Post-Match Thread and Ratings Northampton Town 2-1 Southend United

[fredheim_holm]

Definitely agree that we definitely lost this game because of our lack of a 20 goal a season striker and our defeat had definitely nothing to do with us conceding two goals and being unable to defend a lead.

Obviously the only sane response to conceding two goals is to demand that we sign a forward.

But the point remains, our defence and midfield are pretty good for this league, we do lack someone with the ability to put the ball in the back of the net. However good our team is, we're not going up if we rely on the midfield to score all our goals.

 

[Beefy]

Why not? We wouldn't be the first team to do that.

The formation shouldn't be seen as one up front. It's three up front in theory with midfielders running past the striker to pose the main goal threat. The problem isn't the targetman as much as it is the other nine outfield players not utilising the system correctly. I know it's not the same but Chelsea have scored 11 in their last three league matches playing the same formation that we play and the 'striker' has scored just one of those - and that was a penalty. It helps when you have players as good as Lampard, Essien and Malouda but as I said in another thread those players know their position inside out and know how to make that formation work.

Don't get me wrong, I'd play 4-4-2 every game no matter what, simply because of what we're seeing which is that English players struggle to play any other way. But having decided to play 4-5-1/4-3-3 it's vital that Soares, Hall, Grant and Simpson especially get to grip with what they are supposed to be doing because as we can all see we can't rely on Sturrock or Corr to get the goals.

 

[Pubey]

But the point remains, our defence and midfield are pretty good for this league, we do lack someone with the ability to put the ball in the back of the net. However good our team is, we're not going up if we rely on the midfield to score all our goals.

LOL.


Graham Coughlan was the top scorer for Plymouth (with 13 goals) when they won League 1 in 2003.

We need to win games, where the goals come from is irrelevant

 

[EastStandBlue]

But the point remains, our defence and midfield are pretty good for this league, we do lack someone with the ability to put the ball in the back of the net. However good our team is, we're not going up if we rely on the midfield to score all our goals.

Chelsea won the Premier League last season on the back of a goalscoring midfield... If a five man midfield pitched in with 50-60 goals in a season, and remained fairly solid defensively, they'd be amongst the contenders.

I also think we need to keep grounded as to our expectations this season. We were on a bit of a streak until Saturday, but that's not to say we were suddenly title challengers.

 

[Tommy2holes]

Chelsea won the Premier League last season on the back of a goalscoring midfield... If a five man midfield pitched in with 50-60 goals in a season, and remained fairly solid defensively, they'd be amongst the contenders.

I also think we need to keep grounded as to our expectations this season. We were on a bit of a streak until Saturday, but that's not to say we were suddenly title challengers.

I agree but as one of the bigger clubs and with a big name manager for this division we are expectant as fans and i feel rightly so. I know our wage bill has been well documented but it was ronald himself who said we would have one of the highest wage bills in the division. Surely if thats true then we should expect to be up there should we not?

Its obvious that some of the players just arent good enough for this football club but were signed as they were available and willing to come when others were not given our financial uncertainty. I think sturrock will be a very good manager for this football club , but it will probably be next season when he has time to build a team rather than panic sign that we will see results with more regularity. That said im sure sturrock still wants promotion this season and will be bringing in a striker and maybe one or two more over the course of the season. Its no coincidence that most of the players are on 1 year deals. They will be replaced at the end of the season.

I am happy enough for now , but i do think its time for a mission statement from Ronald about the new stadium and his ambitions for the next few seasons.

 

[fredheim_holm]

I still believe we'll struggle to get the goals we need to go up from a midfield of Hall, Grant, Easton, Simpson & Soares. Say Grant and Simpson get 10 each, and Easton pops up with 4, Hall and Soares with 7 each. That's 38 goals. I agree that we're getting ahead of ourselves talking about this, but that's what you do as fans. You've gotta have that optimism (although if we finish mid table it wont be a failure).

 

[bazzashrimper]

The current formation is Sturrock as a forward (not a striker) with Soares and Hall making runs off and in behind him, and Grant / Simpson supporting as much as possible. In other words we should have 5 positions looking to share the goals from open play. Obviously a League 2 Drogba would be great, but until we get one, Corr or Sturrock will do OK as both bring others into play much better than we've had for a while - and hopefully Hall / Soares will be in the goals soon.

I think 4-4-2 relys on you having a hold up player, such as a Corr - and also a goal scorer. You may have more players up top to start with, but the rest of the team find it harder to get up and support. This formation works well if you have the elusive 20 a season goalscorer, but without one we may struggle.

 

[Shrimpergonzo]

Very disappointing performance against a poor Northampton team that we could have and should have beaten.

My ratings (mainly for Pringello)

Morris 6 - didn't look very confident today

Clohessy 6 - OK, but not much better
Mohsni 5 - at fault for both goals, hope Phillips is fit soon...
Barker 7 - probably the best of the back 4
Gilbert 6 - nervy unconvincing performance against his former employers

Simpson 6 - not as dominating as previous weeks
Grant 7 - definitely the best of a bad bunch
Easton 5 - disappointing performance from our captain
Hall 6 - not bad, but not great
Soares 5 - no, still can't see what Luggy sees in him - another poor performance

Sturrock 6 - works hard but no support

Subs:

Corr 6 - added little
Paterson 6 - ditto Corr
Spencer 6 - ditto Corr

 

[Strykr]

Definitely agree that we definitely lost this game because of our lack of a 20 goal a season striker and our defeat had definitely nothing to do with us conceding two goals and being unable to defend a lead.

Obviously the only sane response to conceding two goals is to demand that we sign a forward.

we've had this debate before yorkshire, obviously a strong midfield and defence are crucial, can you honestly say that signing someone who scores 20 a season is a bad thing? and not the difference between a mid table side and a promotion contender?
We've had ups and downs, already this season but genuinely better then i expected, given how this squad was put together, we seem to be holding our own, and survival i guess is the aim, surely you must admit that its blatantly obvious that without a good striker (or two) theres no way we'll be near the top of the table.

 

[Strykr]

I agree but as one of the bigger clubs and with a big name manager for this division we are expectant as fans and i feel rightly so. I know our wage bill has been well documented but it was ronald himself who said we would have one of the highest wage bills in the division. Surely if thats true then we should expect to be up there should we not?

Its obvious that some of the players just arent good enough for this football club but were signed as they were available and willing to come when others were not given our financial uncertainty. I think sturrock will be a very good manager for this football club , but it will probably be next season when he has time to build a team rather than panic sign that we will see results with more regularity. That said im sure sturrock still wants promotion this season and will be bringing in a striker and maybe one or two more over the course of the season. Its no coincidence that most of the players are on 1 year deals. They will be replaced at the end of the season.

I am happy enough for now , but i do think its time for a mission statement from Ronald about the new stadium and his ambitions for the next few seasons.

agree with all of that, and like you say relatively happy considering all the **** thats hit the fan lately, lets face it,we could have no points on the board!
about the mission statement from Ron, agree its needed, but lets face it, nowone (including myself these days) would beleive any of it. and it would just be subjected to ridicule, I despise being back in league 2, but the shadowy way the club is run is much tougher to bear.

 

[Smiffy]

Whats strikes me reading through the latest match ratings and those before it. Is that Louis Soares either needs to pull his finger out or he needs to be replaced.

 

[Beefy]

Whats strikes me reading through the latest match ratings and those before it. Is that Louis Soares either needs to pull his finger out or he needs to be replaced.

He just seemed more than anyone to not understand his role in this formation and, unlike Hall on the other side, he doesn't seem to have the confidence to either take his man on or get an early ball into the box. He must have something about himself because he did alright at this level last season but we've not seen it so far.

 

[EastStandBlue]

He just seemed more than anyone to not understand his role in this formation and, unlike Hall on the other side, he doesn't seem to have the confidence to either take his man on or get an early ball into the box. He must have something about himself because he did alright at this level last season but we've not seen it so far.

That's precisely what I thought the other week... He seems to want to play as a more natural winger, getting around the back of his full-back instead of feeding from Sturrock's knockdowns, whereas Hall is more content with sitting a little more central and picking the ball up on the edge of the box, which is why he's seeing more of the ball.

If Corr and Sturrock were both 100%, we'd probably see Corr play the central role and Sturrock take Soares' spot.

 

[Mick]

That's precisely what I thought the other week... He seems to want to play as a more natural winger, getting around the back of his full-back instead of feeding from Sturrock's knockdowns, whereas Hall is more content with sitting a little more central and picking the ball up on the edge of the box, which is why he's seeing more of the ball.

If Corr and Sturrock were both 100%, we'd probably see Corr play the central role and Sturrock take Soares' spot.

A combination of both Corr and Sturrock ?? I don't think so.

 

[Beefy]

Yeah, I think I'm with Mick. I'm quite happy to see one or the other playing the targetman role because they both seem to do it well. I don't see how either fit in as one of the wide players. Spencer or Paterson, maybe.

 

[EastStandBlue]

I'm not saying I particularly agree with it, just what I think would happen as Sturrock appears to completely understand the system and its demands... certainly more so than Soares and Spencer.

Paterson's a strange one, as his attributes are all with the ball at his feet and, in theory, he should appeal to this system to feed off from Corr's supply but when he's played he just hasn't seemed to understand his position at all. Hall - Corr - Paterson would probably be my choice trio, but Paterson needs to get to grips with it sharpish.

 

[Beefy]

Or we need to go back to playing 4-4-2. The trouble with that though is that arguably our three best players are central midfielders.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Or we need to go back to playing 4-4-2. The trouble with that though is that arguably our three best players are central midfielders.

Either that, or allow Soares and Hall to adopt more traditional winger roles and have one of Simpson or Grant playing off Corr in a Gerrard fashion, particularly away from home when we could use the extra man in midfield when the need arises.

 

[Pubey]

yep it was a complete failure against Bradford wasn't it!

 

[mfurok]

Not going to go into ratings. It's more the collective that I'm interested in. Although special mention for Grant, who I thought was excellent.

Why set the team up to play so negatively against one of the worst sides I've ever seen Southend play in my time supporting the club? That lot were awful, and there for the taking, and man for man, Blues are better in every department. But the whole team from front to back was constricted in all sorts of ways by the way that they were set-up. There was little movement going forward; Soares and Hall didn't seem to know whether they were wingers or 2nd and 3rd strikers, so either Sturrock was isolated and helpless up front on his own or there was no width; the whole team sat deep when defended and invited a very poor side to put us under pressure at times. Fair enough if he wanted to make it difficult for them, but firstly, there's no need to do it against such shockingly poor opposition, and secondly, if we can't 'make it difficult' against that lot, how does he plan on being able to do it against the better sides that this league has to offer?

We were lucky in the first 70 minutes that we were up against such a pile of shoite. Better teams would have punished us for playing so negatively. As it was, we were largely on top the first half and the first 15 minutes of the second half, and managed to go ahead. That shows how poor Northampton were - for us to play with a system like that and be on top for most of the game. Where is the adventure? Where is the attack? If he had started out with a 4-4-2 and told them to go for it from the off, I can guarantee that we would have been 3 up at half time. Where was the panache and the excellent football that was played against Torquay last week?

For all the people who say that, unlike Tilson, Sturrock isn't afraid to mix his tactics up a bit, and Sturrock has a tactical knowledge and awareness that allows him to play different systems to suit our opposition - as things stand at the minute (although I'm willing to change my opinion if things change), you can take all of that. Give me Tilson's standard game-to-game 4-4-2 any day of the week. At least Tilson went out to score goals and win games.

Absolutely spot on.