Islamic Justice - Harsh But Fair

[Berrichonne shrimper]

:smile:...

Good to see you have cheered up.
If you do not respect the laws of a country then thats fine but if you break them then its off with your head.
I do not agree with chopping off of heads or death by any other means apart from natural nut laws are laws.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Good to see you have cheered up.
If you do not respect the laws of a country then thats fine but if you break them then its off with your head.
I do not agree with chopping off of heads or death by any other means apart from natural nut laws are laws.

But in Saudi the laws are dictated by an absolute monarchy and if you are unfortunate enough to be born a Saudi and you don't like the uber strict laws that you've had no say in, you can shut up and pretend not to mind or you can speak out and lose your head. There are different levels of validity to laws and in Saudi they are completely invalid.

 

[Cricko]

If people are so scared of the laws in Saudi because they might lose there head/hand....how come 40 odd have been beheaded this year....I see a flaw in this.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

If people are so scared of the laws in Saudi because they might lose there head/hand....how come 40 odd have been beheaded this year....I see a flaw in this.

That's exactly it, it doesn't stop crime because no matter what the punishment people only commit crime because they think they won't get caught - as born out in the US figures. But largely it seems to stop political protest as if you are on the streets in numbers, you will get caught. Their 'Arab Spring' lasted 15 minutes, literally.

 

[pickledseal]

And yay! It's time for the death penalty thread to come round again.

Exactly why I didn't bother starting another thread about Troy Davis! ;)

Stated my view on that enough times already...

Now on to Islamic Jurisprudence and reform of Shari'a! I did course work on this at uni... I had a guy called Dr Tim Winter as my supervisor (Best example of why you can't always 'spot' a Muslim - http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Winter) who made me work bloody hard for my World Religions paper! It really interested me at that time, and still does despite my ability to remember it all. Very different legal system to ours... completely case based. I'm no legal brain but I believe here we have a system whereby each crime has a corresponding sentence depending on circumstances ie murder = 14 years - in Shari'a it's purely cased based. They would look at other cases to find one as similar as possible to issue sentencing. I know in UK cases may be cited but they are not used directly (and certainly not solely) by judge are they?

The implementation of Shari'a is an interesting one too... as I've said before, it should be secondary to the law of the land. If anything it is a personal thing and should not be imposed on people especially non-Muslims. Secondarily it can be broken if situation demands it, ie for life in non-Muslim communities or where it is dangerous - it's certainly not one of the 5 Pillars. Also lots of things that people think are part of Shari'a are not... and that may be the fault of ignorance or of misleading Muslims. Women's dress is one such area.

Given Islam's high regard for human life, like for many Christians, the death penalty would be an area of massive concern for many Muslims and such laws would be largely politically motivated (like 'Shari'a' in countries such as Iran and under Al-Q'uida in Afghanistan... repression of the people rather than following truth of Islamic faith.

Ahhh I've probably bored you all a long time ago! ;)

 

[maninasuitcase]

That's a somewhat one-sided view of the Troy Davis case. Here's a view from the other side:

Mumia's the Word

This thread seems to have opened up a lively debate - exactly the kind of thing that's killing SZ.

An interesting article. Coulter claims that no innocent inmates on death row have been executed in the US in the last 50 years. However she fails to mention that 15 men kept on death row have been exonerated on the basis of DNA evidence since 1992.

The Death Penalty Information center claims that 'At least 39 executions are claimed to have been carried out in the U.S. in the face of evidence of innocence or serious doubt about guilt.'

Wrongful executions

However I don't know enough about Coulter or this organisation to comment further, other then they appear to be at the opposite ends of the political spectrum.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

However I don't know enough about Coulter or this organisation to comment further, other then they appear to be at the opposite ends of the political spectrum.

Ann Coulter is Legal Affairs Correspondent for HUMAN EVENTS and author of High Crimes and Misdemeanors, Slander, Treason, How to Talk to a Liberal (If You Must), Godless, If Democrats Had Any Brains, They'd Be Republicans, Guilty: Liberal "Victims" and their Assault on America, and the forthcoming Demonic: How The Liberal Mob Is Endangering America.

Coulter has described herself as a polemicist who likes to "stir up the pot" and does not "pretend to be impartial or balanced".

Coulter contracted with USA Today to cover the 2004 Democratic National Convention. She wrote one article that began, "Here at the Spawn of Satan convention in Boston..." The newspaper declined to print the article.

Her Wiki page is largely a list of newspapers she has been sacked from.

She isn't sounding like the most reliable source of information.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Ann Coulter is Legal Affairs Correspondent for HUMAN EVENTS and author of High Crimes and Misdemeanors, Slander, Treason, How to Talk to a Liberal (If You Must), Godless, If Democrats Had Any Brains, They'd Be Republicans, Guilty: Liberal "Victims" and their Assault on America, and the forthcoming Demonic: How The Liberal Mob Is Endangering America.

Coulter has described herself as a polemicist who likes to "stir up the pot" and does not "pretend to be impartial or balanced".

Coulter contracted with USA Today to cover the 2004 Democratic National Convention. She wrote one article that began, "Here at the Spawn of Satan convention in Boston..." The newspaper declined to print the article.

Her Wiki page is largely a list of newspapers she has been sacked from.

She isn't sounding like the most reliable source of information.

Yeah she's unashamedly conservative - it's obviously far better to trust the fair and balanced Guardian. When I quoted her article, I clearly stated that it was an opinion from the different side of the political spectrum to your pinko pantywaist group hug nonsense.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Yeah she's unashamedly conservative - it's obviously far better to trust the fair and balanced Guardian. When I quoted her article, I clearly stated that it was an opinion from the different side of the political spectrum to your pinko pantywaist group hug nonsense.

I love group hugs and if there is a tree near thats gonna get some too.

 

[MK Shrimper]

I love group hugs and if there is a tree near thats gonna get some too.

Remember to remove your pink pantywaist or it might get a bit clammy downstairs. :stunned:

 

[BrettieAngell]

I watched a programme on Nat Geo (or Discovery maybe) called Texas Death Row. Its fair to say that cases that are lacking evidence still result in the Death penalty, its rare for a person to be pardoned once they are in Death Row, particularly in Texas capital punishment capital of the States!. Personally I don't doubt that some innocent people have been executed.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Remember to remove your pink pantywaist or it might get a bit clammy downstairs. :stunned:

Its contact with Rusty that makes me clammy!

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I watched a programme on Nat Geo (or Discovery maybe) called Texas Death Row. Its fair to say that cases that are lacking evidence still result in the Death penalty, its rare for a person to be pardoned once they are in Death Row, particularly in Texas capital punishment capital of the States!. Personally I don't doubt that some innocent people have been executed.

Don't recall the guys name but I remember seeing an interview with a death row inmate who had severe mental issues, met his lawyer the morning of his trial and was convicted on his own confession. During the interview he repeated his confession but also confessed to a number of other scenarios the interviewer put to him including 'yes that was me, I crept into all of the childrens bedrooms on Christmas morning and left gifts at the end of their beds'. Poor Americans get appauling quality of legal representation generally and cases like that are the result.

 

[steveo]

I crept into all of the childrens bedrooms on Christmas morning and left gifts at the end of their beds'. Poor Americans get appauling quality of legal representation generally and cases like that are the result.

You mean they killed Father Christmas? Bugger.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

You mean they killed Father Christmas? Bugger.

It was a typo, they thought they were killing Satan Claus, but the American legal system works that you can delay it but sooner or later you are gonna fry.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Poor Americans get appauling quality of legal representation generally and cases like that are the result.

Then they should work harder. And stop committing appalling crimes.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Then they should work harder. And stop committing appalling crimes.

soz for my spelling. If they had decent legal representation then we could have more confidence that they had got the person who had committed the appalling crime.

 

[Reg Martin]

I think I am against capital punishment for the same reason I am against abortion but both subjects provoke some strange reactions...
This week there have been a number of capital punishment cases in the news, one has generated a lot of protest from the left, the others far less so. Can you guess which one and speculate why:
1) USA executes black man
2) Iran publically hangs 17 year old
3) Saudi Arabia executes sorceror

 

[Napster]

3) Saudi Arabia executes sorceror

Merlin?????

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I think I am against capital punishment for the same reason I am against abortion but both subjects provoke some strange reactions...
This week there have been a number of capital punishment cases in the news, one has generated a lot of protest from the left, the others far less so. Can you guess which one and speculate why:
1) USA executes black man
2) Iran publically hangs 17 year old
3) Saudi Arabia executes sorceror

I can guess which one. I think the reasons why are that 1) there was a chance that a worldwide petition could change the outcome 2) that there were legal routes available to stop the execution 3) that evidence / testimonies had changed since the trial 3) luck. The luck eliment is that Amnesty International are your best hope if you are up for execution and they have to pick cases to highlight rather than the story get lost in a sea of other cases. Thats why we know so little about the cases in China - the shere volume of them, the secrecy, and the massively reduced impact of worldwide public outcry. Amina Lawal's case always sticks in my mind and her case being in Muslim Nigeria is closer to your Iran and Saudi cases but the difference being that AI saw a route in to save her, and she is still alive now.
Protest 'from the left' is largely started by Amnesty International who the left would like to claim as their own but they are neither left nor right wing. If you see them as from the left and you disagree with capital punishment maybe you are more left leaning than you think. Its as if you are implying the difference between left and right is the difference between good and evil. Just playing, the work of Amnesty shouldn't get mixed up in politiacl leanings - they are pure and they save lives.