National League Clubs write to EFL demanding 3 up, 3 down

National League clubs demand three promotion spots amid fears of delay

National League clubs want the EFL to introduce the "three-up, three-down" system between the fifth tier and League Two.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Jmayhew32]

All 72 National League clubs have written to the EFL Board demanding the introduction of three promotion and relegation spots between the two leagues from next season.

Automatic promotion did not exist prior until 1987 with the bottom four EFL clubs instead having to survive a vote of member clubs to keep their place. A second promotion place was introduced in 2003 via the play-off system.

Although positive talks around extending that to three did take place between the National League and EFL, that has stalled. The Football League say they will deal with the matter once the soon-to-be-installed Independent Regulator has resolved the massive funding disagreement between the EFL and the Premier League.

Speaking to BBC Sport, National League general manager Mark Ives feels that means it could be up to four years before an additional promotion place gets discussed – and that is not good enough.
"The regulator will be set up in law this year, I am fairly certain of that," Ives said.

"But by the time it is set up, started, staff trained and all the elements of the Bill are in place and then, potentially, the dispute between the Premier League and EFL has been aired with a backstop, that could be three years.

"Then we have the discussion on the three-up campaign, which will delay it by another year. That could be four seasons.

"We have a pyramid that is the envy of countries worldwide because you can go from the very bottom to the top, purely on sporting merit. But there is a blockage in the jump between National League and EFL. Two-up, two-down is simply unfair.

"I would think the vast majority of fans, looking at it objectively, would see the unfairness. We want a fairer system."

Relations between the EFL and National League became strained when Ives appeared on behalf of his organisation at a reception the Premier League held in the Houses of Parliament in April.

National League clubs are concerned the cost of legal bills if the regulator were to get involved in costly disputes with clubs may filter down to their level.

The EFL feel the National League's stance undermined their demands for an increased portion of Premier League's finances.

"It is an interesting debate," added Ives. "The simple fact we had some issues around the regulator where we differed from the EFL doesn't mean we are aligned with the Premier League. That is a misnomer, it is absolutely not true."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpqleg905qgo
There are 15 former EFL clubs in the National League. Over the past decade, eight out of the 19 teams relegated from League Two have been promoted.

Ives cannot see a reason why EFL clubs would reject the three-up, three-down concept.

"I am often asked why would clubs in League One and League Two vote for it," said Ives. "I prefer to look at it another way. If you slip through that very narrow trap door and have to try and climb out of it, you want to give yourself the best chance you can to progress."

Chesterfield were National League champions last season and are currently 10th in League Two while Bromley beat Solihull Moors in the play-off final and are 16th in the standings.

The two relegated clubs, Forest Green Rovers and Sutton United are second and 10th in the fifth tier.

In a statement, the EFL said: "Recognising the strength of the pyramid, the league has been consistent in its commitment to looking both upwards and down when considering future changes.

"As such, we remain willing to consider changes to the current position on promotion and relegation in the EFL, but these discussions must be part of a broader package of reforms which benefit all levels of the game."

 

[Supershrimper]

Turkeys don't vote for Christmas and as such I can't see the EFL clubs voting to create another relegation spot

 

[SouthendSpence]

Turkeys don't vote for Christmas and as such I can't see the EFL clubs voting to create another relegation spot

Unless they have a crystal ball!

 

[Dutch Branch]

EFL clubs should think very carefully before voting against because as we know, it’s very easy to fall from grace and slip into the NL but not so easy to get out of. There will be many clubs in the bottom half of L2 right now thinking this ain’t such a bad idea.

 

[Jmayhew32]

And now from the club

National League Launches 3UP Campaign

The official website of Southend United FC

www.southendunited.co.uk

 

[Blues4LifeDan]

The harsh reality is, what do the EFL really gain from this? Those clubs with smaller budgets in League 2 would be petrified if there was another relegation spot to worry about getting sucked into.

Unfortunately, it isn't about convincing NL clubs, we're all convinced. It's trying to convince EFL sides. Those clubs aren't going to think about a 3rd spot giving them an extra chance to get back into the EFL. They'll just be doing everything they can to stop an extra chance of them falling into the NL in the first place.

I hope I'm horribly wrong!

 

[londonblue]

Turkeys don't vote for Christmas and as such I can't see the EFL clubs voting to create another relegation spot

It won't affect most EFL clubs. It's only the ones that are consistently at the bottom of League two that might not vote for it. Championship clubs, for example, won't have an issue with it. There is also precedent: they voted for automatic promotion/relegation when we were in the EFL. An extra place both ways isn't that big of an issue.

 

[Leigh_Seasider]

EFL clubs should think very carefully before voting against because as we know, it’s very easy to fall from grace and slip into the NL but not so easy to get out of. There will be many clubs in the bottom half of L2 right now thinking this ain’t such a bad idea.

On the other hand Col Ewe will be ****ting themselves

 

[SeldomSeenShrimper]

I think it's a no brainer for every club.

It's alot harder to get back up, than it is to stay up.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I think it's a no brainer for every club.

It's alot harder to get back up, than it is to stay up.

Our experience would appear to confirm that.

 

[davewebbsbrain]

Do they 'insist'?

 

[Linda Loan Shark]

Our experience would appear to confirm that.

Wrexham were worse and I hope we dont have to wait that long

 

[tallboyblue]

Better to be top of a division than bottom of the one above. Take Birmingham for example. So sometimes relegation is no so bad if there is a reasonable chance of getting back,

 

[Holy Joe]

Why 3 up and down - isn't it 4 up and down between L1 and L2?

Also you then might get compromise at 3 up/down.

 

[Blues4LifeDan]

Let's be honest, whatever the clubs of both the EFL and NL want, it will probably be irrelevant. It always comes down to money and the egos of the people in charge. The EFL chief and the NL chief have beef already, so it's more about those two reconciling their differences.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I suspect the stumbling block here is actually about the parachute payments and the EFL not wanting to pay for a third club.

Relegation is actually a good thing for many clubs. York, Torquay, Wrexham, us, Oldham etc - there are plenty of clubs who get bigger attendances and actually grow their fanbase in a lower division.

Who knows maybe it’s what Col Ewe need in order to attract a decent crowd?

 

[Blues4LifeDan]

I suspect the stumbling block here is actually about the parachute payments and the EFL not wanting to pay for a third club.

Relegation is actually a good thing for many clubs. York, Torquay, Wrexham, us, Oldham etc - there are plenty of clubs who get bigger attendances and actually grow their fanbase in a lower division.

Who knows maybe it’s what Col Ewe need in order to attract a decent crowd?

I get what you're saying but I think those crowds only start to build because the ownership changes and resets. Don't forget that Wrexham had 14 years in the NL with minimal crowds in comparison to the Hollywood ownership. The other clubs you mentioned all had new ownership too.

Relegation to non-league makes the whole club reset and therefore brings in a togetherness from all sides.

As you state though, the NL probably doesn't want the bigger sides having a greater opportunity of escaping the league but I guess they still would have the opportunity of capturing another one from the league above.

 

[annie1954]

Wrexham were worse and I hope we dont have to wait that long

It’s looking like a long stay at the moment hopefully some improvement next season fingers crossed

 

[basilrobbie]

Speaking to BBC Sport, National League general manager Mark Ives feels that means it could be up to four years before an additional promotion place gets discussed – and that is not good enough. (1))
"The regulator will be set up in law this year, I am fairly certain of that," Ives said.

"But by the time it is set up, started, staff trained and all the elements of the Bill are in place and then, potentially, the dispute between the Premier League and EFL has been aired with a backstop, that could be three years. (2)

"Then we have the discussion on the three-up campaign, which will delay it by another year. That could be four seasons. (3)

National League clubs are concerned the cost of legal bills if the regulator were to get involved in costly disputes with clubs may filter down to their level. (4)

(1) Ives is making this up as he goes along. There is no reason why the FA, EFL and NL should not pursue and reach an agreement straight away, if they wished. The promotion and relegation arrangements between L2 and the NL do not affect the number of clubs within regulatory scope - which will remain at 116.

There is no reason why a discussion about the backstop and / or revenue distribution should not take place in parallel with the passage of the Bill through Parliament. Some of the bigger clubs are quite happy to pursue a pubic debate about it via the national Press, after all.

(2) Set up arrangements, recruitment and general preparation are already being pursued by the Shadow Regulator, with th express purpose of ensuring that the Regulator proper will be able to function from day one.

He's invented the three year period to resolve the financial distribution issue. Two points :

a) the EPL and EFL could reach an agreement on money today, if there was mutual willingness to do one. It hasn't happened since Ministers first urged it (after Crouch published in 2021) because :

• the EFL wants a better deal but has no leverage to get one ; and
• the EPL has absolutely no interest in giving up its current hegemony until someone makes it do so

b) the Bill provides that a process to sort this out can be triggered by either EPL or EFL at any time, and once underway there are specific provisions in the Bill to ensure that mediation has to be completed in 28 days and also provides that the Regulator can impose deadlines for the resolution stage, if that is needed

And all the independent process can be halted IF THE LEAGUES VOLUNTARILY AGREE A DEAL themselves.

(3) Again, he has pulled this out of thin air. The 3 up and 3 down process does not to have to be coupled with the distribution of money, and as said above there is no reason why the latter can't be achieved in a small number of months anyway.

(4) This is thoroughly disingenuous. The Bill specifically creates a set of rules by which a levy on clubs will be applied to cover Regulator costs. Among other things, this specifically says that the amounts charged must take account of a club's ability to pay.

The DCMS have estimated that the total annual costs of running the Regulator will be around £13m, with the EPL covering around £10m of this, and the other 96 clubs covering the rest. By way of comparison, the latest set of figures suggests that the EPL spent over £50m last year - whic does not include the costs of the big case against Manchester City.

Ives is a CEO, and he should know all of the above. I'd like to think this latest missive from him merely stems from bad advice and incompetence.