National League Clubs write to EFL demanding 3 up, 3 down

National League clubs demand three promotion spots amid fears of delay

National League clubs want the EFL to introduce the "three-up, three-down" system between the fifth tier and League Two.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Kenny]

I looked into this a bit last year, looking at promotions from the NL into L2 and I think it was only Macclesfield that went straight back down one year, mired by off the field issues that ultimately saw them folded up. Sutton had 2-3 seasons in L2 before being relegated again, the clubs coming up from NL usually kick on once back in the football league.

There's so many clubs in the bottom half of L2 that circle the plughole most seasons without ever being sucked down because of the protection offered by only 2 clubs going down.

When 2 up 2 down was finally introduced, there were probably way less professional NL teams than there are now.

 

[* ORM *]

Tranmere have been flirting with relegation for a few seasons. Haven’t investigated but someone must be badly wrong. They wouldn’t be fans of this idea. Oh and looks like a long away day to Carlisle again unless they can turn things around. They’ve done it before. But the earlier comment about Turkeys for Christmas is spot on. Not a hope in hell.

 

[PrawNZ]

I get way some might not want to vote for it but then why did they put their name to the letter as "All 72 National League clubs have written to the EFL Board demanding the introduction of three promotion and relegation spots between the two leagues from next season 72 National League clubs have written to the EFL Board demanding the introduction of three promotion and relegation spots between the two leagues from next season"

 

[stewart]

(1) Ives is making this up as he goes along. There is no reason why the FA, EFL and NL should not pursue and reach an agreement straight away, if they wished. The promotion and relegation arrangements between L2 and the NL do not affect the number of clubs within regulatory scope - which will remain at 116.

There is no reason why a discussion about the backstop and / or revenue distribution should not take place in parallel with the passage of the Bill through Parliament. Some of the bigger clubs are quite happy to pursue a pubic debate about it via the national Press, after all.

(2) Set up arrangements, recruitment and general preparation are already being pursued by the Shadow Regulator, with th express purpose of ensuring that the Regulator proper will be able to function from day one.

He's invented the three year period to resolve the financial distribution issue. Two points :

a) the EPL and EFL could reach an agreement on money today, if there was mutual willingness to do one. It hasn't happened since Ministers first urged it (after Crouch published in 2021) because :

• the EFL wants a better deal but has no leverage to get one ; and
• the EPL has absolutely no interest in giving up its current hegemony until someone makes it do so

b) the Bill provides that a process to sort this out can be triggered by either EPL or EFL at any time, and once underway there are specific provisions in the Bill to ensure that mediation has to be completed in 28 days and also provides that the Regulator can impose deadlines for the resolution stage, if that is needed

And all the independent process can be halted IF THE LEAGUES VOLUNTARILY AGREE A DEAL themselves.

(3) Again, he has pulled this out of thin air. The 3 up and 3 down process does not to have to be coupled with the distribution of money, and as said above there is no reason why the latter can't be achieved in a small number of months anyway.

(4) This is thoroughly disingenuous. The Bill specifically creates a set of rules by which a levy on clubs will be applied to cover Regulator costs. Among other things, this specifically says that the amounts charged must take account of a club's ability to pay.

The DCMS have estimated that the total annual costs of running the Regulator will be around £13m, with the EPL covering around £10m of this, and the other 96 clubs covering the rest. By way of comparison, the latest set of figures suggests that the EPL spent over £50m last year - whic does not include the costs of the big case against Manchester City.

Ives is a CEO, and he should know all of the above. I'd like to think this latest missive from him merely stems from bad advice and incompetence.

I think you should be on the board of the NL seem to know and understand more than most of them .
Without the big egoes they have.

 

[stewart]

We'll get promoted next season, then come down the season after, after finishing 3rd from bottom and Discussing about 3 up, 3 down

Tell you what once we do get promoted ( no idea when or how long that will be ) we will never plummet to these depths again .

 

[Lancashire shrimper]

(1) Ives is making this up as he goes along. There is no reason why the FA, EFL and NL should not pursue and reach an agreement straight away, if they wished. The promotion and relegation arrangements between L2 and the NL do not affect the number of clubs within regulatory scope - which will remain at 116.

There is no reason why a discussion about the backstop and / or revenue distribution should not take place in parallel with the passage of the Bill through Parliament. Some of the bigger clubs are quite happy to pursue a pubic debate about it via the national Press, after all.

(2) Set up arrangements, recruitment and general preparation are already being pursued by the Shadow Regulator, with th express purpose of ensuring that the Regulator proper will be able to function from day one.

He's invented the three year period to resolve the financial distribution issue. Two points :

a) the EPL and EFL could reach an agreement on money today, if there was mutual willingness to do one. It hasn't happened since Ministers first urged it (after Crouch published in 2021) because :

• the EFL wants a better deal but has no leverage to get one ; and
• the EPL has absolutely no interest in giving up its current hegemony until someone makes it do so

b) the Bill provides that a process to sort this out can be triggered by either EPL or EFL at any time, and once underway there are specific provisions in the Bill to ensure that mediation has to be completed in 28 days and also provides that the Regulator can impose deadlines for the resolution stage, if that is needed

And all the independent process can be halted IF THE LEAGUES VOLUNTARILY AGREE A DEAL themselves.

(3) Again, he has pulled this out of thin air. The 3 up and 3 down process does not to have to be coupled with the distribution of money, and as said above there is no reason why the latter can't be achieved in a small number of months anyway.

(4) This is thoroughly disingenuous. The Bill specifically creates a set of rules by which a levy on clubs will be applied to cover Regulator costs. Among other things, this specifically says that the amounts charged must take account of a club's ability to pay.

The DCMS have estimated that the total annual costs of running the Regulator will be around £13m, with the EPL covering around £10m of this, and the other 96 clubs covering the rest. By way of comparison, the latest set of figures suggests that the EPL spent over £50m last year - whic does not include the costs of the big case against Manchester City.

Ives is a CEO, and he should know all of the above. I'd like to think this latest missive from him merely stems from bad advice and incompetence.

The same is being discussed on the Oldham fans forum at the moment.

One of theirs has suggested another leverage, and an unexpected ally in the form of the Premier League. This is what he posted;

"I read somewhere that this is inevitable and it will come in - it's just a matter of time.

Apparently the PL had an informal conversation with the EFL as part of the wranglings over money about dropping the PL regulation / Championship promotion to 2 spots.

EFL responded that was appalling, and that 3 up/3 down was a fundamental part of the football pyramid and it was required for the integrity of the system. The PL pointed out basically ' well you do it to protect your teams in League 2'.

I think the risk of losing a Championship promotion slot at the top end will be enough of a motivation to change the bottom, and therefore solidify their defence to the PL and retaining a third Championsip spot."

Money talks. The value of keeping a third Championship promotion spot is far more financially viable to the EFL if it means conceding a third relegation spot from L2.

 

[ShoeburySU]

There were plans a few years ago to change the EFL structure to 4x 20 team leagues in with additional clubs to be incorporated from NL.

Everyone went mad at the idea but they should resurrect it along side any 3UP plans imo.

4 x 20 with 3 up/down from each league would be far better no more Tuesday night games and better football with less injuries and more rest to allow the better players to play more often

 

[Linda Loan Shark]

I looked into this a bit last year, looking at promotions from the NL into L2 and I think it was only Macclesfield that went straight back down one year, mired by off the field issues that ultimately saw them folded up. Sutton had 2-3 seasons in L2 before being relegated again, the clubs coming up from NL usually kick on once back in the football league.

There's so many clubs in the bottom half of L2 that circle the plughole most seasons without ever being sucked down because of the protection offered by only 2 clubs going down.

When 2 up 2 down was finally introduced, there were probably way less professional NL teams than there are now.

Macclesfield stayed up first season thanks to Sol Campbell.

It looks like no nin league club has gone straight back down

 

[Blues4LifeDan]

4 x 20 with 3 up/down from each league would be far better no more Tuesday night games and better football with less injuries and more rest to allow the better players to play more often

We can't get rid of Tuesday games, we won't win any home games at all then!

 

[Bearded Shrimper]

from the Times
Of the nine clubs relegated from the EFL in the past five seasons — only one club went down in 2020-21 — just one (Grimsby Town 2020-21) has been promoted back to League Two. However, of the remaining eight, none has managed to register a top-seven finish
i assume that last bit means in their first season, rather than ever

 

[Evening Echo]

SOUTHEND United head coach Kevin Maher is backing a National League campaign pushing for an additional team to get promoted.

Read more on this story


Help with Echo links

 

[THE SEVENTIES NORTH BANK]

Wanting an extra promotion place - Southend United boss Kevin Maher (Image: Lucy Copsey)

By Chris Phillips. Chief sports reporter.

SOUTHEND United head coach Kevin Maher is backing a National League campaign pushing for an additional team to get promoted.

The league revealed earlier this week how they want the EFL to allow a third team to go up.

And Maher believes the move would make sense.

"I think three up would make it a lot better," said Maher.

"The quality this league has at the top end I think they deserve the opportunity to test themselves in League Two."

"You look at the strength of the National League and it's a tough, tough league," said Maher.

"I think the top 10 or so would be comfortable in League Two."

And Maher also feels the success of the sides who have won promotion in recent seasons also shows the strength of the division.

"The teams who have gone up recently, Stockport, Wrexham, Notts County, Chesterfield, Bromley, they're all doing OK and some are definitely doing a lot better than OK," said Maher.

"To win this league you have to be the best one out of 24.

"To stay up in League Two you have to be better than two other clubs.

"That tells you where the strength is."

 

[ColinMorrisWalksOnWater]

I get way some might not want to vote for it but then why did they put their name to the letter as "All 72 National League clubs have written to the EFL Board demanding the introduction of three promotion and relegation spots between the two leagues from next season 72 National League clubs have written to the EFL Board demanding the introduction of three promotion and relegation spots between the two leagues from next season"

My understanding is that the letter was voted on and unanimously accepted by all 72 clubs in the NL, NLS, and NLN, hence the 72 clubs that constitute the National League, not the National League division, if that clarifies?

 

[rigsby]

The article I read a few years back was 4 x 20..... 3 and 4 would be North and South.

To make up for the loss of 4 home games the lower clubs would get extra funding from the PL money. Plus instead of playing Morecambe and Carlisle etc we could have Col U, Orient, Gills and Dagenham all in Saturdays in the same season.

There was talk of another cup competition on Tuesdays. I guess a lot of fans would turn their nose up at such cup. But it does give clubs the chance of playing squad and returning from injury players in meaningful game.

 

[bluethroughandthrough]

Understand that Maher has supported this and requested that teams all the way to 8th are promoted automatically

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

The article I read a few years back was 4 x 20..... 3 and 4 would be North and South.

To make up for the loss of 4 home games the lower clubs would get extra funding from the PL money. Plus instead of playing Morecambe and Carlisle etc we could have Col U, Orient, Gills and Dagenham all in Saturdays in the same season.

There was talk of another cup competition on Tuesdays. I guess a lot of fans would turn their nose up at such cup. But it does give clubs the chance of playing squad and returning from injury players in meaningful game.

What’s the benefit of losing 4 home games?

Wouldn’t it be better to keep it 24 teams and keep the extra funding from the PL?

 

[Barling Magna]

National League: Is call for extra promotion place fair enough?

After National League clubs call for an extra promotion place to League Two, BBC Sport looks at the case for and against the idea.

www.bbc.com

 

[Piledriver]

4 x 20 with 3 up/down from each league would be far better no more Tuesday night games and better football with less injuries and more rest to allow the better players to play more often

5x20

 

[ShoeburySU]

What’s the benefit of losing 4 home games?

Wouldn’t it be better to keep it 24 teams and keep the extra funding from the PL?

Saving on 4 away games which are likely more of a cost for any club in the lower leagues

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Saving on 4 away games which are likely more of a cost for any club in the lower leagues

The lost income from 4 home games is going to dwarf the savings from 4 fewer away games though.