Latest Fossets Farm developments

[rigsby]

Yes, very true, but we wouldn't have had to keep modifying the masterplan to incorporate ever-increasing amounts of third party activity such as retail, food and cinema to justify the business plan - a rich Arab/Russian would have the cash to simply build a self-sustaining stadium development.
By continually changing the plan to suit a development partner's profit requirements, we further delay the process and make it increasingly more difficult to get the approval.

Yes agreed, but if you was in Ron's position and you realised Sainsbury's were never going to honour their commitment what would you do ?

 

[Sherif H]

Yes agreed, but if you was in Ron's position and you realised Sainsbury's were never going to honour their commitment what would you do ?

That isn't the point - Sainsburys are the only reason we continue to exist as a football club. They allegedly bankrolled the club for the entire time Ron was struggling to pay the HMRC and keep us from liquidation.
Again, the point is, with a cash-rich chairman, we wouldn't need a development partner dictating the masterplan, and therefore the whole scheme would be far easier.

But yes, moot point, as Ron is going nowhere.

 

[Smiffy]

As you can see, Residential & Retail have increased massively. Add in the restaurant, cinema and domes and we are looking at around a 63% increase in GIA if my calculations are correct. The stadium is just the sideshow to what is now quite simply a massive Retail/Residential project that the town has not seen in a long, long time. For the life of me I cannot see how the Council can just pass this with no questions asked by Government. It is now a mini Lakeside, plus Bas Vegas, playfootball (with a dome) and a 20,000+ seat football stadium all on one site. Let the sheer size of all that sink in and ask yourself, how can the Council pass that?........If I were a resident on Eastern Ave or Sutton Road, I would be having kittens. How can the roads cope with a development that size, when they are already **** around there anyway with normal traffic flow?....Sorry, as nice as it all looks, this is proper dreamland stuff from Ron. The wait will go on for plenty more months/years yet IMO until it is scaled back, particularly on the retail side which obviously will have huge opposition/impact on the High Street.

[TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="width: 944"]
[TR]
[TD]Uses[/TD]
[TD]Permitted 2008 Scheme (GIA)[/TD]
[TD]Resolved To Grant 2013 Scheme (GIA)[/TD]
[TD]New 2016 Scheme (GIA)[/TD]
[TD]New 2016 Scheme Parking[/TD]
[TD]Notes For New 2016 Scheme[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stadium[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]25,186[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]25,186[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]20,606[/TD]
[TD]166[/TD]
[TD]Parking for residential[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Residential[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11,445[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11,445[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]23,681[/TD]
[TD]91[/TD]
[TD]Comprises 257 residential units with 91 parking spaces for stand alone residential building[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Hotel[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11,840[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11,840[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11,005[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Retail Ground[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9,989[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9,989[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]14,167[/TD]
[TD]1,000[/TD]
[TD]retail, leisure and cinema parking[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Retail Mezz[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6,410[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6,410[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]14,381[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Restaurant[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]279[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]279[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3,484[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Cinema (D2)[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4,506[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]D2 (other)[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3,205[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3,205[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17,374[/TD]
[TD]100[/TD]
[TD]Parking for soccer domes, changing facilities, classrooms and players hostel with 40 spaces for Jones Memorial Ground[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Match Day Parking[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]973[/TD]
[TD]454 spaces within Rochford District Council[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]68,354[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]68,354[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]109,204[/TD]
[TD]2,330[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Sherif H]

Apologies - didn't see this thread - I've put some of my thoughts on this development on to the thread on the main forum.

 

[united we stand]

As you can see, Residential & Retail have increased massively. Add in the restaurant, cinema and domes and we are looking at around a 63% increase in GIA if my calculations are correct. The stadium is just the sideshow to what is now quite simply a massive Retail/Residential project that the town has not seen in a long, long time. For the life of me I cannot see how the Council can just pass this with no questions asked by Government. It is now a mini Lakeside, plus Bas Vegas, playfootball (with a dome) and a 20,000+ seat football stadium all on one site. Let the sheer size of all that sink in and ask yourself, how can the Council pass that?........If I were a resident on Eastern Ave or Sutton Road, I would be having kittens. How can the roads cope with a development that size, when they are already **** around there anyway with normal traffic flow?....Sorry, as nice as it all looks, this is proper dreamland stuff from Ron. The wait will go on for plenty more months/years yet IMO until it is scaled back, particularly on the retail side which obviously will have huge opposition/impact on the High Street.

[TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="width: 944"]
[TR]
[TD]Uses[/TD]
[TD]Permitted 2008 Scheme (GIA)[/TD]
[TD]Resolved To Grant 2013 Scheme (GIA)[/TD]
[TD]New 2016 Scheme (GIA)[/TD]
[TD]New 2016 Scheme Parking[/TD]
[TD]Notes For New 2016 Scheme[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stadium[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]25,186[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]25,186[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]20,606[/TD]
[TD]166[/TD]
[TD]Parking for residential[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Residential[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11,445[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11,445[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]23,681[/TD]
[TD]91[/TD]
[TD]Comprises 257 residential units with 91 parking spaces for stand alone residential building[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Hotel[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11,840[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11,840[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11,005[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Retail Ground[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9,989[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]9,989[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]14,167[/TD]
[TD]1,000[/TD]
[TD]retail, leisure and cinema parking[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Retail Mezz[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6,410[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]6,410[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]14,381[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Restaurant[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]279[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]279[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3,484[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Cinema (D2)[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]4,506[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]D2 (other)[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3,205[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]3,205[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]17,374[/TD]
[TD]100[/TD]
[TD]Parking for soccer domes, changing facilities, classrooms and players hostel with 40 spaces for Jones Memorial Ground[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Match Day Parking[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]973[/TD]
[TD]454 spaces within Rochford District Council[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Total[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]68,354[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]68,354[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]109,204[/TD]
[TD]2,330[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Smiffy , I dont think the above is a fair comparrison. The last submission was 2015, you are comparing 2013 to 2016, most of the above changes we already knew about in 2015, they aren't new

you need to print off the 2015 figures and then do the compare- you will get VERY different results

 

[leeblue]

Just a quick word on 'death of the high street' comments southend high street has been in decline for a number of years....big household names such as woolworths and mother care going now BHS is going down the pan....The Internet has killed the high street be sure of that. Coupled with ridiculous rent and rates levels and no free parking.

 

[Jai]

Pretty unhelpful Echo article here

http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/144...ill_Southend_High_Street__retail_group_warns/

 

[OldBlueLady]

Sainsbury were never going to be repaid cash were they? So, to take a charge out seems perfectly sensible to me.

As for the Echo story, the Council only have themselves to blame for what has happened in the High street. Rates are too high and it's full of shops that sell tat, Asian greengrocers, coffee shops, fast food shops and mobile phone shops - and very little else. Also, of course, parking in Southend is extortionate. If they want to revive the High Street they need to look at addressing those two points and attract more individual and boutique shops to the High Street.

 

[Cockle43]

Sainsbury were never going to be repaid cash were they? So, to take a charge out seems perfectly sensible to me.

As for the Echo story, the Council only have themselves to blame for what has happened in the High street. Rates are too high and it's full of shops that sell tat, Asian greengrocers, coffee shops, fast food shops and mobile phone shops - and very little else. Also, of course, parking in Southend is extortionate. If they want to revive the High Street they need to look at addressing those two points and attract more individual and boutique shops to the High Street.

As for the Echo story, the Council only have themselves to blame for what has happened in the High street. Rates are too high and it's full of shops that sell tat, Asian greengrocers, coffee shops, fast food shops and mobile phone shops - and very little else. Also, of course, parking in Southend is extortionate. If they want to revive the High Street they need to look at addressing those two points and attract more individual and boutique shops to the High Street.[/QUOTE]

You echo what I've been saying for ages, the traditional High Street as a high volume, large floor space, retail environment is a dying business model.
Prime High Street locations are expensive both rent and rates wise, unless they are in some form of shopping centre area they are generally difficult to service logistically for deliveries and maintenance vehicles. Storage/warehousing area is at a premium versus retail area in the high rent environment as every sq foot has to pay its way, this impacts on the stock levels and ranges that can be carried in store which in turn impacts on the retail experience for the customer; this is difficult to do even at places like Lakeside. It is not unusual to see major retailers at Lakeside advising customers to buy from their online store if they haven't got the right size/colour in store. Debenhams at Lakeside even advise customers that if they haven't got an item in store then if it is ordered by 8pm they will deliver it to your home before 12noon the following day!

I live 20 minutes walk from the High Street, I paid a visit a fortnight ago. Did I go to shop? No, I went to see a film, I then walked down part of the High Street to have a meal and then went home. My previous visit must have been a good 7-8 months earlier when I went to watch the live opera on the big screen at the Forum. I shouldn't think I'm atypical of many other Southend residents.

Even worse for the High Street, and something which also effects the smaller 'convenience' retailer, the one who sells a newspaper, sweets, cigarettes, etc., as well as the bigger stores, is the fact that many thousands of jobs have disappeared from the Victoria Avenue/Town Centre area over the last 10-15 years with all the banks and insurers leaving either the town centre or the town completely. These were people in reasonably well paid jobs, for the local area, who were on the doorstep and could easily do some shopping in their lunchtime. The people working for the remaining bank in town, RBS, are now a 15-20 minute bus ride/drive away from the town centre, simply not a viable customer base in a lunch hour. The few jobs that have replaced those in the emptied bank buildings are more likely to be lower paid call centre/customer service jobs so the potential customer base from local employment has not only declined in number but also potential spending power.
Even more to compound the effect of the loss of jobs many of those buildings are now being converted into flats and being aimed at people who are likely to be commuters and therefore only likely to be around at weekends during business hours.
I think all these factors have and will do for the High Street as much, if not more than, the mostly leisure targetted Fossets Farm.

 

[Cockle43]

Sainsbury were never going to be repaid cash were they? So, to take a charge out seems perfectly sensible to me.

As for the Echo story, the Council only have themselves to blame for what has happened in the High street. Rates are too high and it's full of shops that sell tat, Asian greengrocers, coffee shops, fast food shops and mobile phone shops - and very little else. Also, of course, parking in Southend is extortionate. If they want to revive the High Street they need to look at addressing those two points and attract more individual and boutique shops to the High Street.

You echo what I've been saying for ages, the traditional High Street as a high volume, large floor space, retail environment is a dying business model.
Prime High Street locations are expensive both rent and rates wise, unless they are in some form of shopping centre area they are generally difficult to service logistically for deliveries and maintenance vehicles. Storage/warehousing area is at a premium versus retail area in the high rent environment as every sq foot has to pay its way, this impacts on the stock levels and ranges that can be carried in store which in turn impacts on the retail experience for the customer; this is difficult to do even at places like Lakeside. It is not unusual to see major retailers at Lakeside advising customers to buy from their online store if they haven't got the right size/colour in store. Debenhams at Lakeside even advise customers that if they haven't got an item in store then if it is ordered by 8pm they will deliver it to your home before 12noon the following day!

I live 20 minutes walk from the High Street, I paid a visit a fortnight ago. Did I go to shop? No, I went to see a film, I then walked down part of the High Street to have a meal and then went home. My previous visit must have been a good 7-8 months earlier when I went to watch the live opera on the big screen at the Forum. I shouldn't think I'm atypical of many other Southend residents.

Even worse for the High Street, and something which also effects the smaller 'convenience' retailer, the one who sells a newspaper, sweets, cigarettes, etc., as well as the bigger stores, is the fact that many thousands of jobs have disappeared from the Victoria Avenue/Town Centre area over the last 10-15 years with all the banks and insurers leaving either the town centre or the town completely. These were people in reasonably well paid jobs, for the local area, who were on the doorstep and could easily do some shopping in their lunchtime. The people working for the remaining bank in town, RBS, are now a 15-20 minute bus ride/drive away from the town centre, simply not a viable customer base in a lunch hour. The few jobs that have replaced those in the emptied bank buildings are more likely to be lower paid call centre/customer service jobs so the potential customer base from local employment has not only declined in number but also potential spending power.
Even more to compound the effect of the loss of jobs many of those buildings are now being converted into flats and being aimed at people who are likely to be commuters and therefore only likely to be around at weekends during business hours.
I think all these factors have and will do for the High Street as much, if not more than, the mostly leisure targetted Fossets Farm.

 

[teabee1]

I visited the High Street a couple of weeks ago and found it a thoroughly depressing experience. The wasteland outside the Odeon is a complete disgrace, the High Street looks so shabby it's an embarassment, and the council have the audacity to worry about the effect new retail units at Fossets Farm will have! They must be completely blind to the effect that their own actions have had.

It is such a shame as there is the space at the top end of the High Street and the start of the London Road - for example, to make it into an area where there can be proper outside dining options ror example (the sort of cafe culture they were talking about some time ago) and not a couple of tables and chairs blocking the pavement getting in everyones way.

Although unfortunately the joke that is Victoria Gateway basically shows us what the council have to offer in this respect - absolutely nothing useful.

 

[rigsby]

The High street are trying to claim that FF will kill them, yet they have been trying hard to commit suicide for years anyway.

I am one of the many Southend residents who hardly ever use our high street. Not for shopping or eating etc. If I do walk down there I end thinking of how the place was 20/30 years ago and I feel ashamed to see how it is now.

 

[Jam_Man]

We were told it would affect Victoria Plaza a while back, yet Fossetts isnt built and the Plaza is half empty anyway. So who is killing that then?

Basildon have Festival Leisure and Eastgate and do ok, and even though I live in Southend I still go to the cinema in Basildon as its nicer to get to than having to go into Southend. If Fossetts ever gets built Ill go to the cinema there instead, but come Christmas time when I have to make a rare shopping trip to actual physical shops Id still go to the High Street rather than the limited range of shops that will be at Fossetts.

Whilst there may be an impact a retail/leisure park to me have completely different roles and appeal.

 

[Sherif H]

As accurate as your collective views are on the demise of the High Street as a concept in general, this, unfortunately, doesn't detract from the fact that Southend Borough Council (along with most other Local Authorities) look very unfavourably upon out-of-town copycat planning mixes which can outwardly be seen to be drive trade away from the High Street.
Ergo, the massive net increase in retail and leisure floorspace, as well as the increase in parking can only be a bad thing. In addition (not that it matters anymore), the larger the non-football elements become, the smaller and less centrifugal to the proposals the new stadium becomes.

 

[Smiffy]

As accurate as your collective views are on the demise of the High Street as a concept in general, this, unfortunately, doesn't detract from the fact that Southend Borough Council (along with most other Local Authorities) look very unfavourably upon out-of-town copycat planning mixes which can outwardly be seen to be drive trade away from the High Street.
Ergo, the massive net increase in retail and leisure floorspace, as well as the increase in parking can only be a bad thing. In addition (not that it matters anymore), the larger the non-football elements become, the smaller and less centrifugal to the proposals the new stadium becomes.

Exactly what I was saying.

We have gone from a stadium, with small retail annex and a few flats. To a huge retail park & housing estate with a stadium annex.

It has completely flipped over the last decade since the original plans were submitted.

 

[Fairport]

Looking at the comments on the Echo website it seems that 90% of people say that the FF development will have no effect on the High Street as it is going down hill anyway. Also, the make up of high streets is changing rapidly. I must admit that I was expecting all the nimbys to go on the comments section and agree that FF will be a problem. Encouraging that most people appear not to be anti the new development.

 

[Sherif H]

Looking at the comments on the Echo website it seems that 90% of people say that the FF development will have no effect on the High Street as it is going down hill anyway. Also, the make up of high streets is changing rapidly. I must admit that I was expecting all the nimbys to go on the comments section and agree that FF will be a problem. Encouraging that most people appear not to be anti the new development.

Doesn't really matter what people think I'm afraid - all about what the planning policy documents and local authority strategy says, and my guess is that anything which has a detrimental effect on the ability of the High Street to thrive as the central retail source for the area is going to come up against resistance.

 

[Supa Shrimpa]

sooo....who is paying to build the stadium ? If there isn't a definitive answer, then people will keep doubting it will go ahead. Or is it a more attractive proposition to an investor once (!!!) the planning permission is agreed ?

 

[Jam_Man]

THe increase to the retail park is whats paying for it.

 

[Shrimper]

By the time this is built the dome will be rusted