Muslims / left-wing's using violence as their only retort in Birmingham

[osymandus]

I may be wrong as of course i nearly alway am but i think the said poster was in a direct kind of way that you post ***** of the purest form,as stated i may be wrong.

AS a kindly teacher told me once said, the content was good if only we could read it , it could be brilliant . Curse you Dyslex .... Dyslega ... Dysly... bugger why isnt this in the spell checker . No ones really wrong they just dont always have the facts to make their argument pesuasive ;)

 

[osymandus]

Strangely enough, yes I do. And it's been four years since any of them 'went off' over here, but they've been busy bees elsewhere, as Israeli civilians and US and UK soldiers would attest.

The problem with this line or argument is positions within the society .
Lets say extreme Zoroastrians (Persian religion apologies for any followers on here ), multi billionaire , international business type who holds sway with many countries , now they can and do influence other peoples lives , money and influence for their own religious ends .

Now Johnny mad no job , follower of Loki has no influence but a working understanding of chemistry a ready supply of fertalizer and a hatred of all those who imprsioned his God beneath the earth , his expression of hated comes in the only outlet and expression he has , obviously if he gets sympathyers the influence grows .
Now your all saying well this is obvious stuff here of course thats what happens , WITH any peoples any societies , arnt you ?

 

[Firestorm]

Strangely enough, yes I do. And it's been four years since any of them 'went off' over here, but they've been busy bees elsewhere, as Israeli civilians and US and UK soldiers would attest.

But as you dismiised the other fundamentalists with the earier comment "American Christian fundamentalists aren't blowing themselves up on our tube trains. Possibly why they weren't mentioned." it would insinuate that you believed the march was against actions over here.

That said, I personally feel that both marches had racist overtones, The anti Fundamentalist march was a march against one particular section of our society, thinly veiled as a protest against all fundamentalists, whislt the "Anti Facist" march was more about attacking white boys.

I would have been interested if the "Fundamentalist" march had been promoted as, say, an anti extremist march and encompassed all extremists, would there have been a mixture of races in support of the march ? would the other march have been so venomous and attacked ?

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

The problem with this line or argument is positions within the society .
Lets say extreme Zoroastrians (Persian religion apologies for any followers on here ), multi billionaire , international business type who holds sway with many countries , now they can and do influence other peoples lives , money and influence for their own religious ends .

Now Johnny mad no job , follower of Loki has no influence but a working understanding of chemistry a ready supply of fertalizer and a hatred of all those who imprsioned his God beneath the earth , his expression of hated comes in the only outlet and expression he has , obviously if he gets sympathyers the influence grows .
Now your all saying well this is obvious stuff here of course thats what happens , WITH any peoples any societies , arnt you ?

So you are essentially applying a Marxist analysis to this, which falls apart when you look at the comfortable middle class backgrounds of most of the 9/11 hijackers.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

But as you dismiised the other fundamentalists with the earier comment "American Christian fundamentalists aren't blowing themselves up on our tube trains. Possibly why they weren't mentioned." it would insinuate that you believed the march was against actions over here.

That said, I personally feel that both marches had racist overtones, The anti Fundamentalist march was a march against one particular section of our society, thinly veiled as a protest against all fundamentalists, whislt the "Anti Facist" march was more about attacking white boys.

I would have been interested if the "Fundamentalist" march had been promoted as, say, an anti extremist march and encompassed all extremists, would there have been a mixture of races in support of the march ? would the other march have been so venomous and attacked ?

That's fair comment FS. I'm happy to concede that someone's made a good point when they're willing to admit that many of these 'Anti-Facists' are anything but.

 

[Firestorm]

That's fair comment FS. I'm happy to concede that someone's made a good point when they're willing to admit that many of these 'Anti-Facists' are anything but.

To be honest, in this country most ideology based organisations like both Left and right wing political groups tend to get hijacked by people who at best can be described as thrill seekers and at worst vicious thugs.

Protests against Global famine ok, stoning macdonalds bad
Holding right wing political ideals ok going out beating up Asians not so good

etc etc

 

[osymandus]

So you are essentially applying a Marxist analysis to this, which falls apart when you look at the comfortable middle class backgrounds of most of the 9/11 hijackers.

No , i'm saying that dependent upon your resources in your society is how your expression and its forms take. Its nothing to do with marxism, captialsim etc

I wouldn't support either example given as a "right" way in normal circumstances

The 9/11 bombers (if for instance those named are they ) would also have had to be farily well educated and had people with very good organisational abilities . Class , social background etc are not defacto reasons for performing said actions , i was reading about the first Muslim punk bands (uin the states mind ;) ) from working class kids in Boston http://www.newsweek.com/id/34084 .

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

No , i'm saying that dependent upon your resources in your society is how your expression and its forms take. Its nothing to do with marxism, captialsim etc

I wouldn't support either example given as a "right" way in normal circumstances

The 9/11 bombers (if for instance those named are they ) would also have had to be farily well educated and had people with very good organisational abilities . Class , social background etc are not defacto reasons for performing said actions , i was reading about the first Muslim punk bands (uin the states mind ;) ) from working class kids in Boston http://www.newsweek.com/id/34084 .

That's a relief. I'm sure Al Qaeda will now be replaced by Imam 69.

 

[osymandus]

That's a relief. I'm sure Al Qaeda will now be replaced by Imam 69.

Well you saw the social changes punk helped induce in the 80's ;)
It's normally art, literature and music that help carry social changes .

I also now have Mecca Calling running through my head :D

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Well you saw the social changes punk helped induce in the 80's ;)
It's normally art, literature and music that help carry social changes .

I thought punk was the 70s. And the only changes I noticed were in making people dress like bums.

 

[osymandus]

I thought punk was the 70s. And the only changes I noticed were in making people dress like bums.

i think it started about 74-76 (a little later here in UK)carried on till the early 80's and helped induce the ideas of 80's as well as music and reacting against establishment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punk_subculture

I think the Nihilistic attitudes probably suited some parts of 80's Britain quite well. ;) .

 

[Thorpe Groyney]

I say let all the fundementalists and extreme left and right wingers have a punch-up as much as they want. We can then negotiate and live peacefully in co-existence with moderate Tailban muslims.

But which ones are 'moderate'? Easy to tell. They : -

Only have small beards.
Only carry small bombs.
Only met Ossy Bin Laden once.
Only prays 4 times a day instead of 5.
Wives only have to follow three paces behind him instead of four.
Reads The Guardian and votes Lib Dem.
Likes cricket and looks forward to Afghanistan playing at Edgbaston, Old Trafford, and Headingley.
Likes an occasional gin and tonic with his pork scratchings.
Enjoys Jeremy Clarkson's zany comments Top Gear.
Have never committed suicide.


Vegetable rights and peace.