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Joey Barton

I think the crux is nowadays, players like Barton forget where they come from and honestly believe they are above the law.
Can you imagine me doing a Roy Keane tackle when on Haagland on a fellow supporter in the street , I would be thrown inside and rightly so, not let off with a ban.
Players like Bramble rightly went inside for the rape, but honestly how many people feel he the player thought he did nothing wrong, such is their mentality
Barton didnot make one bet ,but over 1200, he states early retirement will come in force, how many can retire at 34 years old and live a life of comfort, plus there are all ways the fools that will buy his book and go and listen to him on after dinner circuits
Live in our world Joey and see whats its like, not in your "Poor me" world

UTS
 
On at least one occasion he was certainly playing. He bet on himself as first goalscorer.

He also bet on nine separate permutations of City losing to PSV on one occasion.

He wasn't playing when he bet on his own team to lose, correct? So no way of him influencing the game, for him to profit from. And betting on yourself to be first goalscorer isn't exactly influencing a game either. It's not as if you're going to try & not score. Is the crime that bad? Does the punishment fairly reflect the crime? I don't think so.

Barton can claim that there was no way he was influencing the game, but like it or not, being on the training ground and around the playing squad he'll be privy to information/insight as to what's likely to happen during a game.

Fans of nearly every team in the world are able to go and watch their team train on a daily basis, if they wish. Does that make them privy to what's going on aswell?

And come on now, let's be honest, how can anyone know "what's likely to happen during a game", unless they can predict the future? I could pop down to Boots & Laces & try and glean a few inside tips, but it doesn't mean they'll come to fruition on Sunday.

Yes, football has a shockingly counterintuitive relationship with gambling, but the rule for footballers is phenomenally simple. Professional footballer? You don't bet on the country's league football. Barton did. 1,206 times.

I agree with you, what he's done is daft, especially if the rules are there in black and white. However, is the punishment for this arbitrary, or predetermined? Because quite simply, does the punishment fit the crime? 18-months & the effective end of someone's playing career!?

- Cantona tried decapitating someone & recieved 9-month ban
- Luis Suarez biting recieved a 4-month ban
- Kolo Toure taking PEDs earned a 6-month ban
- Adrian Mutu, banned for 7 months for sniffing Coke
- Bosnich banned for 9 months for the same reason
- Ferdidnand's missed drugs test saw him banned for 8 months
- The longest Football ban I can find, was Maradona's 15-month ban for drug taking whilst playing in the World Cup.

Again, what Barton did was stupid, considering the rules are crystal clear. But does his actions deserve the most consequential & heaviest ban ever seen* in English Football?

*I can't recall, or find anything bigger than the 18-month ban?
 
not at the Crown casino in Melbourne , but i doubt very much you have been there , you find it hard to go a couple of miles to support the team you say you support ,reading the threads.:hilarious:


Hmm...super rich mates and now you say a 10k tip was refused.......billyballcrap:hilarious:
 
A player in the Ryman Premier got a £20,000+ fine - last season, I think.

My thought is that a total ban leaves no grey areas. Going back to the Ryman player, it seems a bit harsh if he was betting on, say, La Ligue. He can't influence Sporting Gijon v. Oviedo, for example. But the rules are there and players (I assume) know them. You can't bet by accident. If you drive at 31 in a 30 limit, it may be a moment's carelessness. That can't apply to a bet, you can't say "Oops! Sorry, I didn't realise".
 
A player in the Ryman Premier got a £20,000+ fine - last season, I think.

My thought is that a total ban leaves no grey areas. Going back to the Ryman player, it seems a bit harsh if he was betting on, say, La Ligue. He can't influence Sporting Gijon v. Oviedo, for example. But the rules are there and players (I assume) know them. You can't bet by accident. If you drive at 31 in a 30 limit, it may be a moment's carelessness. That can't apply to a bet, you can't say "Oops! Sorry, I didn't realise".

Agree with that.

But the seemingly grey area is the fact that nobody knows the punishment for betting? I'm assuming it's arbitrary, as I can't find any set guidelines or predetermined banning lengths
 
Agree with that.

But the seemingly grey area is the fact that nobody knows the punishment for betting? I'm assuming it's arbitrary, as I can't find any set guidelines or predetermined banning lengths

I've not seen any either - and if there aren't any, that needs to be addressed. Particularly as it just leaves us to compare this offence to others, some from two decades ago, in order to come up with a suitable punishment.

By the way, this is one of the heftiest punishments I've been able to find. Cost his entire country a whole World Cup campaign!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Rojas
 
I've not seen any either - and if there aren't any, that needs to be addressed. Particularly as it just leaves us to compare this offence to others, some from two decades ago, in order to come up with a suitable punishment.

Precisely. Without some form of due process, and punishment guidelines, the final rulings will be too widespread & wishy-washy.

I'd wager* that Barton's reputation has actually gone against him in this situation, whereas a, for lack of better words, lesser known footballer, wouldn't have been hit this badly.

*see what I did there?

By the way, this is one of the heftiest punishments I've been able to find. Cost his entire country a whole World Cup campaign!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Rojas

Now that is harsh.
 
Agree with that.

But the seemingly grey area is the fact that nobody knows the punishment for betting? I'm assuming it's arbitrary, as I can't find any set guidelines or predetermined banning lengths

My thought is that there are too many permutations* (Me too!)

e.g. Speeding at 35 in a 30 limit could be £10 fine per mph over the limit. That's simple to calculate

Betting £3.50 on East Thurrock to draw with Waterlooville - how can you set a fine/ban for that?

There are possibly hundreds of thousands of different bet combinations (if not more) on any one Saturday.
I think the bigger outrages are a) TV advertising during a match and b) ridiculous "teaser" odds offered to get people to open on-line accounts. I saw in the 'paper today 20/1 offered that there'd be a corner in a match! There were restrictions, obviously, but for some people this could be where their addiction starts. I will never have an on-line account. If I put a bet on, I walk into town to do so.
 
For my money the JB ban is ridiculous ,he hasn't done any different what millions do each week,have a bet.

Now if he bet on a game he played in,then he is utterly dumb,but random bets on other games,I can't see the problem.
 
For my money the JB ban is ridiculous ,he hasn't done any different what millions do each week,have a bet.

Now if he bet on a game he played in,then he is utterly dumb,but random bets on other games,I can't see the problem.

The problem is, it's against league rules. I don't agree with some laws, but I abide by them.
 
My thought is that there are too many permutations* (Me too!)

e.g. Speeding at 35 in a 30 limit could be £10 fine per mph over the limit. That's simple to calculate

Betting £3.50 on East Thurrock to draw with Waterlooville - how can you set a fine/ban for that?

It seems the only way to adequately enforce a no gambling rule, would be to put a blanket ban on it, adopt a zero-tolerance policy, and have a strict disciplinary procedure in place, which was well known to all, the same as they do with PED's.

However, choosing this specific case, with this specific individual, to exercise their powers in handing out whatever punishment they arbitrarily fancy, to prove a point, is simply wrong, IMO.

How is it one professional footballer can take PED's, and be banned for 6 months, whilst another footballer places bets & is banned for THREE times that of the drug cheat? The only message I can take from that is, cheating is wrong, but its not as bad as someone playing with money?
 
And betting on yourself to be first goalscorer isn't exactly influencing a game either. It's not as if you're going to try & not score. Is the crime that bad? Does the punishment fairly reflect the crime? I don't think so.

Eh? It opens himself up to all kinds of possibilities. What happens if they'd won a penalty in that game? Or a free kick in a decent location?

Fans of nearly every team in the world are able to go and watch their team train on a daily basis, if they wish. Does that make them privy to what's going on aswell?

And come on now, let's be honest, how can anyone know "what's likely to happen during a game", unless they can predict the future? I could pop down to Boots & Laces & try and glean a few inside tips, but it doesn't mean they'll come to fruition on Sunday.

Fans of the game aren't invited to tactical briefings, know explicit team information, team instructions etc. Barton will have been privy to considerable amounts of information and there's every chance he used this to his advantage. Whether or not it came off is irrelevant. He still brought the integrity of the game into disrepute.

I agree with you, what he's done is daft, especially if the rules are there in black and white. However, is the punishment for this arbitrary, or predetermined? Because quite simply, does the punishment fit the crime? 18-months & the effective end of someone's playing career!?

I've no idea how the FA decide on these punishments, but I'd imagine there's no pre-determined guidelines because of how the seriousness of the infringement is a sliding scale. Most of Barton's bets were largely harmless, but he still broke the rules. Some of Barton's bets involved his own team, which is obviously worse. A few of Barton's bets involved games where he was playing, which is considerably worse. It went on for ten years. There are a large number of moving cogs there.

- Cantona tried decapitating someone & recieved 9-month ban
- Luis Suarez biting recieved a 4-month ban
- Kolo Toure taking PEDs earned a 6-month ban
- Adrian Mutu, banned for 7 months for sniffing Coke
- Bosnich banned for 9 months for the same reason
- Ferdidnand's missed drugs test saw him banned for 8 months
- The longest Football ban I can find, was Maradona's 15-month ban for drug taking whilst playing in the World Cup.

Again, what Barton did was stupid, considering the rules are crystal clear. But does his actions deserve the most consequential & heaviest ban ever seen* in English Football?

*I can't recall, or find anything bigger than the 18-month ban?

That's just comparing apples with oranges though, and the FA are bound by convention on certain circumstances. What has to be considered is that Barton will have known the rules - he admits himself he did - and continued to bet on games involving his team for the best part of 10 years.

I've got every sympathy for him as a problem gambler and the FA comes out just as bad, if not worse, than him in this case given their cosy links with gaming firms, but I just can't see how he can have any complaints about the punishment he's been given.
 
It seems the only way to adequately enforce a no gambling rule, would be to put a blanket ban on it, adopt a zero-tolerance policy, and have a strict disciplinary procedure in place, which was well known to all, the same as they do with PED's.

This is what they have done.

This was well known. The players were educated on it.

However, choosing this specific case, with this specific individual, to exercise their powers in handing out whatever punishment they arbitrarily fancy, to prove a point, is simply wrong, IMO.

What makes you think the punishment is arbitrary?

A player has knowingly flouted the rules 1,260 times. The punishment is less than a punishment the FA handed out 2 years ago to a non-league manager. The punishment is less than the punishment handed out to those caught in the 1960s betting scandal (they received life time bans).
 
He has been banned half a day for each offence.

Imagine if he had got a weeks ban for betting 10 times, I don't think people would be saying that was harsh.
 
Sounds like he's got a gambling addiction if you ask me. I suggest he gets control of that if he doesn't want to end up on the dole queue....after earning more in his short years in the game than most people would in 100 lifetimes.
 
Sounds like he's got a gambling addiction if you ask me. I suggest he gets control of that if he doesn't want to end up on the dole queue....after earning more in his short years in the game than most people would in 100 lifetimes.

Not that high a number of bets to be honest. Of course, he may have been also betting cash in shops, punting with other online firms etc., but the volume of bets, and the time period, don't point to someone with a gambling addiction.
 
Not that high a number of bets to be honest. Of course, he may have been also betting cash in shops, punting with other online firms etc., but the volume of bets, and the time period, don't point to someone with a gambling addiction.

I guess it works out about 2 per week over the 10yr period.
 
Eh? It opens himself up to all kinds of possibilities. What happens if they'd won a penalty in that game? Or a free kick in a decent location?

The problem is, You cannot prove his integrity was/would be compromised, if he found himself in those scenarios. To do so, is Nothing but conjecture

Fans of the game aren't invited to tactical briefings, know explicit team information, team instructions etc. Barton will have been privy to considerable amounts of information and there's every chance he used this to his advantage. Whether or not it came off is irrelevant. He still brought the integrity of the game into disrepute.

What information would he be privy to, that nobody else would, that could actually Give him the advantage when betting?

The formation, the tactics, The starting XI, the free-kick/penalty takers are all fairly predictable, aswell as interchangeable, come match day. Does it make that much difference from someone reading a statistical form guide? I don't doubt he'd have far greater knowledge of the inner workings of a club, but what could be realistically use to his advantage, when betting?

And still I'll say that biting, spitting and assault are all far worse offences, that bring the game into disrepute, however they haven't carried such heavy punishments.


I've no idea how the FA decide on these punishments, but I'd imagine there's no pre-determined guidelines because of how the seriousness of the infringement is a sliding scale. Most of Barton's bets were largely harmless, but he still broke the rules. Some of Barton's bets involved his own team, which is obviously worse. A few of Barton's bets involved games where he was playing, which is considerably worse. It went on for ten years. There are a large number of moving cogs there.

Agree with all of that entirely, and despite the difficulty of implementing a correct & proper disciplinary procedure, it still needs looking into.

That's just comparing apples with oranges though, and the FA are bound by convention on certain circumstances. What has to be considered is that Barton will have known the rules - he admits himself he did - and continued to bet on games involving his team for the best part of 10 years.

I agree, but in fairness there's not much else to compare it to?

I've got every sympathy for him as a problem gambler and the FA comes out just as bad, if not worse, than him in this case given their cosy links with gaming firms, but I just can't see how he can have any complaints about the punishment he's been given.

It's the severity of the punishment though. Does it justifiably reflect his actions? Personally I don't think so. I'm not really sticking up for his actions (although I couldn't care less if the bookies were out a few quid) I'm more critical of the length of the ban, when other offences, which a vast majority of people would consider worse, have yielded a far lesser punishment.

This was well known. The players were educated on it.

If that was the case, why did Barton regularly speak about his betting on Twitter? And also, why didn't anyone close to him reign him in?


What makes you think the punishment is arbitrary?

A player has knowingly flouted the rules 1,260 times. The punishment is less than a punishment the FA handed out 2 years ago to a non-league manager. The punishment is less than the punishment handed out to those caught in the 1960s betting scandal (they received life time bans).

Because there doesn't seem to be any predetermined guideline for punishing these kind of offences. How else can it be described, other than arbitrary?

The ban for the Frome manager, was totally justified IMO, as his actions were inexcusable. Barton's weren't great, but no where near as bad as that. I simply don't believe Barton is deserving of an 18-month ban, which is effectively retirement.
 
What information would he be privy to, that nobody else would, that could actually Give him the advantage when betting?

The formation, the tactics, The starting XI, the free-kick/penalty takers are all fairly predictable, aswell as interchangeable, come match day. Does it make that much difference from someone reading a statistical form guide? I don't doubt he'd have far greater knowledge of the inner workings of a club, but what could be realistically use to his advantage, when betting?

Goalkeeper or vital player carrying a knock but is going to play on ?
 

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