Freddy Poor With JCR

[OiRef]

Whilst recognising that JCR is entertaining and works extremely hard on the pitch there simply is no end product. IMHO this is effecting Freddy and the other forwards who never know when to make a move or to stay put. Again in my opinion Freddy has rarely played well when JCR is in the team. Pity that Cole is finding it hard to get in the team as he does get a cross in !

 

[canveyshrimper]

Quote[/b] (OiRef @ Sep. 11 2006,13:10)]Whilst recognising that JCR is entertaining and works extremely hard on the pitch there simply is no end product. IMHO this is effecting Freddy and the other forwards who never know when to make a move or to stay put. Again in my opinion Freddy has rarely played well when JCR is in the team. Pity that Cole is finding it hard to get in the team as he does get a cross in !

IMO on Saturday JCR was excellent and his "end product" was greatly improved. I remember 3 or 4 crosses coming in that nobody could get on the end of. Also bear in mind it is not all about crosses but short passes and through balls count equally as well as "end product", and there were a good number of them as well.

 

[hexagon_sun]

Quote[/b] (OiRef @ Sep. 11 2006,13:10)]Pity that Cole is finding it hard to get in the team as he does get a cross in !

I agree, it's a real shame that Mitchell isn't getting a look in. On Saturday I was thinking back to the those few games towards the end of last season when Tilly was bringing him on with 10-15 minutes left to play and he was totally turning games around, instantly creating chances and using his pace to maximum effect against tired legs. I reckon it's got to be worth giving him a run out in games that we're still chasing into the second half. Maybe he won't be as effective at this level but unless he plays we'll never know.

 

[Angell Delight]

Quote[/b] (OiRef @ Sep. 11 2006,13:10)]Whilst recognising that JCR is entertaining and works extremely hard on the pitch there simply is no end product.

It's what I've been saying for weeks (and a couple of other posters were saying it from this time last year!). I wasn't at the game Saturday so I can't comment on whether his end product was any better (or to be more accurate he actually put crosses into the box at all!!) but I do feel the reason for Freddy's subdued performances lie elsewhere despite the fact JCR's unpredictability doesn't help. Freddy is being well-marshalled by much better defences this season and may still be suffering with his breathing. Also his battle with the council can't be helping his state of mind however IMHO the biggest reason is he doesn't have a decent strike partner alongside him this season unlike last season when the Goat complemented him well. Bradders did extremely well in the first couple of games in the targetman role and that helped Freddy a lot, since he's beein injured and Paynter's come in the change has been noticeable.

It's for this reason we need to get an experienced targetman like Dublin/Shipperley in while Ricketts is out.

 

[Hong Kong Blue]

I agree. I think JCR despite his pace slows down our game by not releasing the ball early enough. He might beat his man, but by the time he has done so the rest of the defence has got back into position. Early crosses and early passes are generally more effective as it gives the defence less time to organise itself.

The other area I think the team is currently lacking in, is movement. Paynter is good, but the others are too static. When he (and as a result the team) was playing well last season Guttridge was getting ahead of the ball. When he does this he has to be picked up, drawing a defender away from Freddy. JCR offers little to the team in terms of off the ball movement. When he is on the ball there is little incentive in moving as you never know how many times he is going to try and beat his man.

JCR is clearly an outrageously talented player, but we need to work out how to harness his talent. At the moment is offering very little attacking threat despite having so much possession.

 

[sufcintheprem]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ Sep. 11 2006,13:26)]I agree. I think JCR despite his pace slows down our game by not releasing the ball early enough. He might beat his man, but by the time he has done so the rest of the defence has got back into position. Early crosses and early passes are generally more effective as it gives the defence less time to organise itself.

That's a very accurate relfection really. Then again, I think part of the problem is Gutts being off form. The number of times JCR gets in to good positions but doesn't get the ball early enough is surprising considering the ball playing ability of the other three midfield players.

Annoyingly when Gower did start hitting him earlier, he struggled to do too much with it. Frustratingly, the time he absolutely skinned his man, he took a heavy touch when a cut back would likely have been a certain goal for Guttridge (I think).

On the positive side, his defensive work was outstanding and even when he's not playing as well as he might, he always wants the ball.

 

[DTS]

Personally I think if Freddy is as good as we think he is then he should be able to adapt to whoever he plays with.

I wonder if his much documented problems with his living accomadation and that along with a step up in terms of football has made it tough going.

I still think any of us would have been happy with 4 goals from him at this stage of the season all be it two in the cup.

JCR for my mind is a good player and works relentlessly for the team. I think his end product has been weak but this has improved. I also seem to recall Palace, QPR and Leicester fans all raving about him so he must scare the oppostion.

This season is all about consoldation and 7 points at this stage tells me were not doing too much wrong.

Cole is an enigma. One minute not bad and the next crap. With all due repsects he didnt even manage to force his way into the team last season when JCR was in limbo so I cant any reason to start him ahead of JCR.

I would also say any critism of JCR's end product could also be move than levelled at Coley too.....

I think Coley would beneift from a loan at a local club to get some match practice and some confidence to go with the potential that he undoubtably has.

DtS

 

[Shrimper2thecore]

Quote[/b] (hexagon_sun @ Sep. 11 2006,13:20)]

Quote[/b] (OiRef @ Sep. 11 2006,13:10)]Pity that Cole is finding it hard to get in the team as he does get a cross in !

I agree, it's a real shame that Mitchell isn't getting a look in. On Saturday I was thinking back to the those few games towards the end of last season when Tilly was bringing him on with 10-15 minutes left to play and he was totally turning games around, instantly creating chances and using his pace to maximum effect against tired legs. I reckon it's got to be worth giving him a run out in games that we're still chasing into the second half. Maybe he won't be as effective at this level but unless he plays we'll never know.

I also agree with that

 

[sufcintheprem]

Just read the PA report on our game on soccernet and they're complimentary of JCR there too.

Oddly though, no mention of Fred's one on one.

 

[Prodigal Son]

Quote[/b] (OiRef @ Sep. 11 2006,13:10)]Whilst recognising that JCR is entertaining and works extremely hard on the pitch there simply is no end product. IMHO this is effecting Freddy and the other forwards who never know when to make a move or to stay put. Again in my opinion Freddy has rarely played well when JCR is in the team. Pity that Cole is finding it hard to get in the team as he does get a cross in !

Can someone explain to me how JCR got the Trust player of the month? How do you cast a vote?

I have found him frustrating to watch but even if I was a big fan he would not have got my vote.

Also, quite a bit of Freddy bashing was starting to emerge on Saturday, very disappointing.

 

[Andy_S]

Talk about finding scapegoats!

Freddy playing poorly has zilch to do with JCR being in the team. Jamal is now a very important member of the team like it or not. He's also the hardest working player we have.

A sensible reason as to Freddy being on and off to suggest is due to the fact he has no idea about the player he is playing alongside. First of all he had to get used to Bradbury and now he's got Paynter. They clearly have no understanding yet and Tilly's "get closer" shouts to them on Saturday sums it up. Doesn't help either that we don't have a clear first choice alongside him.


This JCR no end product crap gets my goat as well. With the amount of effort he puts in and with the amount of the ball he gets he can hardly be expected to lay on chance after chance everytime he gets down the wing, of course he's going to mess the odd one up. Plus, how many times do we load the box with players? There were several times on Saturday where he flew forward only having to hold it up as there was no support and if there is support they seem to generally go together. Gutts needs to sort it out and get into the box more and Paynter needs to be in there as well as we know Freddy will hang back.

 

[Angell Delight]

Quote[/b] (Andy_S @ Sep. 11 2006,18:49)](1) Freddy playing poorly has zilch to do with JCR being in the team.

(2) Jamal is now a very important member of the team like it or not. (3) He's also the hardest working player we have.

(4) This JCR no end product crap gets my goat as well. With the amount of effort he puts in and with the amount of the ball he gets he can hardly be expected to lay on chance after chance everytime he gets down the wing, of course he's going to mess the odd one up.

(1) Agree.

(2) Disagree - he COULD be but at the moment no way is this an accurate statement.

(3) Along with Barrett yes I agree.

(4) Couldn't disagree more - you say of course he's going to mess the odd one up, no-one would have a problem with that if he actually PUT BALLS INTO THE BOX on a regular basis! Yes he sees a lot of the ball but it is for this very reason that a lot of our attacks which look promising eventually fizzle out. It's a fact that 95% of the time he gets the ball in a wide area there is no cross forthcoming and that must be so frustrating as a forward. JCR is potentially one of the best players we've had in many years bar Freddy but he's not doing his job as a winger - personally I'd rather see Bradders out wide when he's back fit (won't happen though).

 

[sufcintheprem]

He must be a very important member of the team judging by the number of times the rest of the midfield get the ball out to him compared to everyone else. Whether you rate his play or not is irrelevant, he is either the most or the second most important attacking outlet in Tillys tactics.

 

[Blue Streak]

Totally agree with you Andy_s.
The group I sit with have been asking it for weeks. Could it just be a case of JCR being too quick for the front two and having to check back and wait for them to get in position ? There have been a number of instances where he has got the early cross in (I remember a couple at Leicester for example), only for the ball to shoot across the area or be easily cleared. Then his critics scream "who was that to?".
Freddy doesnt seem fit to me if I'm honest. I think there's more to this breathing issue, even if its now partly psychological. Its as if he's had a scare.
Didnt hear Tilly shouting "get closer" on Saturday but we were shouting it ourselves. Billy was winning the knockdown but Freddy was 15 yards away each time. Anyone remember when paynter got to the line and pulled the ball back into space just outside the 6 yd box ? A strikers dream but no one there. Che would have loved to have been on the end of that one. Paynter IMO isnt enormously different from Bradbury really, so I dont really understand the "getting to know each other" argument fully. Dont get me wrong. This isnt a blatant dig at Freddy, as we all know that he can turn up for 1 minute in 90 and turn the game, but its unfair to isolate JCR as the scapegoat. There's a number of factors. But I think it will click soon.

 

[Angell Delight]

Quote[/b] (sufcintheprem @ Sep. 11 2006,19:15)]Whether you rate his play or not is irrelevant, he is either the most or the second most important attacking outlet in Tillys tactics.

You'll get no argument from me on that, Tilly clearly rates him as one of our 2 most important attacking outlets but why is this so much of a surprise? He's a winger!!!!

Once again I think you'll find everyone is split down the middle on this one, there will be posters who agree with you on JCR - however there are definitely also people who see exactly what I see too, I'm not alone in frustration.

 

[sufcintheprem]

Quote[/b] (Angell Delight @ Sep. 11 2006,19:57)]

Quote[/b] (sufcintheprem @ Sep. 11 2006,19:15)]Whether you rate his play or not is irrelevant, he is either the most or the second most important attacking outlet in Tillys tactics.

You'll get no argument from me on that, Tilly clearly rates him as one of our 2 most important attacking outlets but why is this so much of a surprise? He's a winger!!!!

Once again I think you'll find everyone is split down the middle on this one, there will be posters who agree with you on JCR - however there are definitely also people who see exactly what I see too, I'm not alone in frustration.

Definitely, a large part of me thought it wasn't even worth posting that.

 

[Hong Kong Blue]

Quote[/b] (Blue Streak @ Sep. 11 2006,19:29)]Paynter IMO isnt enormously different from Bradbury really, so I dont really understand the "getting to know each other" argument fully.

Paynter's movement is very different to Bradbury's. Paynter is much more mobile.

Paynter also needs to get use to Freddy's movement (and at times lack of movement). Freddy can often seem disinterest and behind play, but he also scores a hell of a lot of goals from that position.

 

[Kris]

From memory, JCR put in four crosses on Saturday, two of which were quality and one of which Freddy should have buried - I don't know what happened as it seemed to be a free header but it appeared to skim off his head and into his marker.

Freddy's form has nothing to do with JCR, in my opinion. Like I've mentioned elsewhere, he's lost a yard of pace for some reason. Whereas in pre-season and in the opening couple of games he was ghosting past players, now he's taking them on but they are able to get tackles in because he can't accelerate to his normal level. Look at the one chance he had against Sheff Wed - normally he would have burst clear of the defence and been able to take it on his right foot but he didn't have the initial burst of speed, which forced him into shooting with his left from a tighter angle.

Something clearly isn't quite right and my guess is that he's still struggling with his breathing in hot temperatures. Look at the speed he showed to score the third goal at Bournemouth in cooler evening temperatures and contrast that with the rather off-colour and lethargic showings of recent Saturdays. I certainly don't think it's a lack of effort.

Ultimately, I guess if my theory has any credibility then we'll be in for a treat tomorrow night.

 

[* ORM *]

I think you've all missed the obvious solution. Let's drop Freddy and start with a forward that understands the game.

How anyone can bash JCR on Saturday's performance baffles me.

 

[Angell Delight]

I think you've all missed the obvious solution. Let's drop Freddy and start with a forward that understands the game.

 

 

And what would you suggest - playing Paynter and Harrold together up front?!!!!!!!!!!

 

Without doubt that would be the WORST strike-pairing in the Championship!!!