Does Jon Venables deserve execution?

[rigsby]

I've given mine. More investment.

You should be a politician dodging every question like a pro.What is your solution when you take the death penalty out of the argument?

How would you spend that investment ?

What amount would it take to stop Jon Venables or what ever he is called at the moment from driving past your or anyone else's children's school as we speak.

When Theodore Johnson murdered his 3rd wife how that was due to lack of funding?. In fact the cheaper option would be to lock him up for life after the first murder and two women would be still alive.

 

[londonblue]

Well much like Messi & Ronaldo signing for us in the transfer window, it's never going to happen is it.

You know that's how rumours start don't you?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Civilised countries don't have the death penalty.The argument for was lost a long time ago.Quite frankly I'd sooner let you and your fellow right-wingers argue the toss amongst yourselves rather than get involved.

As far as the punisnment v rehablitation debate is concerned,I'm broadly on the rehabilitation side of the argument as I spent about 18 months working as (an unqualified) social worker in two different residential settings,back in the day.

We are not just discussing the death penalty though are we.

With your experience what rehabilitation would you recommend for the killers of Debra Carne. Just to remind you one girl lured 17 year old Debra to a lonely place and two others beat her, stamped on her and then set alight whilst still alive.

As a social worker what advice would you give to Roger Carne, Debra's father......You might be surprised to know that after those cheeky little scamps had had their fun Roger had to quit the Fire Brigade.........Wonder why?

I should have said, I'm broadly in favour of rehabilitation (where possible) in my original post.

Based on the re-offending figures I posted, do you think the rehabilitation service is doing a good job?

See above reply.

 

[united we stand]

Before people harp on about the infaliability of DNA and some huge database with us all on it, pehaps they may like to read this: https://science.howstuffworks.com/why-dna-evidence-can-be-unreliable.htm

Also, identical twins have identical DNA. Which one is the murderer and which one are you going to execute, knowing that possibly you could have a completely innocent twin?

What’s your point? In both cases the police would not investigate the same way as they do today when they have DNA on file that matches the suspect

additionally DNA is significantly more reliable than eye witness testimony which can totally wrong, even if someone thinks they are telling the truth.

I am still to hear a case for not doing this, I would guess that in the long run it would even save money, not that that is the driving factor

 

[united we stand]

I have a friend who has 2 sets of DNA...

Interesting but not sure how it affects my point

 

[OldBlueLady]

additionally DNA is significantly more reliable than eye witness testimony which can totally wrong, even if someone thinks they are telling the truth.

:hilarious: As we know from reading match reports every week!!!

 

[londonblue]

Interesting but not sure how it affects my point

Which set of DNA will be on record, and which will be found at the scene? There's a fair chance they'll be different.

Moreover, one set of his DNA isn't his. He shares it with his stem cell donor which is some completely random stranger somewhere in the world. It could be his neighbour or it could be someone the other side of the world whose DNA won't be on record...

 

[united we stand]

Which set of DNA will be on record, and which will be found at the scene? There's a fair chance they'll be different.

Moreover, one set of his DNA isn't his. He shares it with his stem cell donor which is some completely random stranger somewhere in the world. It could be his neighbour or it could be someone the other side of the world whose DNA won't be on record...

Again you (and others) are missing the point. A DNA match doesn’t = a conviction•, it equals an investigation. This is exactly what happens today.

Still waiting to hear a downside if we used the black cab murderer example that others have used, he could have been caught after his first attack

 

[londonblue]

Again you (and others) are missing the point. A DNA match doesn’t = a conviction•, it equals an investigation. This is exactly what happens today.

Still waiting to hear a downside if we used the black cab murderer example that others have used, he could have been caught after his first attack

So you've actually just agreed with the article MK linked. DNA isn't infallible, and can only assist an investigation.

The problem, though is that Police who are under pressure to gain a conviction will overlook things like that and use what is on record, i.e. it must be him because the DNA matches, so now let's find other evidence to prove it.

That kind of thing happens all the time. It even happened in the John Grisham book The Innocent Man you mentioned. That may have all happened before DNA became so widely used, but the simple truth is the investigator believe he was guilty, and did everything he could to prove it even if it meant supressing and manipulating other evidence. If he had DNA as his starting point that would have been worse because there's no way they would even consider that two complete strangers might have the same DNA.

Again, it comes down to the human trait of finding evidence to support a conclusion rather than using all the evidence to arrive at a conclusion.

 

[rigsby]

Life and Death Row om BBC iplayer covers most of the topics on mentioned on this thread. Well worth a watch number 2 Punishment.....The jury have to decide if 18 year old Shaun Ford will face a death sentence. Covers how they select a jury for such a case and the dilemma facing ordinary jurors

For anyone who has an interest in this thread I would say make sure you watch the whole series.

 

[GBJ]

Venables plead guilty today, to the charge of possessing indecent images of children. He also had a paedophile manual.

He has been jailed for 40 months.

 

[GBJ]

After a quick search, the maximum custodial sentence for such crime is 10 years. Veneables has to do less than 3 & a half years.

For the second time.

 

[Firestorm]

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.u...Sexual-Offences-Definitive-Guideline-web5.pdf

Page 75 of the sentencing guidelines indicates maximum 5 years

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.u...or-Guilty-plea-Definitive-Guide_FINAL_WEB.pdf

Up to 1/3rd off for a guilty please . 2 thirds of 5 = 3 years 4 months.

 

[kaymac]

Enforced castration I suggest, doubt he'll ever change his evil ways. Anyone watch any of the (Bulger) programme on tv the other night? Found it distressing even after all these years.

 

[GBJ]

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.u...Sexual-Offences-Definitive-Guideline-web5.pdf

Page 75 of the sentencing guidelines indicates maximum 5 years

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.u...or-Guilty-plea-Definitive-Guide_FINAL_WEB.pdf

Up to 1/3rd off for a guilty please . 2 thirds of 5 = 3 years 4 months.

I misread it. 10 years is for possession with intent to supply. You're correct 5 years is the max term for possession.

However, possession of a "paedophile manual", carries a maximum sentence of 3-years, on its own.

 

[rigsby]

If we just locked these people up for life then no one would make money from crime. People like Venables are a gold mine....For a certain privileged few.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

If we just locked these people up for life then no one would make money from crime. People like Venables are a gold mine....For a certain privileged few.

I presume you mean for some members of the legal profession? :unsure:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofUZNynYXzM

 

[rigsby]

I presume you mean for some members of the legal profession? :unsure:

Not just them. Plenty of others that feed off the justice system. From Psychiatrists, parole boards etc, all the way to the directors of Group 4......Who out of that lot would want a system that works.

 

[GBJ]

If we just locked these people up for life then no one would make money from crime. People like Venables are a gold mine....For a certain privileged few.

You could well be right. I'm sure in 5-6 years time, we'll hear about him again, committing more vile & shocking crimes & this conversation will rise again.

 

[rigsby]

You could well be right. I'm sure in 5-6 years time, we'll hear about him again, committing more vile & shocking crimes & this conversation will rise again.

Think of the people involved since the day of his arrest, his trial, his couple of years in prison, even the early release procedure and then when he gets arrested next time.......It will run into the hundreds.