Goodbye Piggy Eyes

[Yorkshire Blue]

Seconded - he's a phenomenal batsman; by a mile the best wicket-keeper batsman playing at the moment. Not sure how you compare him to Gilchrist, in that Gilly's real forte was his ability to come in down the order and put his foot on the accelerator like no other, before or since. But he and Gilly stand head-and-shoulders above other wicketkeeper-batsmen of our time (although Prior ain't bad, and nor was Stewart).

Really, the only thing missing from Sangakkara's CV (and perhaps the reason he's under-appreciated here) is a big score in England, which I have no doubt he will get this summer.

Matt

I wouldn't compare him to Gilchrist, I'd compare him to Ponting as he rarely keeps these days.

My top 5 would be:

1. Lara
2. Ponting
3. Tendulkar
4. Sangakkara
5. S. Waugh

Another Sangakkara fact: he's scored a hundred and averaged at least 45 in tests every season since 2005/06 (when he averaged 40.14) - that's ten seasons (ie 2006, 2006-07, 2007 etc).

Steve Waugh's been marked down for not even being the best batsman in his family.

Best keeper-batsman for my money would be Flower. He averaged an astonishing 53 with the gloves and scored test hundreds against the likes of Murali; Waqar and Wasim, and later Shoaib; Ambrose and Walsh; Pollock and Ntini. Sadly only played the one test against Australia: McGrath got him in both innings.

 

[canveyshrimper]

Don't think he did. IIRC he made 200 v Eng for Australia A or the President's XI then the following week got another double when England played his state (Western Australia?) in another tour game and got called up later that Convict summer on the back of that.

Quite right, I remember that 200 and was convinced it was in a Test Match. His highest score in tests was 100*, he finished with a first class average of over 49 with a highest of 300*. He actually played for Queebsland.

 

[undercovershrimper]

Ah you have fallen into the trap of underestimating Vettori, let me give you a few stats 345 test wickets, 282 odi wickets and 35 in T20 so thats 662 in total at present, add to that 6 Test 100's and as near as makes no difference 6500 International runs, so i cant really see how you cant put him on the list of nominees to be honest. As for Swann he has just bought the art of Off Spin bowling back into World Cricket

 

[canveyshrimper]

Ah you have fallen into the trap of underestimating Vettori, let me give you a few stats 345 test wickets, 282 odi wickets and 35 in T20 so thats 662 in total at present so i cant really see how you can put him on the list of nominees to be honest. As far Swann has just bought the art of Off Spin bowling back into World Cricket

English cricket maybe, but not world cricket, what about Murali who as an off spinner has 800 Test wickets? Saqlain Mushtaq and Harbhajan Singh were/are pretty good.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Ah you have fallen into the trap of underestimating Vettori, let me give you a few stats 345 test wickets, 282 odi wickets and 35 in T20 so thats 662 in total at present so i cant really see how you cant put him on the list of nominees to be honest. As far Swann has just bought the art of Off Spin bowling back into World Cricket

Vettori has a test bowling average of 33.98.

Since 31 March 1991, 31 bowlers have taken 200 or more test wickets and only one of them has a worse bowling average than Vettori (Danish Kaneria). In fact, Vettori is over a full run worse than the man in 29th. In contrast to Vettori's bowling average of 34, Curtley Ambrose took his wickets in this period (all 305 of them) at 20.03 that's nearly at half the cost.

Two things have reinvigorated off-spin bowling: (1) hawkeye, meaning batsman just can't pad up and (2) West Indian batting. Swann still takes his wickets at 40 against half-decent batting line-ups (eg Australia and India). I fully expect that a summer of Sangakkara and Tendulkar will see his average rise over 30.

Anyone advocating Swann over Steyn needs their head examining.

 

[number11]

Joining in this late due to end of financial year stuff......

Ponting was one of those players that you loved to hate, but would want him in your side. A fighter, but not someone who got bogged down like Dravid, he could score a good rate and take the game away from opponents, and also scored big centuries from the tricky number 3 position. That he is Australian and lost the ashes 3 times is good reason to poke fun at him, but I hope he is remembered for the batsman he was. There were issues with the 'spirit of cricket' but that was just a process that had been going on before, even before Waugh's attempts at 'mental disintegration'. Personally, when I went to the final day of the Lords test in 2009 my girlfriend was taking pictures before play as the Australians came past warming up. Spotting this Ponting stopped, posed for a picture (without being asked) and then dragged Brett Lee (who wasnt playing but was joining in the warm ups) to pose as well. Given he had been booed for 4 days by the English fans and was facing a histroric defeat this stuck in my mind as overriding down to earth decency.

Id have Lara at the top of the pile for batsmen in the last 20 years, with Tendulkar not far behind and Ponting not far behind him. Then Id have Kallis, beyond which Im struggling to justify a 5th pick ahead of the rest when Waugh, Hayden (booo), Dravid, Sangakkara, Jayawardene and Yousuf have all had periods pushing those listed in my top 4 close. SAngakkara's stats are compelling, even without taking into account his keeping.

English top 5........ Strictly on last 20 years, Gooch and Robin Smith would be included. They were facing some of the all time great bowling attacks from 90-93 and for a time were ranked 1 and 3 in the world. I agree with MTS though in that they do seem to belong in another era (Not just because they sported a tache despite being percieved as 'tough guys'....). Thorpe is a man for all attacks, opposition and surfaces, and Vaughan played the greatest couple of series Ive witnessed in my lifetime (The class of Vaughan flaying Mcgrath Warne and co will stick in my memory longer than Cook's ruthless accumulation this winter. Heck even an out of form Vaughan was a thing of beauty, playing a text book drive or forward defensive down the wrong line as his off stump goes cartwheeling, rather than Cooks angled bat edge to slips), Trescothick as our version of Hayden and KP would also be in my top 5, leaving one more place for Stewart and Atherton to fight for.

Bowlers, well Warne is up there but I struggle to justify Murali due to him chucking the ball and it being overlooked for political reasons. Mcrath, Ambrose, Akram and Warne woud make a fearsome attack, with Younis and Pollock on standby. Flower as keeper.

So a hybrid team:

Hayden
Flower (WK)
Lara
Tendulkar
Kallis
Sangakkara

Akram
Warne
Ambrose
McGrath

Leaves space for an allrounder (in addition to Kallis) or strenghten the batting or bowling....... think Id just play with ten men and maybe have Gary Pratt as a sub fielder.

 

[number11]

And If I was to select a World 11 now, based on current form and ability.......

Cook
Sehwag (If only to see the difference in scoring rates between the openers)
Amla
Kallis
Tendulkar
Jayawardene
Sangakkara
Steyn
Zaheer Khan


And then Im struggling big time........What a paucity of bowlers.......Morkel, Broad, Anderson (in favorable conditions), would come under consideration, as would Asif and Amar if they were not banned. Spin, well take your pick from Ajmal, Swann, Singh, Vettori, Mendis (who has never impressed me whenever Ive seen him bowl).

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Joining in this late due to end of financial year stuff......

Ponting was one of those players that you loved to hate, but would want him in your side. A fighter, but not someone who got bogged down like Dravid, he could score a good rate and take the game away from opponents, and also scored big centuries from the tricky number 3 position. That he is Australian and lost the ashes 3 times is good reason to poke fun at him, but I hope he is remembered for the batsman he was. There were issues with the 'spirit of cricket' but that was just a process that had been going on before, even before Waugh's attempts at 'mental disintegration'. Personally, when I went to the final day of the Lords test in 2009 my girlfriend was taking pictures before play as the Australians came past warming up. Spotting this Ponting stopped, posed for a picture (without being asked) and then dragged Brett Lee (who wasnt playing but was joining in the warm ups) to pose as well. Given he had been booed for 4 days by the English fans and was facing a histroric defeat this stuck in my mind as overriding down to earth decency.

Id have Lara at the top of the pile for batsmen in the last 20 years, with Tendulkar not far behind and Ponting not far behind him. Then Id have Kallis, beyond which Im struggling to justify a 5th pick ahead of the rest when Waugh, Hayden (booo), Dravid, Sangakkara, Jayawardene and Yousuf have all had periods pushing those listed in my top 4 close. SAngakkara's stats are compelling, even without taking into account his keeping.

English top 5........ Strictly on last 20 years, Gooch and Robin Smith would be included. They were facing some of the all time great bowling attacks from 90-93 and for a time were ranked 1 and 3 in the world. I agree with MTS though in that they do seem to belong in another era (Not just because they sported a tache despite being percieved as 'tough guys'....). Thorpe is a man for all attacks, opposition and surfaces, and Vaughan played the greatest couple of series Ive witnessed in my lifetime (The class of Vaughan flaying Mcgrath Warne and co will stick in my memory longer than Cook's ruthless accumulation this winter. Heck even an out of form Vaughan was a thing of beauty, playing a text book drive or forward defensive down the wrong line as his off stump goes cartwheeling, rather than Cooks angled bat edge to slips), Trescothick as our version of Hayden and KP would also be in my top 5, leaving one more place for Stewart and Atherton to fight for.

Bowlers, well Warne is up there but I struggle to justify Murali due to him chucking the ball and it being overlooked for political reasons. Mcrath, Ambrose, Akram and Warne woud make a fearsome attack, with Younis and Pollock on standby. Flower as keeper.

So a hybrid team:

Hayden
Flower (WK)
Lara
Tendulkar
Kallis
Sangakkara

Akram
Warne
Ambrose
McGrath

Leaves space for an allrounder (in addition to Kallis) or strenghten the batting or bowling....... think Id just play with ten men and maybe have Gary Pratt as a sub fielder.

Dean Jones on Murali's action

The difference between Murali and Warne is that Murali was cleared of cheating.

Warne's a convicted drugs cheat. He's been convicted of receiving illegal payments from bookkeepers. He's been convicted of dissent and intimidatory appealing yet no-one seems to bat an eye-lid to his inclusion in such a side. It's double standards.

 

[number11]

Dean Jones on Murali's action

The difference between Murali and Warne is that Murali was cleared of cheating.

Warne's a convicted drugs cheat. He's been convicted of receiving illegal payments from bookkeepers. He's been convicted of dissent and intimidatory appealing yet no-one seems to bat an eye-lid to his inclusion in such a side. It's double standards.

I'm not so sure it is. Warne was punished for his offences. An equivalent would have been, oh look Warne is good for the game, lets let him off the rule breaches and in fact change the law so he can continue to play.

I can appreciate why some favour Murali, but on this one, I'm with Sir Geoffrey.

 

[Ron Manager]

Joining in this late due to end of financial year stuff......

Ponting was one of those players that you loved to hate, but would want him in your side. A fighter, but not someone who got bogged down like Dravid, he could score a good rate and take the game away from opponents, and also scored big centuries from the tricky number 3 position. That he is Australian and lost the ashes 3 times is good reason to poke fun at him, but I hope he is remembered for the batsman he was. There were issues with the 'spirit of cricket' but that was just a process that had been going on before, even before Waugh's attempts at 'mental disintegration'. Personally, when I went to the final day of the Lords test in 2009 my girlfriend was taking pictures before play as the Australians came past warming up. Spotting this Ponting stopped, posed for a picture (without being asked) and then dragged Brett Lee (who wasnt playing but was joining in the warm ups) to pose as well. Given he had been booed for 4 days by the English fans and was facing a histroric defeat this stuck in my mind as overriding down to earth decency.

He's been pretty much vilified over here in Oz recently (they hate losing, they really hate losing to us - Punter's been the scapegoat for that). I don't get it though. I don't like him but then I'm English so that tells you he was doing his job properly, hopefully history will judge him kindly.