End of the Union?

[Neil_F]

Does a majority for the SNP mean the end on the Union?

 

[Firestorm]

Delia endorsement of these was the final nail some years ago

 

[Napster]

There'll be a referendum. But I can't see independence happening in my lifetime.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Does a majority for the SNP mean the end on the Union?

I sincerely hope so. Even if we ignore the huge burden that the Celtic fringe places on the finances of England, I would welcome the break up of the artificial construct that is Britain purely on the grounds that the Scots, Welsh and Irish base their entire national identity on their hatred of the English. That's not a healthy recipe for nation building, and is only sustainable by the English constantly appeasing their red headed stepchildren to the north and west. Give them their independence, and build some very high walls.

 

[Firestorm]

Would the Scots want any of their Oil money back ?

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Would the Scots want any of their Oil money back ?

I would think that they've already spent it.

 

[Neil_F]

The last time it was suggested Salmond was claiming all the North Sea oil revenue (which would effectively replace all the money that flows from England to Scotland under the Barnett formula). An independent commission determined that 90% of the oil and gas reserves were in Scottish waters/contintal shelf.

The problem for Salmond is that he only has one shot at it; if he loses then it is over for decades. The majority of Scots favour continued membership of the Union (75% typically in polls) so he has to try to engineer a situation where it becomes about more than just independence. If he can pick a fight with Cameron over something so that Scotland loses out to England then he will have his moment.

The problem in a referendum is who will front the No campaign? It can't be a Coalition member and I wouldn't fancy Ed Miliband's chances. Gordon Brown? Who else is there?

Whether or not the Scottish Parliament have the necessary constituional powers to call a legally binding referendum is another factor, though that would only come into play if it passed.

My personal feeling is that there won't be a referendum because the price of failure is too high for Salmond. You never know what may happen though...

 

[Gt Yarmouth Shrimper]

Does a majority for the SNP mean the end on the Union?

The sooner the better for me

I sincerely hope so. Even if we ignore the huge burden that the Celtic fringe places on the finances of England, I would welcome the break up of the artificial construct that is Britain purely on the grounds that the Scots, Welsh and Irish base their entire national identity on their hatred of the English. That's not a healthy recipe for nation building, and is only sustainable by the English constantly appeasing their red headed stepchildren to the north and west. Give them their independence, and build some very high walls.

You said it in a nutshell for me RS

 

[Dick Bate's Protege]

When push comes to shove they wont have the cajones to break away. They've had two Prime Ministers in the last 15 years, what more do they want?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I would think that they've already spent it.

On deep fried mars bars? :winking:

 

[BILLERICAY BLUE]

Surely that is the main aim of the Scottish NATIONALIST party......:unsure:

 

[Napster]

On deep fried mars bars? :winking:

very nice they are too. deep fried kitkats are good too. Scotland is the only place that deepfries pizza; and a cheeseburger doesn't come in a bap, but it's a burger and cheese, deepfried,

 

[Thorpe Groyney]

Alex Salmond promised to push the referendum through during the last parliament, too, but it was never going to come about. It's purely a politicial promise, and nobody really expects it to be kept during the next term of government.

There's a possibility it may come about in 2014, coinciding with the Commonwealth Games coming to Glasgow and the anniversary of Bannockburn, but there would have to be a big change in the nation's mindset.

There is absolutely no appetite for any independence referendum at the moment, especially as the more canny of the Scots know that their free prescriptions and higher education is in part due to a helping hand from English taxpayers.

This situation obviously annoys a fair few English people as well, so for that reason alone the Scots will leave things as they are, and have a bit of a snigger about it too.

 

[southendkid]

I'd like it to happen, whether it actually will or not depends on whether the SNP think losing the perks they get from us is worth the independence

 

[Hotman]

SNP's manifesto is unsustainable. The freeze on rates has already had a knock on effect on LA's, who are charging higher rates for public services than in England. Glasgow has large proportion of public sector workers, subject to govt cuts. They are proposing local income taxes on high income earners, a few of whom I know are planning moving down here. It isn't going to be pretty.

 

[Lord Football]

I was up in Scotland last week, so got the Scottish Election Night programmes as opposed to the English one. From the rhetoric on the night and what has been reported since, its seems a referendum will happen. I gather the collapse in the Labour vote was mainly down to their opposition to a referendum.

There is a feeling in Scotland that they do not like being ruled by an essentially English Conservative Party. One of the reasons the SNP didn't go for a referendum in the last Scottish Government was because there was a Labout Government. The Scots aren't daft, if they can see a way out of the clutches of this Government, they'll take it.

A referendum does have implications for the rest of us. Forgetting any political differences we have, the Tories have always struggled in Scotland to get seats, whereas there are large tracts of Labour safes. So taking the Scottish seats out of Parliament, essentially means a massive electoral boost for Scotland.

As for the money, an independent Scotland would have control of the waters around its coast and would be in control of the ports where the oil comes in, so I don't think financially they'll be overly bothered. The impact on the rest us could be considerable if they decide to hike import duties etc.

 

[Crabby Shrimper]

I was up in Scotland last week, so got the Scottish Election Night programmes as opposed to the English one. From the rhetoric on the night and what has been reported since, its seems a referendum will happen. I gather the collapse in the Labour vote was mainly down to their opposition to a referendum.

There is a feeling in Scotland that they do not like being ruled by an essentially English Conservative Party. One of the reasons the SNP didn't go for a referendum in the last Scottish Government was because there was a Labout Government. The Scots aren't daft, if they can see a way out of the clutches of this Government, they'll take it.

A referendum does have implications for the rest of us. Forgetting any political differences we have, the Tories have always struggled in Scotland to get seats, whereas there are large tracts of Labour safes. So taking the Scottish seats out of Parliament, essentially means a massive electoral boost for Scotland.

As for the money, an independent Scotland would have control of the waters around its coast and would be in control of the ports where the oil comes in, so I don't think financially they'll be overly bothered. The impact on the rest us could be considerable if they decide to hike import duties etc.

Would they remain part of the European community though? If so I doubt they'd be able to do much regarding import duties.

 

[OldBlueLady]

I've believed in the Union for years, but the continued appeasing to Nationalists over the borders, in free this, that and the other makes me fume! I think I'd prefer to take our chances and have an English Parliament with English MPs, rather than a profligate amount of Scottish MPs devolving all kinds of stuff particularly north of the border. Open up the trade routes and let's compete with the Scots on a level playing field rather than on a heavily northerly tilted one.

 

[Lord Football]

It wouldn't be import duties, as they would be the exporter. It would be price they charge for the commodity.

As for EU entry, I suppose they would have to apply like everyone else. Whether that could be done in conjunction with their Independence Date, I dunno.

 

[Uncle Leo]

As for the money, an independent Scotland would have control of the waters around its coast and would be in control of the ports where the oil comes in, so I don't think financially they'll be overly bothered. The impact on the rest us could be considerable if they decide to hike import duties etc.

I saw this in The Times the other day, which puts a different spin (if it is the case) on how the oil might be divvied up. Doesn't change your point about the ports of course.

"...the division of the UK oil and gas fields would be decided on the UN Law of the Sea convention, which defines territorial waters as those within a line drawn at the angle of the border of two countries. That would place a significant amount of oil and gas in English waters."