General Boxing Thread

[GBJ]

I'll stick with a Floyd stoppage though, either catching McGregor early with the check-hook, or waiting til McGregor empties the tank & Floyd breaks his heart & the ref waves it off after several unanswered shots.

This guy knows

 

[Ricey]

This guy knows

Question is did you have any money on that?

 

[GBJ]

Question is did you have any money on that?

Of course


















not :facepalm:

 

[Ricky Otto]

It's been quiet here! would like to hear GBJ and Ricey's opinions on Joshua v Fury in 2018? Will it happen?

 

[GBJ]

It's been quiet here! would like to hear GBJ and Ricey's opinions on Joshua v Fury in 2018? Will it happen?

Doesn't seem a lot of interest in boxing talk lately, so I've stepped away.

Who knows with Joshua-Fury. I think it will happen eventually, but next year is too soon for Fury IMO. He's been out of the game for too long now, and would need at least 3-4 warm-up fights, before facing Joshua. His lifestyle hasn't been clean, he hasn't stayed sharp in the gym, he's just been living the good life. You can't climb off of the couch & jump into the ring against a dangerous opponent like Joshua.

On top of that, is the weight factor. He's been walking around at close to 30-stone, which is ridiculous. He needs to be around the 18-stone mark, which is his optimal fighting weight, IMO.

And what the fight really come down to, is if Fury actually still has the fire inside him. If he's looking to fight Joshua for the payday, I'd rather he stayed retired. No fighter on this planet is currently able to climb off of the couch after 2 years of inactivity, shed 10-stone, and jump into the ring & fight competitively against Joshua. No one at all.

Personally, I'd book Tyson's path like this;

March 2018: 6-rounder, against a domestic opponent

May 2018: 10-rounder against a European opponent

Sept/Oct 2018: 12-rounder against a fringe World level fighter (Dillian Whyte would make a decent domestic event)

March 2019: 12-rounder against a live opponent (someone like Joe Parker would be ideal, although Pulev or Povetkin would be more likely)

late summer 2019: Face the winner of the Joshua/Wilder fight

 

[Ricey]

It's been quiet here! would like to hear GBJ and Ricey's opinions on Joshua v Fury in 2018? Will it happen?

I'm away in the Falklands so my internet access is very limited. My access to live boxing events on TV on the other hand is exceptional and with the time difference it's a lot easier for me. I haven't missed a fight since getting out here on the 24th of August. Even the fights like Butler v Hall, its keeping me entertained and something I don't always get the time for at home.

GGG v Canelo, what a fight ruined by the shocking scoring of 118-110, if she had have scored that something closer then you could forgive the result. People are more annoyed about it because of such a wide decision. I personally had GGG winning by 2 rounds. But I would not have been surprised before they read the results if it was called a draw. It makes a second fight more exciting and hopefully it happens after I get back from this **** hole because i'm going to try and go.

As for Joshua, if the Tyson Fury of 2015 comes back then I would love to see that fight in a flash as that would be a really good watch. And for me that Fury wins like he did against Klitschko, he wins inside and outside of the ring. I totally agree with GBJ on his comeback path, but unfortunately I cannot see Fury wanting to go down that path I just hope Peter or whoever is guiding him when he decides to come back directs him in the right way.

All this Sky Sports ******** to sell their man saying the heavyweight division is rife with talent grips me. Joshua is the best the division has to offer and the rest would be average journeymen in an era rife with heavyweight greats. Wilder hasn't really proved himself and doesn't get that chance too because of Ortiz failing yet another drugs test. Parker isn't all that and Hughie just wasn't quite ready to take on someone like Parker. Haye is passed it, Bellew isn't a heavyweight. Whyte is average at best, he is European level along with Chisora. Daniel Dubois is young and could be a decent fighter but we won't know until he is actually tested. It's a poor division and Joshua is made to look greater by the poorness of the division as a whole. If Ortiz and Povetkin stopped jabbing themselves maybe it would be a little more exciting. Unfortunately Klitschko's retirement weakened the division and the only exciting thing that could happen is the return of the 2015 Fury, which unfortunately I cannot see happening.

 

[Ricky Otto]

Doesn't seem a lot of interest in boxing talk lately, so I've stepped away.

Who knows with Joshua-Fury. I think it will happen eventually, but next year is too soon for Fury IMO. He's been out of the game for too long now, and would need at least 3-4 warm-up fights, before facing Joshua. His lifestyle hasn't been clean, he hasn't stayed sharp in the gym, he's just been living the good life. You can't climb off of the couch & jump into the ring against a dangerous opponent like Joshua.

On top of that, is the weight factor. He's been walking around at close to 30-stone, which is ridiculous. He needs to be around the 18-stone mark, which is his optimal fighting weight, IMO.

And what the fight really come down to, is if Fury actually still has the fire inside him. If he's looking to fight Joshua for the payday, I'd rather he stayed retired. No fighter on this planet is currently able to climb off of the couch after 2 years of inactivity, shed 10-stone, and jump into the ring & fight competitively against Joshua. No one at all.

Personally, I'd book Tyson's path like this;

March 2018: 6-rounder, against a domestic opponent

May 2018: 10-rounder against a European opponent

Sept/Oct 2018: 12-rounder against a fringe World level fighter (Dillian Whyte would make a decent domestic event)

March 2019: 12-rounder against a live opponent (someone like Joe Parker would be ideal, although Pulev or Povetkin would be more likely)

late summer 2019: Face the winner of the Joshua/Wilder fight

I always read this thread but don't often comment, basically because I'm a fairweather fan and don't have much to add in most cases. I enjoy reading what you and Ricey have to say though.

Re Joshua v Fury, do you think Fury has the discipline for such a long game plan? Given his irratic character, I can see Fury taking the fight early for the pay day. He is obviously a guy who struggles to stay in shape, think he'll want to get it done asap and then give himself a rest. Think either you or Ricey compared Fury to Hatton before in the way they aren't disciplined at all when resting up.

 

[Ricky Otto]

I'm away in the Falklands so my internet access is very limited. My access to live boxing events on TV on the other hand is exceptional and with the time difference it's a lot easier for me. I haven't missed a fight since getting out here on the 24th of August. Even the fights like Butler v Hall, its keeping me entertained and something I don't always get the time for at home.

GGG v Canelo, what a fight ruined by the shocking scoring of 118-110, if she had have scored that something closer then you could forgive the result. People are more annoyed about it because of such a wide decision. I personally had GGG winning by 2 rounds. But I would not have been surprised before they read the results if it was called a draw. It makes a second fight more exciting and hopefully it happens after I get back from this **** hole because i'm going to try and go.

As for Joshua, if the Tyson Fury of 2015 comes back then I would love to see that fight in a flash as that would be a really good watch. And for me that Fury wins like he did against Klitschko, he wins inside and outside of the ring. I totally agree with GBJ on his comeback path, but unfortunately I cannot see Fury wanting to go down that path I just hope Peter or whoever is guiding him when he decides to come back directs him in the right way.

All this Sky Sports ******** to sell their man saying the heavyweight division is rife with talent grips me. Joshua is the best the division has to offer and the rest would be average journeymen in an era rife with heavyweight greats. Wilder hasn't really proved himself and doesn't get that chance too because of Ortiz failing yet another drugs test. Parker isn't all that and Hughie just wasn't quite ready to take on someone like Parker. Haye is passed it, Bellew isn't a heavyweight. Whyte is average at best, he is European level along with Chisora. Daniel Dubois is young and could be a decent fighter but we won't know until he is actually tested. It's a poor division and Joshua is made to look greater by the poorness of the division as a whole. If Ortiz and Povetkin stopped jabbing themselves maybe it would be a little more exciting. Unfortunately Klitschko's retirement weakened the division and the only exciting thing that could happen is the return of the 2015 Fury, which unfortunately I cannot see happening.

It's a pretty good excuse :winking:

I watched the GGG v Canelo a few days after the event on youtube. I thought GGG had done enough. Do you think Eubank Jnr will do anything in the division, he looked good in his last fight but I get the impression he's not fighting anyone of any great quality.

Joshua can only beat what's in front of him I guess, you saw in the Klitchsko fight that he was very nearly beaten by a guy at the tail of his career and would have surely lost against the guy in his prime. You can also say that it was Joshua's first big test so he's not going to be the finished product yet. I think Joshua has the potential to be a great, it would be disappointing if the division doesn't throw up some decent contenders soon though. I agree Fury holds the key but I don't think we'll ever see the Fury that beat Klitchsko again.

 

[The Big Dady]

Anthony Joshua stops brave Carlos Takam in 10th round.

So should the ref have stopped it when he did?

 

[Pubey]

I'd rather an early stoppage than a late one. Takam wasn't competitive at that moment, and had absorbed a lot of punishment. Appreciate it's not popular and that a loss rather than KO is important, but we need to be able to end fights before a life changing injury occurs

 

[Ricey]

Well what to say... Another over the top boxing production with not a lot on show until the main event. Kal Yafai isn't ever going to excite the masses but got a win. Frank Buglioni won his British title outright against a short notice opponent change and didn't look all the convincing. Claims he turned down a fight with Kovalev just to win the British title outright and off that display I now understand why! He's average at best and when he eventually fight Anthony Yarde he will get knocked out.

Dillian Whyte fight was a real bore even for a boxing purist! Helenius offered nothing after the 3rd and didn't look like he had anything left in him after an impressive start. Once Whyte decided to turn up he kept barraging Helenius with punches but Helenius's tactics were poor and fighting off the back foot and ropes was never going to win him the fight. Whyte proved that he doesn't have that knock out power against someone who has a chin. Like against Chisora he isn't able to end a fight against a half decent opponent. Stick him in with Parker or Wilder and he will lose.. He's not ever going to be a world level fighter but unfortunately under Hearn he will just keep getting managing to get these fights. After the displays from today I'd like to see Whyte in with Takam, Takam is like a better version of Chisora and will come out victorious against Whyte.

To the main event, the usual over the top ********! Not quite as embarrassing as the raising platform at Wembley but understandable then as it was a truly big fight. This one originally looked a half decent fight against Pulev but when he pulled out and was replaced with Takam which was a massive disappointment at first and I didn't see this lasting more than 3 rounds.

On Joshua's training he will have been preparing for the 6ft 7 Pulev and then to change your plan with 12 days until the fight is hard especially as Takam is a smaller man coming in at 6ft 1. Joshua weighed in at his heaviest of his career, question is has he not bothered to drop the weight due to him not taking the fight as seriously with the opponent change or is this his growth and where he will settle at for fight nights.

They started off very slow and it was a sighting round for Joshua in the 1st trying to judge what to expect from Takam and then came the headbutt to the nose in the 2nd. This rocked Joshua and looked like it troubled him at first you could see straight away it was a broken nose. Which in the 2nd round of a fight is not ideal even if you're Anthony Joshua, fair play to him though he soldiered through it but it wasn't easy. He unloaded shot after shot on Takam and he could've nearly had him in the 4th with the knock down but no matter what Joshua through nothing really seemed to phase Takam. A real chin of steel and an impressive warrior like attitude. The cut opened on his right and was pretty nasty but nothing that was really worth stopping the fight over. It was a standard cut above the eye with very little swelling. Another opened up on his left but still it didn't stop Takam. It was an impressive display from both fighters not on boxing terms but on a warrior level that they both battled through their injuries to get to that point and both didn't want to give in.

Was any of Takam's shots really troubling Joshua? No. Was Takam going to win? No. Do I personally think the ref was right to stop it then? No. Do I think Joshua would've knocked him out before for the final bell of the 12th had the ref not stopped it? No.

Joshua looked a little off his game and didn't look as deadly as usual. Maybe that is down to Takam's concrete chin or he really was struggling after his nose was broken.

So Hearn's prodigal son continues on his journey. What happens next? Well everyone wants to see the Wilder fight who has managed to dodge a bullet with Ortiz failing the drugs test and having to fight Stiverne next weekend who he has already beaten once before. Will the WBA or IBF throw another mandatory in the mix? No doubt but it's Joshua and Hearn so they will manage to slip them for a big money fight.

Hearn is planning 3 fights with Joshua in 2018. For me it has to be Wilder and Parker for the belts and then a mandatory in the mix. They want Tyson Fury, well I can tell you now with 100% confidence that he will not fight Fury in 2018, Tyson will not be fit and ready for that in time. Even the end of 2018 would be a push. If Fury gets his act together and really knuckles down April 2019 would be a reachable target.

This division is poor and no one will really challenge Joshua unless Fury comes out of retirement and gets back to his 2015 self which is a big ask.

Speaking of the division not only is Wilder fighting Stiverne next weekend on the same card former foes of Joshua come up against each other with Dominic Breazeale fighting Eric Molina. I'll be watching just to see how Wilder gets on and to see if Molina rolls over like he did against Joshua.

There is still one huge fight left this year and one more for the purist and that's Rigo v Loma on the 9th of December. A great fight and one to boost the winner up those p4p rankings.

 

[GBJ]

Few thoughts;

- Ridiculous stoppage. He was still moving forward, throwing punches. The final three punches thrown at Takam, didn't even land, they were caught or slipped. He may not have gone on to win, but that's not the point. He was in a Heavyweight Title Fight, wasn't taking an immense amount of punishment & still had over 6 minutes of fighting time left, in which anything could happen. It's like stopping a football match after 80 minutes, because the home side is 2-0 up, and it's unlikely the opposition will get anything from the game. Farcial & dare I say, corruption.

- Very obvious that for all his muscles, AJ doesn't like taking bodyshots.

- Adam Smith & Hearn must have been sweating bullets, when they realised that Takam wasn't going over in the 3rd or 4th rounds.

- The true lineal champion, the Tyson Fury of 2015, dances rings around current Joshua. It's just a shame that his career & legacy has been destroyed by the BBBoC, aswell as himself

 

[buffalowolf]

Is this the same Hearn who runs the PDC darts organisation .?

 

[Ricky Otto]

I only saw the main event and it was an odd one. Takam reminded me of two people, firstly Homer Simpson in that episode of the Simpson where he just took punches with no effect and ended up exhausting his opponents and winning the world championship. Secondly, style wise, he looked like Joe Frazier moving around the ring. I think it was hard not to be impressed with how hard this guy was!
Joshua clearly won every round but there was no way he was going to knock Takam out and the stoppage was disappointing, Takam never looked shook or unsteady from any of the shots that landed. Think it was a decision for Joshua to keep his 100% KO record.

 

[GBJ]

Is this the same Hearn who runs the PDC darts organisation .?

Barry Hearn runs the darts. The same Barry Hearn who used to own Leyton Orient. Eddie Hearn, who owns Matchroom Boxing, (the Hearn we're referring to) is his son & is a real chip off the old block

 

[GBJ]

Joshua clearly won every round but there was no way he was going to knock Takam out and the stoppage was disappointing, Takam never looked shook or unsteady from any of the shots that landed. Think it was a decision for Joshua to keep his 100% KO record.

Agree with this completely.

It's much better marketability to advertise a 100% knockout ratio, than a 95% KO ratio. Especially if you're trying to sell your brand in America, which of course ties in perfectly with Hearns recent deal with Showtime Sports.......... In America

 

[Ricey]

It seems the words of Joshua have woken the beast and Fury has come out and said he wants the fight and is serious about a comeback! How many times have we heard that from him in the past year, i'll believe it when I see it but I am hoping and praying he comes back and as the great champion he was.

 

[GBJ]

It seems the words of Joshua have woken the beast and Fury has come out and said he wants the fight and is serious about a comeback! How many times have we heard that from him in the past year, i'll believe it when I see it but I am hoping and praying he comes back and as the great champion he was.

Tyson's got a lot of demons. I'm sure it was publicly announced that he suffers from bi-polar & struggles with manic mood swings.

From a Boxing perspective, I think a major stumbling block has been the BBBoC revoking his license, on what can only be very spurious grounds. Not sure about the legal side of it, but I'm amazed that an active fighter can have his license pulled, without being found guilty of anything. To the best of my knowledge, the PED's accusations were never founded & no sentencing/sanctions/punishments were ever handed out to Fury. Hence my feeling that the whole thing had a genuinely spurious & deliberate feel to it. It's no secret that he wasn't (and still isn't) in a friendly place with Robert Smith, head of the BBBoC. Make of that what you will, but to my recollection, no other fighter has ever been treated the same.

Add to that, being stripped of his belts, specifically the IBF, (which was nothing short of a screwjob) and you've got a real powderkeg of emotions, which would be difficult for a so-called normal mind, never mind someone who is mentally unstable at the best of times.

But let's try & look upon this latest news in a positive light, or at least as positive as possible.

He's only 29-years-old. In Boxing terms, he's still a relative youngster, who should be just coming into their peak. He could potentially have another 6 years of fighting as a professional, if he wanted. Next point, Tyson has said he's currently around the 25-stone mark, which puts him 6-7 stone overweight. Although that isn't good, it's not irreversible. For someone of his build, the weight (fat) will strip off him with 6 months of hard cardio & clean living.

I perosnally think his mind is the biggest donwfall. It has been scrambled over the last 2 years, the fight game simply hasn't been good to him, and he's not really achieved what he deserved. Even being crowned the undisputed lineal heavyweight champion of the world, didn't earn him the plaudits that he expected, with people far more interested in his religious beliefs.

Being honest, I would prefer him to focus on a 2019 showdown with AJ, and spend the next 18 months getting himself back to 18 stone, and ring sharp, whilst facing at least 4 opponents (I wrote what I think to be a fairly sound gameplan for him, a few pages back) I think a 2018 fight with AJ, is far too soon, and will result in him receiving his first professional loss, and probably the end of his career.

It's a choice between... Face AJ in 2018, probably lose, & probably retire, although will earn upwards of £15m. OR, wait 18-months & get back to his best, face AJ, still get paid upwards of £15m, probably win, probably go on to more stadium fights, more unification fights, and even more money.

 

[GBJ]

More strange things coming to light about the whole Tyson Fury situation....

UKAD (UK Anti-Doping) origionally claimed Tyson had failed drug tests. It was the reason for the BBBoC indefinitely suspending his licence, until the matter had been cleared up. That's the story we were told.

Today, a claim has emerged, that UKAD still can't, and possibly couldn't ever actually prove Tyson had done anything wrong. The claim is that they are now scared to "clear" Tyson's name, as it could result in him suing them for loss of earnings, with the figure bandied about being £15m, (based on £5m per fight, & missing 3 fights over the past 2 years) and UKAD only get £8m per year funding. If the legal action were successful in Fury's favour, UKAD would need a government bailout & a new pair of pants.

So, could there truly be something fishy going on here? lets examine the facts; this has dragged on for 2 years. Tyson to this day has not been found guilty of anything, he hasn't been punished or sentenced. There hasn't been any hearings. He's simply been accused of guilt & left in the dark.

Could your boss at work suspend you indefinitely, without any explanation, proof or due process?

Has this situation ever occurred, with any other athlete in UKAD history?

Could you honestly imagine this happening to AJ?

For all the good stuff the UKAD agency do, they certainly haven't shone here, & I suspect this won't be the last we've heard on this case.

 

[Ricky Otto]

More strange things coming to light about the whole Tyson Fury situation....

UKAD (UK Anti-Doping) origionally claimed Tyson had failed drug tests. It was the reason for the BBBoC indefinitely suspending his licence, until the matter had been cleared up. That's the story we were told.

Today, a claim has emerged, that UKAD still can't, and possibly couldn't ever actually prove Tyson had done anything wrong. The claim is that they are now scared to "clear" Tyson's name, as it could result in him suing them for loss of earnings, with the figure bandied about being £15m, (based on £5m per fight, & missing 3 fights over the past 2 years) and UKAD only get £8m per year funding. If the legal action were successful in Fury's favour, UKAD would need a government bailout & a new pair of pants.

So, could there truly be something fishy going on here? lets examine the facts; this has dragged on for 2 years. Tyson to this day has not been found guilty of anything, he hasn't been punished or sentenced. There hasn't been any hearings. He's simply been accused of guilt & left in the dark.

Could your boss at work suspend you indefinitely, without any explanation, proof or due process?

Has this situation ever occurred, with any other athlete in UKAD history?

Could you honestly imagine this happening to AJ?

For all the good stuff the UKAD agency do, they certainly haven't shone here, & I suspect this won't be the last we've heard on this case.

It'll be interesting to see how the saga unfolds