Pre-Match Thread HMRC v SUFC - FINAL hearing on 1st March. DISMISSED

[Whispering Bob]

Correct. Although I think it was more like £750k (to be paid in 3x £250k installments). VJ owned 55% at the time and if SEL only paid for two thirds of that, then realistically that's only 36%.

The most recent shareholder list (published 2019, I think). shows SEL as holding 70% of the shares. That's the 55% that he wants everyone to believe he purchased from VJ, plus another 15%. I think the additional 15% has been acquired by buying shares from other shareholders in piecemeal fashion over the years. You can see from Companies House officer returns for the club how many Directors have been and gone since 1998. John Adams stayed on the board for a year or so before leaving in 1999, SEL probably purchased any shareholding he had. There will have been more like that I think. Michael Markscheffel I think disposed of some of his shares over the years too.

IMO it's probably not a coincidence that the 36% of Vic Jobson's shares that SEL actually paid for, plus the 15% that it has stealthily acquired over the past 23 years, equals 51%. Was that RM protecting himself so that, if he was ever rumbled, he could at least say that he is still majority shareholder even if the final third of Vic Jobson's shares that he never paid for are legally declared as not belonging to him?

All conjecture on my part, of course.

More than likely. Thanks for that MB. I did notice ex directors such as Adams and Markscheffel (plus others) still held quite a few shares (but no significant percentage).

 

[BedfordShrimper]

All of these snippets of info and hearsay we are getting on social media is really causing chaos now. The club have got to put out a statement soon. I have these nervous feelings in the back of my mind everyday and this is due to the complete silence from official channels. I understand there may not be an answer yet but they have to let us know the CURRENT situation.

 

[Supa Shrimpa]

All of these snippets of info and hearsay we are getting on social media is really causing chaos now. The club have got to put out a statement soon. I have these nervous feelings in the back of my mind everyday and this is due to the complete silence from official channels. I understand there may not be an answer yet but they have to let us know the CURRENT situation.

Exactly ! We have had no official information from the club regarding the recent court case. Not a word, yet he can find time to have a chat with Stan about footballing matters !

 

[rlb999]

No doubt the club will release a statement today, giving everyone the chance to say what a poor statement it is.

 

[hlane17]

As always, goings on at SUFC are about as clear as mud. To be honest, even with statements this is the case.

I'd rather Ron was getting his **** together and we spend the time preparing in case he doesn't. More interested to hear from the Trust on contingency measures to be honest.

 

[LennySUFC]

Statement Draft
- £5m loan was delayed due to Lloyds bank. Spoke to a very nice man on the phone who will release the funds.
- 1000 person banquet hall at FF will bring £25-£50m extra revenue a year
- Trust me, I've been getting away with it for years.
- I love the club you f****** idiots.
- Maher testimonial first game at FF
- Enjoyed being served tea and coffee at the last home game by someone who hasn't been paid since November.
- If we'd managed to get Larsson in none of this would have happened.
- Chris Phillips is a lying piece of crap and nothing he reports is true, excluding everything he reports.

 

[Scamps]

Well another day has gone and closer to being wound up.! And still nothing from the club. 35 days to go.

 

[Liam AAS]

All of these snippets of info and hearsay we are getting on social media is really causing chaos now. The club have got to put out a statement soon. I have these nervous feelings in the back of my mind everyday and this is due to the complete silence from official channels. I understand there may not be an answer yet but they have to let us know the CURRENT situation.

I get this but I trust Ron about as far as I could throw him, and he knows it. Very little point in a club statement when none of us will believe it.

 

[TrueBlue]

Yawn, the standard response at the moment, entirely predictable unfortunately.

As pointed out by @bazzashrimper all I am eluding to is there has been some wonderful times under RM stewardship, there can be no denying it, the same as there have been some dreadful times too.

I’m not for one minute suggesting we all sit here and just dish out praise for things he has done and ignore the awful stuff just recently. There have been more negatives than positives, I’m just saying there have been positives too.

“my parallel world” and “disconnected from reality” okay. Not having another dig at mental health again there are you? Kind of brings down a whole argument if you are going down that route for a second time…

“Ron’s love boys”? Just because some on here know that RM is so close to his pot of gold, and it’ll cost hundreds of millions to get him out of our Club at the moment, and aren’t prepared to join in protests doesn’t make us “Ron love boys”. There isn’t a single person in our fan base I’d suggest, that believes RM is the future and is the rightful custodian of our Club.

I think a lot of people on here need to relax a little, yes things are awful, things have never been this bad with what’s in the public (some of the ITK people will know just how bad it was over the summer, but obviously that’s all BS as some suggest), but everything is just covering the same ground over and over. Every thread gets hijacked about abuse of RM, then of the fans you even dare suggest not everything is his fault, and then it just goes on and on.

Yes there has been some great times when Ron has been owner… but out of all them great times how many are because of Ron rather than the fans/players/management because as I see it you can argue that the good times could have stayed good under better ownership!

 

[TrueBlue]

As always, goings on at SUFC are about as clear as mud. To be honest, even with statements this is the case.

I'd rather Ron was getting his **** together and we spend the time preparing in case he doesn't. More interested to hear from the Trust on contingency measures to be honest.

Indeed I did request for this to be published but nothing so far, would certainly put some minds to rest

 

[loz]

Yes there has been some great times when Ron has been owner… but out of all them great times how many are because of Ron rather than the fans/players/management because as I see it you can argue that the good times could have stayed good under better ownership!

equally, you can argue they might not have happened at all under worse ownership... you can't really separate like that. Ron was responsible for bringing in the good managers we've had in that period and supporting them to make signings so deserves some of the credit. In the same way, he deserves some of the blame for the mess under /Bond/Campbell/Brown II/Moseley - not just the issues with embargoes, but not having a structure in place that stopped e.g. Brown over-paying players who were not up to the job.

 

[teabee1]

Not a word, yet he can find time to have a chat with Stan about footballing matters !

Which suggests that there may be life in the old dog yet (post 1st March)….

Would be nice to hear it from the horses mouth though…

 

[euroshrimper]

I get this but I trust Ron about as far as I could throw him, and he knows it. Very little point in a club statement when none of us will believe it.

Many people will agree with this including me which is why a couple of days ago I posted that I would like to see a "truthful" update from the club's CEO. We are mainly adults and grown ups with a bit of life experience and intelligence so I'm sure if they genuinely told us the truth we could all handle it in our own way.........
It's the not knowing that get you ! ! !

 

[Dubai]

Many people will agree with this including me which is why a couple of days ago I posted that I would like to see a "truthful" update from the club's CEO. We are mainly adults and grown ups with a bit of life experience and intelligence so I'm sure if they genuinely told us the truth we could all handle it in our own way.........
It's the not knowing that get you ! ! !

not so sure mate

 

[Napster]

Correct. Although I think it was more like £750k (to be paid in 3x £250k installments). VJ owned 55% at the time and if SEL only paid for two thirds of that, then realistically that's only 36%.

The most recent shareholder list (published 2019, I think). shows SEL as holding 70% of the shares. That's the 55% that he wants everyone to believe he purchased from VJ, plus another 15%. I think the additional 15% has been acquired by buying shares from other shareholders in piecemeal fashion over the years. You can see from Companies House officer returns for the club how many Directors have been and gone since 1998. John Adams stayed on the board for a year or so before leaving in 1999, SEL probably purchased any shareholding he had. There will have been more like that I think. Michael Markscheffel I think disposed of some of his shares over the years too.

IMO it's probably not a coincidence that the 36% of Vic Jobson's shares that SEL actually paid for, plus the 15% that it has stealthily acquired over the past 23 years, equals 51%. Was that RM protecting himself so that, if he was ever rumbled, he could at least say that he is still majority shareholder even if the final third of Vic Jobson's shares that he never paid for are legally declared as not belonging to him?

All conjecture on my part, of course.

I think Jobson has waited far too long to make any play anyway even if what he said is true.

I'm not legally sure, but surely if SEL reneged on the third instalment, doesn't that annul the whole deal? Surely it can't mean they only own 2/3 if they paid 2/3?

In any case, he's set up a new company, ironically called Ethical Estates (after his Dad I assume).

 

[Medway Blue]

I think Jobson has waited far too long to make any play anyway even if what he said is true.

I'm not legally sure, but surely if SEL reneged on the third instalment, doesn't that annul the whole deal? Surely it can't mean they only own 2/3 if they paid 2/3?

In any case, he's set up a new company, ironically called Ethical Estates (after his Dad I assume).

Yeah indeed, and I think Jobson Jr. may have received legal advice to that effect a year ago.

Not sure on the 2nd point. You'd think so, but who would ownership default to in that case? Would 23 years of stewardship and "investing £20m+ into the club" (lol) make the entirety of those shares his despite having not paid in full? Christ knows.

 

[TrueBlue]

equally, you can argue they might not have happened at all under worse ownership... you can't really separate like that. Ron was responsible for bringing in the good managers we've had in that period and supporting them to make signings so deserves some of the credit. In the same way, he deserves some of the blame for the mess under /Bond/Campbell/Brown II/Moseley - not just the issues with embargoes, but not having a structure in place that stopped e.g. Brown over-paying players who were not up to the job.

Loz indeed you could spin it either way, and as the saying goes (and this applies to Ron) ‘a stopped clock is right twice a day’

As I have said for many years with Ron it’s not usually the plans or ideas that are the problem it’s the method and execution that are terrible and that have cost us

 

[Napster]

Yeah indeed, and I think Jobson Jr. may have received legal advice to that effect a year ago.

Not sure on the 2nd point. You'd think so, but who would ownership default to in that case? Would 23 years of stewardship and "investing £20m+ into the club" (lol) make the entirety of those shares his despite having not paid in full? Christ knows.

Check out Martin Dawn's 1998 Annual Report. cant copy text alas

MARTIN DAWN PLC filing history - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

MARTIN DAWN PLC - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity

find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk

 

[TrueBlue]

Yeah indeed, and I think Jobson Jr. may have received legal advice to that effect a year ago.

Not sure on the 2nd point. You'd think so, but who would ownership default to in that case? Would 23 years of stewardship and "investing £20m+ into the club" (lol) make the entirety of those shares his despite having not paid in full? Christ knows.

A year ago for legal advice would sound correct with the timeframe as I was having regular phone conversations with Jobson Jr around a year ago where he was adamant that Ron owes his family money still. Now whether it’s a genuine interest or a money grab who knows, speaking to j his son he sounded like he cared a lot about the club.

 

[TrueBlue]

I think Jobson has waited far too long to make any play anyway even if what he said is true.

I'm not legally sure, but surely if SEL reneged on the third instalment, doesn't that annul the whole deal? Surely it can't mean they only own 2/3 if they paid 2/3?

In any case, he's set up a new company, ironically called Ethical Estates (after his Dad I assume).

How long did Vic Jobson die after the sale of the club? Maybe the fact of his death has something to do with the last payment not being forthcoming?