Latest on Super Billy Paynter

[the_forgotten_man]

Proud member of PIG - Paynter is gone:p

The bloke without any" amazing tactical skills evident" got us up two years on the trot,masterminded two LDV finals and Man Utd's exit from the cup,all without hardly spending a bean in relative terms to other teams and we now play the game on the deck better than most Championship teams.

Don't make me laugh mate,Paynter's pi$$ed off Tilson so much that he had to go IMHO otherwise Steve would be on the phone to him.

Show some respect for Tilson,i worry what our younger supporters think when reading your post.

Oh dear. I fear you may not have understood what I was saying. Of course I respect Tilson for what he has achieved with such limited resources (what a surprise I'm saying that again) BUT, it is man-management, and motivational skills that have done it - read the Goat's book if you don't believe me. However, he is clearly not the best tactician, anyone with half a brain could see that. Lets look at some examples shall we?

1) Persisting with Peter Clarke in central midfield when he looked absolutely dire for matches on end. Finally put into his rightful position, and surprise surprise, he turns into an excellent player. Shame it took the best part of our 17 game non winnning streak to find it out.

2) Only ever making the solitary substitution after 80 minutes, even when we have played poorly for those 80 minutes.

3) A recent example came at home to Colchester (I think?) when he replaced Steven Hammell with a striker. This left us with possibly the worst formation ever seen, with three 'central' defenders - we were then carved open, unsurprisingly, to concede yet again.

There are so many other examples that don't come to mind at this moment.

My point was, that Tilson MUST be an incredibly good motivator, because if he didn't, his teams would be a shambles - fortunately, they're not.

However, I feel he has managed Billy very poorly, and I think your excuses for him are somewhat unfounded - i.e. totally. Oh, and if Billy is/was ****ed off, is it really any wonder when he had fans like you booing him after 2 or 3 matches.

And, I won't hold my tongue, 'in respect' of Tilson. I WILL say what I want, given that it is, in my opinion, totally based in facts. Anyway, we have almost certainly missed out on an excellent opportunity to stay in this division this season. If you want to give Tilson the credit for his undoubted achievements, he surely must take the blame for some of our dire performances this season, and ultimately our imminent religation.

 

[the_forgotten_man]

i tell you what i think...
the-forgotten-man best remain forgotten IMO

Odd? You call for "Billy back" in your signature, yet shoot me down for daring to criticise Tilly for not doing this?

 

[JoshC]

it was only a joke (any excuse for a pun!) i didn't evening read your post on reading yes i agree with bits. Could i have some positive reps for agreeing :D

 

[KrustyTheKray]

Good ridance i say!

Paynter was crap simple as.

I back Tilly on this one. Paynter was nothing more than a very expensive version of Greame Jones.

Can't see us recouping the money we wasted on him though!

Bye bye Billy, Billy goodbye!!!

 

[the_forgotten_man]

'Fraid it wouldn't do much good - I'm 'in the red' as well now, for my post! Anywho, looks like begging to me, you'd be getting negative if it made any difference!

 

[JoshC]

everything i do seems to end in negative rep this week :( strangly enough my joke about you got me positive rep :P

 

[the_forgotten_man]

In fariness, it was a reasonable pun, but don't make a habit of it eh? :flamer:

 

[Sean 2]

Oh dear. I fear you may not have understood what I was saying. Of course I respect Tilson for what he has achieved with such limited resources (what a surprise I'm saying that again) BUT, it is man-management, and motivational skills that have done it - read the Goat's book if you don't believe me. However, he is clearly not the best tactician, anyone with half a brain could see that. Lets look at some examples shall we?

1) Persisting with Peter Clarke in central midfield when he looked absolutely dire for matches on end. Finally put into his rightful position, and surprise surprise, he turns into an excellent player. Shame it took the best part of our 17 game non winnning streak to find it out.

2) Only ever making the solitary substitution after 80 minutes, even when we have played poorly for those 80 minutes.




3) A recent example came at home to Colchester (I think?) when he replaced Steven Hammell with a striker. This left us with possibly the worst formation ever seen, with three 'central' defenders - we were then carved open, unsurprisingly, to concede yet again.

There are so many other examples that don't come to mind at this moment.

My point was, that Tilson MUST be an incredibly good motivator, because if he didn't, his teams would be a shambles - fortunately, they're not.

However, I feel he has managed Billy very poorly, and I think your excuses for him are somewhat unfounded - i.e. totally. Oh, and if Billy is/was ****ed off, is it really any wonder when he had fans like you booing him after 2 or 3 matches.

And, I won't hold my tongue, 'in respect' of Tilson. I WILL say what I want, given that it is, in my opinion, totally based in facts. Anyway, we have almost certainly missed out on an excellent opportunity to stay in this division this season. If you want to give Tilson the credit for his undoubted achievements, he surely must take the blame for some of our dire performances this season, and ultimately our imminent religation.

I certainly never booed Paynter,can't see the good in that and don't appreciate your assumption in that i did.
Hammel was still on when Colfester scored their third,he was dithering when the ball got played upfront to Cureton (in my opinion).
As for Tilson managing Paynter very poorly,didn't he persist in him right up to the Cardiff game when he got injured?Even then when he came back from injury whose to say Tilly didn't wan't him back?Could've been while Paynter was back home during his injury he engineered a loan move to Bradford?
We don't know and that's the point i'm making,don't slag till you know the facts.Clarkey i think should have made a decent central midfielder and certainly done well against Man Utd.We had Prior fit then but Gutts was having a mare so had to try and cover that position.
The three subs against Norwich worked out ok?
The solitary Harrold substitution worked a treat also away at moneybags West Brom.

So it's not all bad eh? As for our "imminent relegation",well i hope to bring your post up in 3 wks and embarrass you on that one.

UTB

 

[the_forgotten_man]

I certainly never booed Paynter,can't see the good in that and don't appreciate your assumption in that i did.
Hammel was still on when Colfester scored their third,he was dithering when the ball got played upfront to Cureton (in my opinion).
As for Tilson managing Paynter very poorly,didn't he persist in him right up to the Cardiff game when he got injured?Even then when he came back from injury whose to say Tilly didn't wan't him back?Could've been while Paynter was back home during his injury he engineered a loan move to Bradford?
We don't know and that's the point i'm making,don't slag till you know the facts.Clarkey i think should have made a decent central midfielder and certainly done well against Man Utd.We had Prior fit then but Gutts was having a mare so had to try and cover that position.
The three subs against Norwich worked out ok?
The solitary Harrold substitution worked a treat also away at moneybags West Brom.

So it's not all bad eh? As for our "imminent relegation",well i hope to bring your post up in 3 wks and embarrass you on that one.

UTB

I would like nothing better, but I fear gaining 4 points on two teams in three matches, might be beyond us in our current form.

Sorry if my Colchester example was wrong, although I do remember a situation like that in a recent home game, can't remember which one evidently.

The point with substitutions is that you've picked out a few examples (of which I doubt there are many more) and yet we have played incredibly poorly in countless games this season, where the solitary late substitution HASN'T worked.

I'm afraid I can't remember the exact details of our squad that far back, but what I can see is that we have an in form, goal scoring centre forward out on loan whilst we have none at the club. Not only this, but said in form, goal scoring centre forward hasn't been contacted in the 2/3 months that he's been out on loan. In my opinion, no matter what the circumstances, that is poor play by the management.

 

[Sean 2]

I would like nothing better, but I fear gaining 4 points on two teams in three matches, might be beyond us in our current form.

Sorry if my Colchester example was wrong, although I do remember a situation like that in a recent home game, can't remember which one evidently.

The point with substitutions is that you've picked out a few examples (of which I doubt there are many more) and yet we have played incredibly poorly in countless games this season, where the solitary late substitution HASN'T worked.

I'm afraid I can't remember the exact details of our squad that far back, but what I can see is that we have an in form, goal scoring centre forward out on loan whilst we have none at the club. Not only this, but said in form, goal scoring centre forward hasn't been contacted in the 2/3 months that he's been out on loan. In my opinion, no matter what the circumstances, that is poor play by the management.

He would'nt be in-form for us,he hasn't got the confidence at this level.Besides,Paynter's no better than what we have and i'm guessing he's burnt his bridges somewhere in all this with us otherwise why wasn't he back with us after his injury? He'll be gone when the window opens and it's a shame that it didn't work out because we so badly need a foil for Fred.Maybe Harrold could be the man for us yet,we'll have to wait and see.Foran's got goals in him,it'll be a test for Tilly to bring out the best in him.

 

[biffo]

and we now play the game on the deck better than most Championship teams.

Do we really? I have often seen this quote used and have looked for evidence of this claim for most of the season. As we are now at the back end of the season, i think it would be reasonable to say that in fact, we dont. Nor do we play the long ball game better than most teams in the championship. Harsh truth is, we currently dont play any style of football better than ANY team left in the championship!

Bitter pill to swallow i know but the league table does not lie. But hey, we did beat man united.......:rolleyes:

 

[fbm]

So we've heard from one side via a journalist so we're justifed in making judgements then?

Christ, I hope none of you lot ever do jury service...

 

[the_forgotten_man]

So we've heard from one side via a journalist so we're justifed in making judgements then?

Christ, I hope none of you lot ever do jury service...

Well if Billy is lying about it - because that is what it would be given there are direct quotes, not just a journalist's article - then he would surely have just cut all ties with the club, and would never play again for us. Seems unlikely that he'd do that of his own accord.

 

[Kris]

So we've heard from one side via a journalist so we're justifed in making judgements then?

Christ, I hope none of you lot ever do jury service...

*Has images of Tony the Kray yelling "He's guilty!!! End of!!!*

 

[Kris]

Well if Billy is lying about it - because that is what it would be given there are direct quotes, not just a journalist's article - then he would surely have just cut all ties with the club, and would never play again for us. Seems unlikely that he'd do that of his own accord.

True, but how do we know he actually said that? We are reliably informed that quotes supposedly attributed to Freddy last week were actually that of his agent, so it could be the same situation with Paynter.

 

[Sean 2]

Do we really? I have often seen this quote used and have looked for evidence of this claim for most of the season. As we are now at the back end of the season, i think it would be reasonable to say that in fact, we dont. Nor do we play the long ball game better than most teams in the championship. Harsh truth is, we currently dont play any style of football better than ANY team left in the championship!

Bitter pill to swallow i know but the league table does not lie. But hey, we did beat man united.......:rolleyes:

I've been to countless games where we have lost and said we were the better team, x utd were nothing special.We do play good football because we have exciting players and rarely are we happy to go and sit deep and play for a draw from the off,as many teams come to us and do.
IMHO we were the better team against (at home)C Palace,West Brom,Stoke,Coventry,QPR,Leicester,Burnley,Leeds, and against(away)Sheff Wed,Coventry,Ipswich,Leeds,Luton,Birmingham.

 

[A Century United]

Well if Billy is lying about it - because that is what it would be given there are direct quotes, not just a journalist's article - then he would surely have just cut all ties with the club, and would never play again for us. Seems unlikely that he'd do that of his own accord.

I was gutted when I first read the article, but as fbm says how can we make sweeping judgements on the basis of one article? Firstly, as has been said, how do you know that it is even BP who was interviewed? And if it was BP, all he has said is that he hasn't spoken to Tilly since he went to Bradford. Does that mean he has had no contact with the club? Because it certainly doesn't say so. Ron Martin or Paul Brush could have been on the phone to him every day as far as we know. We just don't know the full story.

 

[the_forgotten_man]

I've been to countless games where we have lost and said we were the better team, x utd were nothing special.We do play good football because we have exciting players and rarely are we happy to go and sit deep and play for a draw from the off,as many teams come to us and do.
IMHO we were the better team against (at home)C Palace,West Brom,Stoke,Coventry,QPR,Leicester,Burnley,Leeds, and against(away)Sheff Wed,Coventry,Ipswich,Leeds,Luton,Birmingham.

15 matches there out of a possible 43. I would suggest there might be some other teams in the league who play better football than us...

 

[the_forgotten_man]

I was gutted when I first read the article, but as fbm says how can we make sweeping judgements on the basis of one article? Firstly, as has been said, how do you know that it is even BP who was interviewed? And if it was BP, all he has said is that he hasn't spoken to Tilly since he went to Bradford. Does that mean he has had no contact with the club? Because it certainly doesn't say so. Ron Martin or Paul Brush could have been on the phone to him every day as far as we know. We just don't know the full story.

Fair point, he may well have been in contact with other members of staff. However, if the article is genuine - and I still don't really have any reasons not to think that it is - I believe that Tilly SHOULD have contacted Billy himself, not delegate that responsibility to other people, if indeed he has done that.

 

[A Century United]

Fair point, he may well have been in contact with other members of staff. However, if the article is genuine - and I still don't really have any reasons not to think that it is - I believe that Tilly SHOULD have contacted Billy himself, not delegate that responsibility to other people, if indeed he has done that.

Yes, if I was Tilly I suspect I would have been in touch a few times to see how things were. But what if Tilly said to him "Billy, my old son, go to Bradford where, if you work your socks off, I'm sure you will do ever so well. I know you need a bit of space and want to be nearer your home so I won't be on your back while you are gone, but Paul Brush will be in regular touch, and when you feel ready for a chat, I'm your man." ?