Did we ever really want to stay up?

[secondalibi]

Speaking to different people who know people within the SUFC set up, there feels like that there is something strange going on, but no-one can quite put their finger on it. Much was made at the beginning of the season that our wages had gone up by more than £1M and that it was a struggle balancing the books. There are now growing rumours that the powers that be at the club have never been overly dismayed at the idea of us being relegated, as it would cut the wage bill by a substantial amount. I cannot believe for 1 minute that we would ever want to be relegated, but to me something about our current situation is more than just a little bit odd. I cannot be alone in smelling a rat.

- G

 

[mattytheshrimper]

course we want to stay up. signings this season have cost us but why would anyone want to get relegated? lets be honest we are a small town in a very big league and we have upset a lot of people along the way beating some very very good teams (we all know who they are). not to say no one likes to lose but this seaon has not been all bad

 

[MK Shrimper]

I'd be careful, these are quite serious accusations.

Success would bring more revenue through bums on seats, merchandising, TV rights etc. Relegation could possibly slash our income by a substantial amount as a lot of fairweather fans (and kids) could go and support a Prem team or West Ham, especially if our one and only icon departs for pastures new.

I can't see the wage structure rising that dramatically. The reason we can't seem to sign many players is Ron Martin's pay structure that has given the club a sound financial standing.

 

[Slipperduke]

Nah, can't see that.

I spoke to Geoffrey King just after the first Colchester game and I hinted that perhaps relegation wouldn't kill us. Maybe we'd just gone up a little too quickly.

His response was very clear and direct, relegation was not an option and would not be seen as anything other than a grave step backwards. The club was moving forward on all fronts and needed to stay in the second flight. The new stadium, the shape of the club in general, everything would be aided by being in The Championship.

I know GK gets a lot of flak, but he's no fool and he's right on this.

 

[callan]

Why spend the money we did on players, if the management wanted to go down?

 

[Pubey]

Nah, can't see that.

I spoke to Geoffrey King just after the first Colchester game and I hinted that perhaps relegation wouldn't kill us. Maybe we'd just gone up a little too quickly.

His response was very clear and direct, relegation was not an option and would not be seen as anything other than a grave step backwards. The club was moving forward on all fronts and needed to stay in the second flight. The new stadium, the shape of the club in general, everything would be aided by being in The Championship.

I know GK gets a lot of flak, but he's no fool and he's right on this.

some sense!

 

[Interpol Shrimper]

Why spend the money we did on players, if the management wanted to go down?

Don't want to drag it all up again but some of that £1m wasn't spent very well! And I don't believe previous targets would not have come to Southend for what is rumoured to be being paid to Foran etc.!

 

[stickyboy]

Why spend the money we did on players, if the management wanted to go down?

Unfortunately we spent the money on the wrong players. Personally dont think we have done nowhere near enough to try and stay in this league, we have been short of players all season but through transfer windows have hardly signed a soul when we were in desperate need especially of a striker. To play with only 1 striker all season virtually consigned us to relegation before we started

 

[callan]

Don't want to drag it all up again but some of that £1m wasn't spent very well! And I don't believe previous targets would not have come to Southend for what is rumoured to be being paid to Foran etc.!

Possibly not but why spend it?

 

[Beefy]

Don't want to drag it all up again but some of that £1m wasn't spent very well! And I don't believe previous targets would not have come to Southend for what is rumoured to be being paid to Foran etc.!

So you're saying that we deliberately didn't sign players that we rated so that we could sign someone that we knew wasn't as good?!

Or am I missing something?

 

[Jam_Man]

Don't want to drag it all up again but some of that £1m wasn't spent very well! And I don't believe previous targets would not have come to Southend for what is rumoured to be being paid to Foran etc.!

Thats irrelevant to this discussion, but Id be interested to know who you think would have come for what Foran is being paid...

Back to the topic, the club has made a decent investment in being in this division, and contrary to a point made earlier being relegated is not going to save us money in wages if the same players are still here next season on the same contracts, which is likely.

With the stadium being agreed and the vision Ron Martin has I can see no reason on earth why the club would be anything other bitterly disappointed to go down.

Unfortunately we spent the money on the wrong players.

Rather a damning comment. Personally dont see McCormack, Clarke and Hammell as failures. Foran could also be a decent player next season.

True not every single player we have signed has turned out to be a superstar but its unrealistic to expect every player to be a success.

 

[South Bank Hank]

As many of you will recall, Wiggy has been telling us for a long time that Ron Martin has been desperately (although not overly successfully) trying to get us relegated to the Conference.

Honestly, keep up...

 

[stickyboy]

Rather a damning comment. Personally dont see McCormack, Clarke and Hammell as failures. Foran could also be a decent player next season.

I was more referring to Ricketts, Paynter, Harrold & Francis. Foran hasnt done much yet either. The costly position was obviously the lack of striker

 

[Interpol Shrimper]

Thats irrelevant to this discussion, but Id be interested to know who you think would have come for what Foran is being paid...

A lot of the previous targets of summer 2005 and the 05/06 (I am speculating obviously)

E.g. the likes of Agogo, Grant Holt etc. Obviously not including guys like Tyson & Jevons in the above comment!

 

[Interpol Shrimper]

So you're saying that we deliberately didn't sign players that we rated so that we could sign someone that we knew wasn't as good?!

Or am I missing something?

No, not saying that at all.
I'm saying we didn't seem to sell Championship football to the believed targets or were unable to get in who we were after (I was told we tried to get in Lupoli from a reliable source but he obviously chose Derby as his preference).

What rankles with me is the "significant warchest for January" comment. Yes, £30k on Macca was a great piece of business but £250k on Foran wasn't (that was Motherwell just taking the p*ss for unsettling McDonald!)

 

[Beefy]

I was more referring to Ricketts, Paynter, Harrold & Francis. Foran hasnt done much yet either. The costly position was obviously the lack of striker

Francis and Harrold came for five figure sums and both were considered to be long-term investments. I happen to think that Francis could be a fantastic player for us next season and most people considered him to be a bargain when we got him so cheap.

Ricketts was a free transfer and Leeds & Boro were paying most of his wages.

Paynter... ok, well I'll give you that one. But we, the fans, didn't really do our bit there did we? He's only a kid and we crucified him. Again, he could be a massive player for us in League One.

 

[Beefy]

No, not saying that at all.
I'm saying we didn't seem to sell Championship football to the believed targets or were unable to get in who we were after (I was told we tried to get in Lupoli from a reliable source but he obviously chose Derby as his preference).

Well, ok. We did go in for Agogo a few times though and I suspect that both he and Holt are currently earning a hell of a lot more elsewhere than they would have been at Roots Hall.

We DID go in for Lupoli. Tilly was quoted in the Derby local rag talking about it before we played them in September. We couldn't afford the wages.

 

[Interpol Shrimper]

Well, ok. We did go in for Agogo a few times though and I suspect that both he and Holt are currently earning a hell of a lot more elsewhere than they would have been at Roots Hall.

We DID go in for Lupoli. Tilly was quoted in the Derby local rag talking about it before we played them in September. We couldn't afford the wages.

Probably those two are now than if they had signed when we were after them.

However, my point is we've ended up paying more to guys like Foran who are in my opinion lesser players when a little bit of speculation when the iron was hot could have reaped rewards!

Fair enough about Lupoli, are Derby paying his whole wages or are Arsenal still paying the balance?

 

[Jam_Man]

A lot of the previous targets of summer 2005 and the 05/06 (I am speculating obviously)

E.g. the likes of Agogo, Grant Holt etc. Obviously not including guys like Tyson & Jevons in the above comment!

Agogo is the only target I can recall as confirmed we went for and not getting. There was a lot of targets on here, but who knows if any of them were ever realistic (Trundle etc). Were there any other definites we were made aware of ? Memory isnt what it used to be !

How much was Agogo ? That was comparable to Forans cost wasnt it ? In fairness out of the two I would have taken Agogo, but he has only scored about 10 goals in league one so not even sure how he would have done at this level anyway.

 

[Kris]

It is a shame we didn't push the boat out a bit more to get Agogo but I've read numerous times that he was on a huge wage at Bristol Rovers so I guess we couldn't afford him. As nentioned above, Tilly tried to get Lupoli - I think he mentioned Bendtner as well, who went to Birmingham. Over the course of the season, we also went for Gary Roberts (Ipswich got him), Paul Ifill (Palace) and Mark Yeates (Leicester) and had loan requests for Chris Powell and JLloyd Samuel turned down.

I guess it makes you realise what we were up against this season. I still think the signings we did make weren't that bad. McCormack, Hammell and Clarke were good and I still think Harrold, Francis and Foran will contribute over time. Assuming Paynter heads back north in the summer, he will ultimately be seen as a failure but he hardly got a chance to prove himself.