High Court hearing v Charterhouse 14/07/2010

[Ayrshire Blue]

As this has been adjourned for four weeks, I take it that means no removal of the transfer embargo?

That's the PFA, totally different which can be sorted any time.....Not saying it will.

 

[pickledseal]

Thats an excellent but bloody depressing summation Smiffy.

 

[Cricko]

I think Ron's efforts at PR are quite frankly abysmal. Scriven, bless him, is not a PR person, but a media person. There is a huge difference. Ron basically needs to come back from his jaunt and give a no-holds barred interview to SZ. But he won't.

Yes and we have been trying for months to arrange such a meeting..with no response.....The words to John Campbell when he confronted RM in the car park ring in my ears constantly..."It's my club not the fans".

 

[Kestrel]

As this has been adjourned for four weeks, I take it that means no removal of the transfer embargo?

bring your boots to RH on the 7th . . . that's if we haven't been wound-up by then

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

and if one of the other debtors had already forced an adjournment and audit, I'd think - I'll go the same way - wait for proof of money/

Precisely. People seem to be looking at this somewhat back-to-front. Today's hearing hasn't told us anything new about the club's financial situation.

If the creditor presses for administration, then an administrator is appointed and at that point the creditor effectively kisses goodbye to some of its debt. He definitely won't get back 100p in the £ in administration. A good result in administration is 50p in the £; I've seen some administrations where the dividend is only 1p in the £.

So, Charterhouse could press for winding up today and risk getting back - say - only £70k. Or maybe even only £1,400. If you're Charterhouse, that's a pretty terrible result, isn't it?

Alternatively, you simply postpone your petition, knowing that the court has ordered the club has to present a full audit of its finances / accounts to court on 2nd August. Charterhouse will of course turn up then, so they can see what the picture is.

In a sense, the 28-day postponement is only there as a "stick" with which to prod the club for cash if the club is solvent. If the club has the money, they'll pay the debt (albeit that having the winding up order still listed will encourage payment on or before 11 August). If the club has no money, it'll be wound up.

2 August is the day, folks. If the club can't show the court it is solvent, the court will probably wind the club up of its own motion.

That's how I see it, at any rate.

Matt

 

[Cricko]

See there's the problem.

Mezcal for starters (Who are top of the pile I believe) are based in the British Virgin Isles?

Just seen this on a Grimsby forum. Details things quite well I think...

1] Sainsburys supplied a loan of £2.5m to the club to enable them to pay their recent debt to HMRC.

2] Sainsburys supplied a further loan of £3m to pay part of a £7.7m debt to the local council. The club still owes the other £4.7m.

3] Sainsburys also loaned the club a further £1.8m to pay other debts.
These are interest-bearing loans which, if not repaid, would lead to Sainsburys taking 76% of South Eastern Leisure Ltd. [prop. Ron Martin] and therefore a controlling interest in the club. Sainsburys would then be free to sell the company to whomever they wished.

4] Southend currently lease a 10 acre training ground from the council through South East Leisure Ltd. [prop. Ron Martin] and the council has agreed to sell this site to Roots Hall Ltd [prop. Ron Martin] but has not yet received the money. This site is a key part of the new stadium development and would also, therefore, become the property of Sainsburys should they take control of that company.

4] Roots Hall Ltd has also agreed to buy 2.3 acres of council land containing a number of properties around the Roots Hall site in order to allow the construction of Sainsburys new store to go ahead. The council has not yet received a penny of that money.

5] The 32 acre site which forms the balance of the new stadium development was purchased from the council for £1,76m in 2007 by Tribeca Property Southend [prop. Ron Martin]. This company is registered in the British Virgin Islands and is owned by another Britsh Virgin Islands company Mezcal Investments [prop. Ron Martin] .

6] Prospects College, which stands in a crucial position as it's site will form the entrance to the car park of the proposed superstore, has refused to have any dealings with any Ron Martin company and is negotiating the sale of its site directly with Sainsburys.

7] Sainsburys also own the land on which the club shop and the entrance to the Roots Hall ground are situated.This was sold to them for £578,000 by Roots Hall Ltd. in return for a £1.2m loan.

8] The club now have just 9 contracted first-team players, some of whom have not been paid recently.

9] A transfer embargo is in place as the club has not repaid a loan of £120,000 to the PFA used to pay outstanding wages last season and also owes loan fees to other clubs.

10] The club has 4 CCJs aginst it, any one of which could lead to a winding-up petition. These resulted from non-payment of money to Deloittes, who did the Fossets Farm feasibility study, a hospitality company. a loan company and a local conference venue - they did not pay for their Player of the Year function! These six-figure debts are in addition to money owed to various directors, past and present, and The Shrimpers Trust.

11] Martin Dawn plc [prop. Ron Martin] owns 50% of South Eastern Leisure UK [prop. Ron Martin] which owns 76% of the club's shares. Martin Dawn plc has debts of £7.6m and is facing a winding-up order from HMRC.The club pays Martin Dawn plc £60,000 per annum as a 'management fee' but what it does for this money has never been specified.
Between 2006 and 2009 Mr Martin took interest-free loans from Martin Dawn plc amounting to £4.7m.

12] Southend United owes £1m to South Eastern Leisure which in turn owes more than £3m to Martin Dawn. Mezcal Investments is owed £1m by Southend United, £3.58m by South Eastern Leisure UK Ltd. and £930,000 by Roots Hall Ltd. It is not known how these debts are linked to Ron Martin's other companies in the British Virgin islands, Cyprus and Jersey! In total, Ron Martin owns 29 companies - 12 of which are registered in this country. The 12 registered here are in debt to the tune of £22m!

Great stuff Lee and just brings to light even more the tangled mess we are in.

 

[Jedi Shrimper]

See there's the problem.

Mezcal for starters (Who are top of the pile I believe) are based in the British Virgin Isles?

Just seen this on a Grimsby forum. Details things quite well I think...

1] Sainsburys supplied a loan of £2.5m to the club to enable them to pay their recent debt to HMRC.

2] Sainsburys supplied a further loan of £3m to pay part of a £7.7m debt to the local council. The club still owes the other £4.7m.

3] Sainsburys also loaned the club a further £1.8m to pay other debts.
These are interest-bearing loans which, if not repaid, would lead to Sainsburys taking 76% of South Eastern Leisure Ltd. [prop. Ron Martin] and therefore a controlling interest in the club. Sainsburys would then be free to sell the company to whomever they wished.

4] Southend currently lease a 10 acre training ground from the council through South East Leisure Ltd. [prop. Ron Martin] and the council has agreed to sell this site to Roots Hall Ltd [prop. Ron Martin] but has not yet received the money. This site is a key part of the new stadium development and would also, therefore, become the property of Sainsburys should they take control of that company.

4] Roots Hall Ltd has also agreed to buy 2.3 acres of council land containing a number of properties around the Roots Hall site in order to allow the construction of Sainsburys new store to go ahead. The council has not yet received a penny of that money.

5] The 32 acre site which forms the balance of the new stadium development was purchased from the council for £1,76m in 2007 by Tribeca Property Southend [prop. Ron Martin]. This company is registered in the British Virgin Islands and is owned by another Britsh Virgin Islands company Mezcal Investments [prop. Ron Martin] .

6] Prospects College, which stands in a crucial position as it's site will form the entrance to the car park of the proposed superstore, has refused to have any dealings with any Ron Martin company and is negotiating the sale of its site directly with Sainsburys.

7] Sainsburys also own the land on which the club shop and the entrance to the Roots Hall ground are situated.This was sold to them for £578,000 by Roots Hall Ltd. in return for a £1.2m loan.

8] The club now have just 9 contracted first-team players, some of whom have not been paid recently.

9] A transfer embargo is in place as the club has not repaid a loan of £120,000 to the PFA used to pay outstanding wages last season and also owes loan fees to other clubs.

10] The club has 4 CCJs aginst it, any one of which could lead to a winding-up petition. These resulted from non-payment of money to Deloittes, who did the Fossets Farm feasibility study, a hospitality company. a loan company and a local conference venue - they did not pay for their Player of the Year function! These six-figure debts are in addition to money owed to various directors, past and present, and The Shrimpers Trust.

11] Martin Dawn plc [prop. Ron Martin] owns 50% of South Eastern Leisure UK [prop. Ron Martin] which owns 76% of the club's shares. Martin Dawn plc has debts of £7.6m and is facing a winding-up order from HMRC.The club pays Martin Dawn plc £60,000 per annum as a 'management fee' but what it does for this money has never been specified.
Between 2006 and 2009 Mr Martin took interest-free loans from Martin Dawn plc amounting to £4.7m.

12] Southend United owes £1m to South Eastern Leisure which in turn owes more than £3m to Martin Dawn. Mezcal Investments is owed £1m by Southend United, £3.58m by South Eastern Leisure UK Ltd. and £930,000 by Roots Hall Ltd. It is not known how these debts are linked to Ron Martin's other companies in the British Virgin islands, Cyprus and Jersey! In total, Ron Martin owns 29 companies - 12 of which are registered in this country. The 12 registered here are in debt to the tune of £22m!

Sweet ****ing jesus.

Well found Smiffy. You can bet No3 is the one Ron really wants to settle (if possible), if he can't a sainsbury's take control it worries me what they might do.

 

[Cricko]

Precisely. People seem to be looking at this somewhat back-to-front. Today's hearing hasn't told us anything new about the club's financial situation.

If the creditor presses for administration, then an administrator is appointed and at that point the creditor effectively kisses goodbye to some of its debt. He definitely won't get back 100p in the £ in administration. A good result in administration is 50p in the £; I've seen some administrations where the dividend is only 1p in the £.

So, Charterhouse could press for winding up today and risk getting back - say - only £70k. Or maybe even only £1,400. If you're Charterhouse, that's a pretty terrible result, isn't it?

Alternatively, you simply postpone your petition, knowing that the court has ordered the club has to present a full audit of its finances / accounts to court on 2nd August. Charterhouse will of course turn up then, so they can see what the picture is.

In a sense, the 28-day postponement is only there as a "stick" with which to prod the club for cash if the club is solvent. If the club has the money, they'll pay the debt (albeit that having the winding up order still listed will encourage payment on or before 11 August). If the club has no money, it'll be wound up.

2 August is the day, folks. If the club can't show the court it is solvent, the court will probably wind the club up of its own motion.

That's how I see it, at any rate.

Matt

And In theory I would agree Matt, but we were told and the high court were told last week the money was in place and it would be paid to CH..How come it has not been, or is the debt so high 140k means nothing in the big picture.

 

[Kestrel]

"It's my club not the fans".

he's not wrong - but where would the club be with no fans ??

arrogant little ****

 

[Beefy]

It was always on the cards that we owed them more....it seems they are taking guidance from HMRC over this...I would say NO money was offered by the club today.

I'd suggest that it was - it wouldn't look good for the next Court case if it was shown that The Club was lying in Court. SUFC said last week that funds were ready to be paid to clear to 140k debt but today's events read to me that the creditor are moving the goalposts with an eye on the total amount due to be repaid, just as HMRC did with the original winding-up petition last year (as of course they are perfectly entitled to do).

 

[class]

How did that appear on a Grimsby forum??

 

[Onion_Bag_Dave]

he's not wrong - but where where the club be with no fans ??

arrogant little ****

See the problem is, his ownership means not even ****ing 0.1% of my love that my blood has for this club.

**** OFF MARTIN YOU ABSOLUTE ****!

 

[Onion_Bag_Dave]

I'd suggest that it was - it wouldn't look good for the next Court case if it was shown that The Club was lying in Court. SUFC said last week that funds were ready to be paid to clear to 140k debt but today's events read to me that the creditor are moving the goalposts with an eye on the total amount due to be repaid, just as HMRC did with the original winding-up petition last petition last year (as of course they are perfectly entitled to do).

What really sickens me is, it's not the club that is lying its Ron boy ****ing Martin and his chums.

 

[Cricko]

I'd suggest that it was - it wouldn't look good for the next Court case if it was shown that The Club was lying in Court. SUFC said last week that funds were ready to be paid to clear to 140k debt but today's events read to me that the creditor are moving the goalposts with an eye on the total amount due to be repaid, just as HMRC did with the original winding-up petition last petition last year (as of course they are perfectly entitled to do).

Yes I agree with that Beefy in a further post I made.

 

[J]

I think the amounts are irrelevant now.. What is far more important - is that the Chairman, and indeed board members who side with him are ****ing incompetent, they cannot run this business, and that is indeed a fact.

 

[Jam_Man]

I think the amounts are irrelevant now.. What is far more important - is that the Chairman, and indeed board members who side with him are ****ing incompetent, they cannot run this business, and that is indeed a fact.

Incompetent or totally lacking in financial resources.

Either way its difficult to see where we go to get ourselves out of this and build a new stadium.....

 

[Onion_Bag_Dave]

I think the amounts are irrelevant now.. What is far more important - is that the Chairman, and indeed board members who side with him are ****ing incompetent, they cannot run this business, and that is indeed a fact.

Seconded.
I am actually on the edge of tears my fellow shrimpers. Where is the nearest lake?

 

[Cricko]

How did that appear on a Grimsby forum??

Smiffy is from Grimsby ..surely you have heard him speak.

 

[Smiffy]

How did that appear on a Grimsby forum??

**** knows.

Here it is - http://www.thefishy.co.uk/cgi-bin/forum/Blah.pl?m-1277824693/s-15/

Great read though, in terms of detailing the total ****ing mess we are in.

 

[united we stand]

Precisely. People seem to be looking at this somewhat back-to-front. Today's hearing hasn't told us anything new about the club's financial situation.

If the creditor presses for administration, then an administrator is appointed and at that point the creditor effectively kisses goodbye to some of its debt. He definitely won't get back 100p in the £ in administration. A good result in administration is 50p in the £; I've seen some administrations where the dividend is only 1p in the £.

So, Charterhouse could press for winding up today and risk getting back - say - only £70k. Or maybe even only £1,400. If you're Charterhouse, that's a pretty terrible result, isn't it?

Alternatively, you simply postpone your petition, knowing that the court has ordered the club has to present a full audit of its finances / accounts to court on 2nd August. Charterhouse will of course turn up then, so they can see what the picture is.

In a sense, the 28-day postponement is only there as a "stick" with which to prod the club for cash if the club is solvent. If the club has the money, they'll pay the debt (albeit that having the winding up order still listed will encourage payment on or before 11 August). If the club has no money, it'll be wound up.

2 August is the day, folks. If the club can't show the court it is solvent, the court will probably wind the club up of its own motion.

That's how I see it, at any rate.

Matt

Matt that makes sense to me. I would also add the following

Did Ron know that this was going to happen today--- none of us know the answer to that?

If the answer is yes then this possibly explains

• Why he has stayed on holiday- he wasn't needed for the court case.
• Why we didn't bother to pay them- we can use the money better somewhere else

As always the problem is that we only see a small part of the jigsaw. Maybe Charterhouse are right at the bottom of our list to pay and are not one of our biggest issues right now .
At the time of saying 'we will pay them' he beelived that they would take us to court

Clearly this is not what any of us wanted to hear, and its very diffcult/impossible to be positive over todays news.
ps- why is everyone taking the audit as gospel ? The initial reporting on us last week was totally wrong.