General Boxing Thread

[Blue_Wes]

Everything’s subjective, but here’s my top 5

1. Vasyl Lomachenko
2. Gennady Golovkin
3. Olek Usyk
4. Mikey Garcia
5. Canelo

Special mentions for; Terence Crawford, Gervonta Davis, Errol Spence Jr, & Keith Thurman who are all on the cusp of being discussed in the same bracket, but for me are still a couple of “big” wins away from truly being considerd for that list. I’d even be tempted to add Carl Frampton to that shortlist. He’s a few wins away from really cementing himself as an exceptional fighter, although at 31, age is against him.

Intentional omissions include Manny Pac, who is past it in my eyes. The eventual winner of the Fury/AJ/Wilder love triangle would probably crack the list, but I can’t consider either of them for now, as we simply don’t know who’s best between them. Billy Jo Saunders would be in with a shout, if he can beat one or both of Canelo & Triple G.

No Hughie Fury, mate?

 

[GBJ]

No Hughie Fury, mate?

One day....

 

[Blue_Wes]

One day....

Haha.

To be honest, it's hard to argue with your list, I'd probably switch Crawford and Canelo out the top five, Crawford having unified light welter.

1. Loma
2. GGG
3. Usyk
4. Crawford
5. Garcia

Canelo, Spence, Inoue (although I'm jumping on the bandwagon a bit here, having only seen his last three performances), would go towards my top ten. Not sure who else, a winner from a decisive third bout of Santa Cruz / Frampton would probably make, and I'm edging towards AJ as no.10.

Honourable mention to Frank Buglioni.....

 

[buffalowolf]

Never has thats why hes not that famous ,only in Thailand.Needs to go to the States and fight someone decent ,then perhaps he might get more recognition and money.Thats what Pacman did many years ago.

 

[GBJ]

Haha.

To be honest, it's hard to argue with your list, I'd probably switch Crawford and Canelo out the top five, Crawford having unified light welter.

1. Loma
2. GGG
3. Usyk
4. Crawford
5. Garcia

Canelo, Spence, Inoue (although I'm jumping on the bandwagon a bit here, having only seen his last three performances), would go towards my top ten. Not sure who else, a winner from a decisive third bout of Santa Cruz / Frampton would probably make, and I'm edging towards AJ as no.10.

Honourable mention to Frank Buglioni.....

Yeah I purposely omitted Crawford, not because he’s not good enough, but simply as his resume isn’t a standout one. It’s good, but not exceptional. He’s a couple of superfights away from it IMO.

 

[Ricey]

My top 5 is:

1. Loma (of course)
2. Garcia
3. GGG
4. Usyk
5. Crawford

Crawford jumps Usyk and GGG if he beats Spence. Both him and Usyk unified their divisions. Crawford has had easier opponents than Usyk but is a 2 weight world champ after the Horn win. Garcia pips GGG in my opinion because he’s a 4 weight world champ and has proven himself in every division he has fought in. GGG’s performances against Brook and Jacobs were sub par, he won against Canelo in the first fight but he has the chance to boost his stock again next month. Inoue is a beast and will definietly boost his stock with a good run out in the WBSS. Joshua just about gets into my top 10.

 

[GBJ]

Not saying you guys are wrong in including Joshua in a top 10, as it’s very subjective, meaning there is no right or wrong, but I’d like to know how’s you come to that conclusion.

My reason for not having Joshua in there, is that he isn’t even the proven best in his division.

I’d certainly have the winner of Joshua/Fury/Wilder in there, but until they eventually meet, and we have a clear outcome, there’s too much uncertainty to warrant either of them 3 in there, IMHO.

 

[Ricey]

Not saying you guys are wrong in including Joshua in a top 10, as it’s very subjective, meaning there is no right or wrong, but I’d like to know how’s you come to that conclusion.

My reason for not having Joshua in there, is that he isn’t even the proven best in his division.

I’d certainly have the winner of Joshua/Fury/Wilder in there, but until they eventually meet, and we have a clear outcome, there’s too much uncertainty to warrant either of them 3 in there, IMHO.

He is on the cusp so at 10, but he could easily be knocked out by Frampton or Santa Cruz. It’s purely because he holds 3 of the 4 heavyweight belts.

 

[GBJ]

He is on the cusp so at 10, but he could easily be knocked out by Frampton or Santa Cruz. It’s purely because he holds 3 of the 4 heavyweight belts.

I’d definitely have Frampton in the top 10, and say he’s more worthy of a spot than Joshua.

I’d argue that Frampton’s resume (on a P4P level) is better than Joshua’s. LSC, Donaire, Quigg, & Martinez are all bigger & better wins compared to Joshua’s one big win, which was a life-and-death victory against a broken Wlad.

I will concede though, that the eventual winner of the Joshua/Fury/Wilder triangle, will be top 3 P4P, possibly even number 1, (depending on how long we have to wait to find out)

 

[Ricey]

I’d definitely have Frampton in the top 10, and say he’s more worthy of a spot than Joshua.

I’d argue that Frampton’s resume (on a P4P level) is better than Joshua’s. LSC, Donaire, Quigg, & Martinez are all bigger & better wins compared to Joshua’s one big win, which was a life-and-death victory against a broken Wlad.

I will concede though, that the eventual winner of the Joshua/Fury/Wilder triangle, will be top 3 P4P, possibly even number 1, (depending on how long we have to wait to find out)

See I disagree with you there. The winner of that triangle if it ever comes will be in the top 5 but nowhere near no.1! Not whilst Loma, Garcia and Crawford are still banging people out. Anyway you’re forgetting that after Usyk schools Bellew he’s moving up and will destroy all of them! A heavyweight that moves like a middleweight is a dangerous concept!

 

[GBJ]

See I disagree with you there. The winner of that triangle if it ever comes will be in the top 5 but nowhere near no.1! Not whilst Loma, Garcia and Crawford are still banging people out. Anyway you’re forgetting that after Usyk schools Bellew he’s moving up and will destroy all of them! A heavyweight that moves like a middleweight is a dangerous concept!

See, that’s why P4P lists are so subjective, as there’s so many different variables that it’s simply impossible to agree on all of them.

As for Usyk, well as dangerous a concept as it may be, it’s not one that’s paid off historically.
Off the top of my head, I can think of only two elite Cruiserweights, who have moved up & won titles in the Heavyweight division; David Haye, who’s HW run was fairly farcical. And Evander Holyfield. Usyk is good, maybe great even. But he’s no Real Deal Holyfield.

On top of that, he’s nearly 32, which isn’t old, but isn’t prime either. Comparing him to the top 3 in the division, he’s much smaller in size, with much shorter reach:
Joshua - 6”6 and 83” reach
Wilder - 6”7 and 84” reach
Fury - 6”9 and 85” reach
Usyk - 6”3 and 78” reach


They’d be interesting matches for sure, but I can’t see how he beats the bigger guys. Like the old saying goes, a good big guy will always beat a good smaller guy.

Although I think he’s got every chance against people like Povetkin & Whyte, who are incredibly limited fighters

 

[Ricey]

See, that’s why P4P lists are so subjective, as there’s so many different variables that it’s simply impossible to agree on all of them.

As for Usyk, well as dangerous a concept as it may be, it’s not one that’s paid off historically.
Off the top of my head, I can think of only two elite Cruiserweights, who have moved up & won titles in the Heavyweight division; David Haye, who’s HW run was fairly farcical. And Evander Holyfield. Usyk is good, maybe great even. But he’s no Real Deal Holyfield.

On top of that, he’s nearly 32, which isn’t old, but isn’t prime either. Comparing him to the top 3 in the division, he’s much smaller in size, with much shorter reach:
Joshua - 6”6 and 83” reach
Wilder - 6”7 and 84” reach
Fury - 6”9 and 85” reach
Usyk - 6”3 and 78” reach


They’d be interesting matches for sure, but I can’t see how he beats the bigger guys. Like the old saying goes, a good big guy will always beat a good smaller guy.

Although I think he’s got every chance against people like Povetkin & Whyte, who are incredibly limited fighters

I see your point and completely agree but Usyk is a different breed. His movement and footwork is something special. I feel he is the man to break that tradition of good big guys beating good smaller guys. Only time will tell and his first test will be against Bellew and we will have an idea of how he will get on depending if they fight at cruiser or heavy.

 

[GBJ]

I see your point and completely agree but Usyk is a different breed. His movement and footwork is something special. I feel he is the man to break that tradition of good big guys beating good smaller guys. Only time will tell and his first test will be against Bellew and we will have an idea of how he will get on depending if they fight at cruiser or heavy.

I don’t see Bellew as much of a challenge (which is par for the course, as I never see Bellew as a challenge for anyone, despite him constantly winning)

Usyk has got the tools to beat him rather comfortably, whether it’s cruiser or heavy.

 

[Ricey]

I don’t see Bellew as much of a challenge (which is par for the course, as I never see Bellew as a challenge for anyone, despite him constantly winning)

Usyk has got the tools to beat him rather comfortably, whether it’s cruiser or heavy.

I don’t see Bellew as a challenge but it would be a hell of a statement if he got him out quickly. Bellew’s last 4 fights have proven he can defy the critics and isn’t a half bad boxer. He’s best mates with Eddie Hearn so he is always going to get more attention on Sky and the Matchroom cards.

 

[Ricey]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1035500610102194176

Oh dear, all kicking off between Sky and Frank Warren.

 

[Ricey]

Anyone watch the Khan fight last night?

Here’s my thoughts, nice early onslaught and looked like he was going to end it early but Vargas showed grit and just took everything and was hurting. Then he managed to land that sweet right and BANG as with most of his career Khan was on his arse. Right on the Bell, now had that early on in the round I think Khan would’ve been in big trouble. He came out laboured for the start of the 3rd and was trying every trick in the book to recover. Had he been in against a Pacquiao, Brook, Spence, Porter, Garcia, Thurman they would’ve pounced and it would be game set and match. Vargas isn’t at that elite level to be able to pounce like the names mentioned above. Khan won most rounds and his speed is there I thought he looked like he struggled in the later rounds. One of the last rounds Vargas hit him with another sweet one and we saw the dance come out again. (If you’re unsure what I mean YouTube the fight against Bredis Prescott)

After the fight he claimed he could’ve ended it but held back on a number of occasions. I call bull**** on that one. I think he tried to end it a number of times but Vargas had the heart of a lion and although he was really hurting he managed to suck up everything that Khan gave him. IMO the second knock down was a back of the head hit and shouldn’t have been counted.

The mic is shoved in front of his face and he goes calling out the same two he did after the Lo Greco fight Pacquiao and Brook but Pacquiao is his no.1! Hearn said that if the Brook fight doesn’t happen next then it doesn’t happen at all.

Which one sells more tickets? IMO Brook v Khan sells more than a Pacquiao fight. I can understand his logic behind wanting the Pacquiao fight first. If he loses that fight (which he will) then he can still have the Brook fight. But if it’s the other way round why would Pacquiao want to fight Khan after losing to Brook.

Khan doesn’t want the Brook fight as he keeps saying it has to be at 147 knowing full well that Brook struggled and always has to make 147. Which is why he moved up to 154. No belts would be on the line so what would be the issue of having it at 150. But khan knows full well that a bigger Brook is an even harder Brook to beat. They interviewed Brook after the fight and he said he is willing to fight him at 147. We should have an idea in the next couple of weeks if it will happen. I think it will be consigned to the ‘what if’ category with Hatton v Witter and Lewis v Bowe.

Another good fight happened across the pond with Danny Garcia v Shawn Porter for Thurman’s vacated WBC title. A good battle and with Garcia known to get the odd decision on points go his way losing unanimous to Porter. Having won a title off Porter before if Brook has stayed at 147 I would be targeting him.

Random fact about Shawn Porter, he beat Usyk in the amateurs at middleweight.

Next up is the big one GGG v Canelo 2 next Saturday.

 

[Ricky Otto]

Anyone watch the Khan fight last night?

Here’s my thoughts, nice early onslaught and looked like he was going to end it early but Vargas showed grit and just took everything and was hurting. Then he managed to land that sweet right and BANG as with most of his career Khan was on his arse. Right on the Bell, now had that early on in the round I think Khan would’ve been in big trouble. He came out laboured for the start of the 3rd and was trying every trick in the book to recover. Had he been in against a Pacquiao, Brook, Spence, Porter, Garcia, Thurman they would’ve pounced and it would be game set and match. Vargas isn’t at that elite level to be able to pounce like the names mentioned above. Khan won most rounds and his speed is there I thought he looked like he struggled in the later rounds. One of the last rounds Vargas hit him with another sweet one and we saw the dance come out again. (If you’re unsure what I mean YouTube the fight against Bredis Prescott)

After the fight he claimed he could’ve ended it but held back on a number of occasions. I call bull**** on that one. I think he tried to end it a number of times but Vargas had the heart of a lion and although he was really hurting he managed to suck up everything that Khan gave him. IMO the second knock down was a back of the head hit and shouldn’t have been counted.

The mic is shoved in front of his face and he goes calling out the same two he did after the Lo Greco fight Pacquiao and Brook but Pacquiao is his no.1! Hearn said that if the Brook fight doesn’t happen next then it doesn’t happen at all.

Which one sells more tickets? IMO Brook v Khan sells more than a Pacquiao fight. I can understand his logic behind wanting the Pacquiao fight first. If he loses that fight (which he will) then he can still have the Brook fight. But if it’s the other way round why would Pacquiao want to fight Khan after losing to Brook.

Khan doesn’t want the Brook fight as he keeps saying it has to be at 147 knowing full well that Brook struggled and always has to make 147. Which is why he moved up to 154. No belts would be on the line so what would be the issue of having it at 150. But khan knows full well that a bigger Brook is an even harder Brook to beat. They interviewed Brook after the fight and he said he is willing to fight him at 147. We should have an idea in the next couple of weeks if it will happen. I think it will be consigned to the ‘what if’ category with Hatton v Whittaker and Lewis v Bowe.

Another good fight happened across the pond with Danny Garcia v Shawn Porter for Thurman’s vacated WBC title. A good battle and with Garcia known to get the odd decision on points go his way losing unanimous to Porter. Having won a title off Porter before if Brook has stayed at 147 I would be targeting him.

Random fact about Shawn Porter, he beat Usyk in the amateurs at middleweight.

Next up is the big one GGG v Canelo 2 next Saturday.

I ended up watching the Khan fight, not one I planned on watching as I can't stand him but was in the pub for the England game and I fancied a couple more beers after, I put a fiver on Vargas at 11/1 because of Khans famous glass chin and I got a little excited when Khan got knocked down. Khan was obviously by far the better boxer, think he won every round apart from the round he was knocked down IMO. Brook would destroy him as would Pacquiao, like everyone I'd love to see Brook v Khan I do think it will happen as well. Don't buy that Brook will only fight him next, think if Khan calls him out after the next fight then Brook would jump at the fight, regardless of what Hearn says

 

[Ricey]

Usyk v Bellew 10th November at Manchester Arena. It’s on!

 

[Ricey]

Well well well it’s deja vu again! Another great 12 rounds of elite level boxing ruined by the crooks of the Nevada boxing commission.

Once again the fight should’ve been either a draw or a win for GGG. Canelo gets the decision when although he fought well he drew at the very best. He was cut and rocked on a number of occasions. But **** me they’ve both got some whiskers on them.

Put this into perspective out of 24 rounds of boxing and 6 judges judging GGG has only be up on one judges card. Are they going to have a 3rd fight? Probably? Does it need to be outside of Vegas? 100%! Will Oscar high heels De La Hoya allow that? Absolutely not!

24 rounds of pure slug fest ruined by ****ty judging and poor decisions. It really does put boxing in a bad light.

Oh well onto Joshua v Povetkin Saturday, hopefully get a decent fight with no dodgy judging if it goes the distance.

 

[Ricey]

Forgot to mention Floyd Mayweather has been upto his old tricks of trying to take the limelight away from the GGG v Canelo fight by announcing MayPac2 is happening in December.