Eagle or Spinner?

[Matt the Shrimp]

Wiggy stated, in another thread, that it was his/her belief that the general consensus of opinion was that it should have been Spencer Prior that got released in January, rather than Andy Edwards.

Wiggy would almost certainly argue his/her corner on the basis that most people (possibly including me) believed that the Eagle's personal performances may well have been better than Spinner's have been this season.

* * *

However, I'm not sure that wiggy's claim that this is a general consensus is correct. I think that out of Spinner and Eagle, we've kept hold of the right one.

In my favour, I put forward stats (admittedly, before the performances against Brentford & Chesterfield) which showed that we conceded 1.2 goals per game whilst Eagle was in defence, versus 0.6 goals per game whilst Spinner was in defence. I would argue that the defence as a whole - and Adam Barrett in particular - plays far better and looks more confident as a complete unit with Spinner there rather than Eagle, and the stats seem to back me up.

Add to that Spinner's huge influence in the dressing room (too big, some might argue?)... and I believe it all adds up to the conclusion that we held on to the right one.

* * * *

So... the poll is a simple one: should Spinner have gone in January instead of Eagle, or was it right to let Andy go to Grays and for us to hold on to Spencer?

I realise that there could be other choices (i.e. should have kept both, should have got rid of both), but I want to make this a simple poll:

Spinner or Eagle?

You decide.

 

[Einstein]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ Feb. 24 2006,10:36)]I want to make this a simple poll:

Did we have to read the essay first then?

(Spinner has taken a healthy lead....!)

 

[hexagon_sun]

Prior's experience and influence makes him invaluable - we kept the right man.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (Einstein @ Feb. 24 2006,10:55)]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ Feb. 24 2006,10:36)]I want to make this a simple poll:

Did we have to read the essay first then?

Yes!

I wanted it to be a fair poll, one which set out the arguments for and against each player.  After all, it was wiggy who made the claim about the general consensus yesterday, so I wanted to test that claim.

After all, wiggy will either want to rely on the poll as proving his/her point... or else I will want to rely on the poll just to remind wiggy of the error of his/her ways in stating his/her opinion as fact.

 

[Its Only A Game]

given a choice i would have gone for keeping Eagle. Last year i thought he would be released but when he got in the team this year i thought he was very impressive. Spinner always looks to me as if he's about to have an accident. I feel he gives the ball away cheaply far too often.

As far as i'm aware it was Eagle who actually asked to go on loan after Sodje came in, & Tilly being an alround good guy didn't want to stand in his way of 1st team football.

 

[Ljubljana Branch]

Spinner is over-rated. Those stats now mean nothing as we've conceded 2.5 in the last two games.

Spinner makes too many mistakes and personally I'd play Sodje and Barrett in the middle with Wilson left.

But Tilson's opinions can't be argued.

Jon

 

[MC BLUES]

Quote[/b] (Ljubljana Branch @ Feb. 24 2006,11:06)]Spinner is over-rated.  Those stats now mean nothing as we've conceded 2.5 in the last two games.  

Spinner makes too many mistakes and personally I'd play Sodje and Barrett in the middle with Wilson left.  

But Tilson's opinions can't be argued.

Jon

I agree, worse of all he will often be seen blaming the other players around him for his own mistakes.

In my opinion he is well past his best and I would have preferred us to have retained Edwards.

 

[MilkeySUFC]

Just a question for this simpleton who can't quite work out this simple poll.....are we voting for who we wanted to stay or who we wanted to go?

??

 

[Napster]

Quote[/b] (MilkeySUFC @ Feb. 24 2006,11:23)]Just a question for this simpleton who can't quite work out this simple poll.....are we voting for who we wanted to stay or who we wanted to go?

??

the clues in the sub-heading

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (Ljubljana Branch @ Feb. 24 2006,11:06)]Those stats now mean nothing as we've conceded 2.5 in the last two games.  

Whilst I don't want to intervene too greatly in this debate, if I don't answer that stat, it becomes a total distortion of the figures...

Spinner's record is now 11 goals conceded in 14 games - which is 0.8 goals per game (and not 2.5 goals per game!).

Eagle's record was 22 goals conceded in 19 games - which is 1.2 goals per game.

That is the only fair comparison to make - not how poorly our whole team has defended in the last two games!

 

[Einstein]

Quote[/b] (MC BLUES @ Feb. 24 2006,11:14)]I agree, worse of all he will often be seen blaming the other players around him for his own mistakes.

This thread is about Spinner and Eagle - not Maher!!

 

[wiggy]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ Feb. 24 2006,11:31)]

Quote[/b] (Ljubljana Branch @ Feb. 24 2006,11:06)]Those stats now mean nothing as we've conceded 2.5 in the last two games.  

Whilst I don't want to intervene too greatly in this debate, if I don't answer that stat, it becomes a total distortion of the figures...

Spinner's record is now 11 goals conceded in 14 games - which is 0.8 goals per game (and not  2.5 goals per game!).

Eagle's record was 22 goals conceded in 19 games - which is 1.2 goals per game.

That is the only fair comparison to make - not how poorly our whole team has defended in the last two games!

Stats mean bugger all, you can massage em all you like, if Bart was in goal when Eagle played, which he wasn't, then it wouldn't be a fair comparisson for goals conceded would it!

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (wiggy @ Feb. 24 2006,11:41)]Stats mean bugger all, you can massage em all you like, if Bart was in goal when Eagle played, which he wasn't, then it wouldn't be a fair comparisson for goals conceded would it!

Erm, but Bart wasn't, so your point is...?

And also, the very thing I'm doing is not  massaging the figures!!  It's actually a very fair and simple comparison, since Eagle & Spinner have not both started in the same line-up this season.

So why do you suggest I'm massaging the figures, then?

 

[Shrimp in a Kilt]

Quote[/b] (wiggy @ Feb. 24 2006,11:41)]Stats mean bugger all, you can massage em all you like, if Bart was in goal when Eagle played, which he wasn't, then it wouldn't be a fair comparisson for goals conceded would it!

So let's see if I have understood this. Hmmmm...

You can't compare them because the goalkeepers might have been different even though they weren't so because Bart was injured Matt the Shrimp has posted a completely unfair poll by misrepresenting the truth by telling the truth?

Well, as you put it like that wiggy, I'm sorry I doubted you and your (Fluffy and Enlightened) opinion.

 

[Einstein]

Quote[/b] (wiggy @ Feb. 24 2006,11:41)]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ Feb. 24 2006,11:31)]

Quote[/b] (Ljubljana Branch @ Feb. 24 2006,11:06)]Those stats now mean nothing as we've conceded 2.5 in the last two games.  

Whilst I don't want to intervene too greatly in this debate, if I don't answer that stat, it becomes a total distortion of the figures...

Spinner's record is now 11 goals conceded in 14 games - which is 0.8 goals per game (and not  2.5 goals per game!).

Eagle's record was 22 goals conceded in 19 games - which is 1.2 goals per game.

That is the only fair comparison to make - not how poorly our whole team has defended in the last two games!

Stats mean bugger all, you can massage em all you like, if Bart was in goal when Eagle played, which he wasn't, then it wouldn't be a fair comparisson for goals conceded would it!

So what is your side of the argument then?!

All we hear is 'Spinner is cr*p' - Not too much of a reasoned debate!

Your knowledge is obviously far superior to the messier's we currently have at the helm....

 

[Ljubljana Branch]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ Feb. 24 2006,11:31)]That is the only fair comparison to make - not how poorly our whole team has defended in the last two games!

To be fair, it was Spinner who was making the most mistakes on Saturday.

He seems to have an arrogance about his play which I don't like.

 

[Guest]

Would have liked to see both but Sodje is just a different class...

 

[wiggy]

Matt, you couldn't wait to congratulate Tilly on yet another brilliant decision to let Eagle go. Fact is he generally got better ratings week in week out from local reporters, including my own spot on contribution on here. These stats, do they take into account level of opposition they both played against etc? I still think that Edwards was a lot more reliable and steady than dynamic duo, Sodge and Prior whatever statman and robin think and believe Eagle was given a bad deal!

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (wiggy @ Feb. 24 2006,12:11)]1. Matt, you couldn't wait to congratulate Tilly on yet another brilliant decision to let Eagle go.

2. Fact is he generally got better ratings week in week out from local reporters

3. including my own spot on contribution on here.

4. These stats, do they take into account level of opposition they both played against etc?

5. I still think that Edwards was a lot more reliable and steady than dynamic duo, Sodge and Prior whatever statman and robin think

6. and believe Eagle was given a bad deal!

1. That's putting it extremely harshly. Do I think we should have a roster full of 34 year old slow central defenders generally? No. Do we need young blood? Yes. Is Spinner a long term solution? No. Is he the best solution for now? Yes, I think so. On that basis, I did think that Tilly's decision was, on balance, correct. Don't know where you got the phrase "brilliant decision" from, though - very odd.

2. If you'd bothered to read my opening post, you would have noticed that I agree with you that Eagle's personal performances were very good! Nice to know that you never actually listen to anything I say.

3. Why do you keep saying things like that? What sort of conclusions do you think people make about you based on that?

4. No. That would be hugely time-consuming, bearing in mind that you'd probably ignore it anyway (see point 2, above), since you would have to rate the opposition at the time you played them - e.g. when we played Col Ewe, they were doing pretty poorly in the league. However, the fact that one has played 19 games and the other has played 14 games would tend to suggest that they both played a large enough sample of sides of differing ability to make the comparison valid.

5. That's your belief. I believe the opposite. The point of this poll is to find out whether your belief is, as you claimed, a general consensus.

6. I may be inclined to agree with you - it was a tough way to treat a Blues legend. But that's Tilly's style, is it not?

Matt

 

[Hooly]

Quote[/b] (destination championship @ Feb. 24 2006,12:04)]Would have liked to see both but Sodje is just a different class...

Not according to our world leading expert on defending!

Quote[/b] (wiggy @ Feb. 23 2006,21:43)]Nice little dig Matt, however the general census of opinion is that we have kept on the worst one of the oldies Mr.Prior, and Sodge aint much better!

Whoever Sodge might be.

Oh sorry, I meant world leading expert on defending, striking, midfield play, club managment, chairmanship, property development and of course the worlds greatest expert on goalkeeping.  How could I forget that!