. Southend's population is projected to grow to 185,000 by 2020. (Source: ONS - 2013 Mid-Year Estimates)

The latest estimate of the population of the City and County of Swansea stands at 241,300 (Mid Year Estimate, 2014). Swansea now has the second highest population of the 22 Welsh local authorities, representing almost 8% of the total population of Wales (3,092,000).

Whilst this addresses expectations of us and Swanseas Im not too sure how it relates to Northampton and their fans :smile:

 

[rlb999]

The club is hardly going to waste money if it doesn't need to.

Glenn Rea?
Luke O'Neill?

 

[rigsby]

Im saying 3 sides will be awful and it will be awful for a long time whilst we have to put up with it.

The fact that the end result will be a good thing does not change that.

This is veering off topic though.



Unless they get beaten every week.

Everything you say is correct and the wise way to proceed, sadly supporters wouldn't find it acceptable. The same people who complain about unpaid bills would be the same people complaining if we were playing youth players with a small squad unless we were winning, which the chances of happening would not be impossible, but are certainly lower.

We still lost money under Tilson when he got promoted.

We are talking about finances and clubs like ours in debt and facing winding up orders. Nice politicians answer though :winking:

 

[rigsby]

Glenn Rea?
Luke O'Neill?

Both have played in winning teams for us so far how is that a waste.

 

[mrsblue]

It's not often I say this, but MrsBlue has a point.

We budget to make a loss and promotion won't clear those debts but will probably exacerbate them.

That's a fundamentally flawed business model.



We shouldn't be operating a 24 man squad. It should IMO be a 18 man squad supplemented by loanees to cover for medium-long term injuries and youths. For me O'Neill and White is a luxury. Deegan, Leonard, Timlin, Wordsworth, Atkinson, Payne and Bridge is a couple of central midfielders too many. Worrall, Hurst, McLaughlin and Weston is a winger too many etc

I think the crowds will largely keep coming if we have a young team with upside playing attacking football.

Our business model should be around developing young players to sell and maximising our cup opportunities. Where we have surplus cash it should only be invested in players where there's a decent prospect of getting a return (forwards, or players who grab goals) and not on inflating the wage bill. Are there others area where we can generate a better return on investments - scouting, commercial activities, community schemes?

It might be harder to get promotion on a smaller budget but Tilly showed it's not impossible.

Remember when we were in the championship and Ron stated we need 8500 home crowd to break even,well we exceeded that figure and still lost money.

 

[Jam_Man]

Indeed, and that was with a Man Utd game and two visits to White Hart Lane too which would have earnt a fortune.

If that doesnt highlight that Roots Hall wont support Championship football I dont know what does.

 

[IloveShrimp]

Very true,

Many on here believe once FF has been built then this club will rocket onto the top table of football ,playing regular Euro games and winning at least the FA cup.

Real world

We are and always will be a small town club,we may have a season or two in the second level and that is it,unless a super rich owner enters the fray,then anything is possible.

Probably the same people who believed that by going up to a division with mainly northern teams then crowd figures would massively increase! :omg:

 

[Jam_Man]

Our attendances have increased.

Last game in October last year vs Bury : 5174
Last game in October this year vs Rochdale: 6111

Both clubs 7 miles apart and so same distance from Southend and our attendance has increased almost 20%

 

[southchurch]

Swansea has a whole have a average population of 241,300 And southend as a whole has an average population of 160,000 thats quite a big difference.

Basildon, Essex. Population: 169,822.
Southend-on-Sea, Essex. Population: 160,257.

The nearest decent size town that Swansey could get support from is Cardiff, see their problem.
They average around 20k in the prem. With a new stadium and being in the prem I believe we would easily match that.

 

[BrettieAngell]

What would you do then,go buy another forward ?

play Jason Williams.