Club Wages and bills thread

[Dave Smiths Love Child]

They won’t get paid, if fans carry on not attending the match, as extra 1k can make an big difference to their wages.

They didn’t get paid when they turned up !!!

 

[West Stand]

But they wont as we haven't breached them. As you say rather than yet more speculation we can simply wait and see.

Seems that they were breached

 

[kentblues]

Seems that they were breached

It’s still let’s see. It will go through further appeals and potentially the courts over the coming weeks. Kasper is used to spending weeks without football whilst his agent manages the fall out with his latest club. Don’t get me wrong I don’t blame Kasper- he obviously relies on the advice of his agent. Like Elvis he might be wondering right now if he has the right agent. Anyway let me know you thoughts in a few weeks when we know the outcome..

 

[Yer Blues]

he might be wondering right now if he has the right agent.

Kacper isn't some naive kid.

He may have been advised to give his notice.

He may have been advised to follow it through and leave.

He may have been advised to put that post on social media.

But he chose to do those things.

He chose to leave the club.

Let's not be kidded on that he is not completely in control of decisions that ultimately shape his career.

The other players (lower paid im sure) who have all gone through or still going through, are still here.

Kacper calls his own shots. With advice naturally.

I'm just not that fond of the "poor Kacper" narrative that's creeping in.

 

[kentblues]

Kacper isn't some naive kid.

He may have been advised to give his notice.

He may have been advised to follow it through and leave.

He may have been advised to put that post on social media.

But he chose to do those things.

He chose to leave the club.

Let's not be kidded on that he is not completely in control of decisions that ultimately shape his career.

The other players (lower paid im sure) who have all gone through or still going through, are still here.

Kacper calls his own shots. With advice naturally.

I'm just not that fond of the "poor Kacper" narrative that's creeping in.

Very true….but he is stilly following his bejewelled agent…

 

[Yer Blues]

Very true….but he is stilly following his bejewelled agent…

Or is he instructing his agent?

 

[kentblues]

Or is he instructing his agent?

You are right of course. Half the time it will be players telling the agent they want this or that (however unachievable). This just sounds too opportunist to be the player - and some assure us he wanted to be here hence his fall out at his last club…

 

[West Stand]

It’s still let’s see. It will go through further appeals and potentially the courts over the coming weeks. Kasper is used to spending weeks without football whilst his agent manages the fall out with his latest club. Don’t get me wrong I don’t blame Kasper- he obviously relies on the advice of his agent. Like Elvis he might be wondering right now if he has the right agent. Anyway let me know you thoughts in a few weeks when we know the outcome..

I copy below the FIFA guidance on players .

I had always assumed that the players had to be still owed two months wages for them to give notice and but having re read the regulations I suspect that’s not correct

In other words pay them late twice and the player can serve notice 15 days later , even if only one month is still outstanding that’s sporting just cause meaning they can walk


1.
In the case of a club unlawfully failing to pay a player at least two monthly salaries on their due dates, the player will be deemed to have a just cause to terminate his contract, provided that he has put the debtor club in default in writing and has granted a deadline of at least 15 days for the debtor club to fully comply with its financial obligation(s). Alternative provisions in contracts existing at the time of this provision coming into force may be considered.

 

[Medway Blue]

I copy below the FIFA guidance on players .

I had always assumed that the players had to be still owed two months wages for them to give notice and but having re read the regulations I suspect that’s not correct

In other words pay them late twice and the player can serve notice 15 days later , even if only one month is still outstanding that’s sporting just cause meaning they can walk


1.
In the case of a club unlawfully failing to pay a player at least two monthly salaries on their due dates, the player will be deemed to have a just cause to terminate his contract, provided that he has put the debtor club in default in writing and has granted a deadline of at least 15 days for the debtor club to fully comply with its financial obligation(s). Alternative provisions in contracts existing at the time of this provision coming into force may be considered.

This is how I read it. Any late payment is a breach, regardless of how late it is and regardless of whether it's eventually rectified. I'm sure the players were paid late November and maybe December, perhaps only a day or two, but late nonetheless.

 

[West Stand]

This is how I read it. Any late payment is a breach, regardless of how late it is and regardless of whether it's eventually rectified. I'm sure the players were paid late November and maybe December, perhaps only a day or two, but late nonetheless.

Indeed but in terms of a player doing anything about it they have to still be owed money 15 days after giving notice

 

[in the know]

Id heard that there was an attempt to pay the players the money owed on the Friday 24th. I believe funds had been received at that point, but it's not clear why it didn't get actioned. Had it gone through it may have resulted in making the lopata issue nul and void.
However, that's all ifs and maybe's. We are where we are and it's all about chesterfield now and who we can get on the pitch.

 

[kentblues]

This is how I read it. Any late payment is a breach, regardless of how late it is and regardless of whether it's eventually rectified. I'm sure the players were paid late November and maybe December, perhaps only a day or two, but late nonetheless.

No. Simply not true. The breaches have to be material and there is ample case law regarding what that means. I don’t know how many ways the same same thing can be pointed out- I have previously posted guidance from leading sports lawyers. We seem to live in a Trumpian paradigm were the alternative facts survive come what may…

 

[Medway Blue]

No. Simply not true. The breaches have to be material and there is ample case law regarding what that means. I don’t know how many ways the same same thing can be pointed out- I have previously posted guidance from leading sports lawyers. We seem to live in a Trumpian paradigm were the alternative facts survive come what may…

Steady on. I didn't intend to present what I was saying as a fact. I was merely saying that this is how I originally read it the regulation (the wording of which isn't particularly tight and is arguably open to interpretation). So leave accusations of "Trumpian" and "alternative facts" out of it please - seems to be all too easy a go-to these days). Ultimately, none of us know so we're all just assuming.

 

[kentblues]

Steady on. I didn't intend to present what I was saying as a fact. I was merely saying that this is how I originally read it the regulation (the wording of which isn't particularly tight and arguably open to interpretation). So leave accusations of "Trumpian" and "alternative facts" out kf it please - seems to be all too easy a go-to these days). Ultimately, none of us know so we're all just assuming.

Apologies you got the brunt of my frustration and to be fair you wee only responding to another post…again I apologise.

EA Sports would be my recommendation in terms of support on legal matters in this field (other suppliers exist).

This is a good start point

Terminating a contract between a football club and a football player | EA Sports Law

A working relationship between club and player differs from ordinary employment in many ways. Contrary to ordinary working conditions, the parties bind themselves to each other for a period of time, where the financial consequences of breaking the contract could be significant. The condition that th

www.easportslaw.com

Remember the articles / rules/ statute is only the start point. It’s the subsequent case law that then defines the reality. Something I know both to my cost, and happily far more often, my benefit :-)

 

[crangoner]

I didn't intend to present what I was saying as a fact.

Becoming a bit of a habit now, James.

 

[Medway Blue]

Becoming a bit of a habit now, James.

Erm, what?

 

[Exiled Shrimper]

Apologies you got the brunt of my frustration and to be fair you wee only responding to another post…again I apologise.

EA Sports would be my recommendation in terms of support on legal matters in this field (other suppliers exist).

This is a good start point

Terminating a contract between a football club and a football player | EA Sports Law

A working relationship between club and player differs from ordinary employment in many ways. Contrary to ordinary working conditions, the parties bind themselves to each other for a period of time, where the financial consequences of breaking the contract could be significant. The condition that th

www.easportslaw.com

Remember the articles / rules/ statute is only the start point. It’s the subsequent case law that then defines the reality. Something I know both to my cost, and happily far more often, my benefit :-)

Thanks for sharing this; although essentially we’re not any further forward in our knowledge of this specific situation (and, anyway, all cases are dealt with on their own individual merits), it does provide some relevant understanding of such disputes and case studies, and I’d endorse your recommendation, with the caveat that it’s not going to provide any answers for those that are seeking them (and I appreciate you’re not suggesting it will).

Ultimately we don’t know what is in Kacper Łopata’s contract, nor what he or his agent have determined is a serious breach of contract by Southend United FC, nor what steps have been taken to resolve this, and it’s possible we never will, so it’s best not to speculate and just wait and see how it all plays out. Although I guess that’s not much fun on a forum like this…

 

[West Stand]

Apologies you got the brunt of my frustration and to be fair you wee only responding to another post…again I apologise.

EA Sports would be my recommendation in terms of support on legal matters in this field (other suppliers exist).

This is a good start point

Terminating a contract between a football club and a football player | EA Sports Law

A working relationship between club and player differs from ordinary employment in many ways. Contrary to ordinary working conditions, the parties bind themselves to each other for a period of time, where the financial consequences of breaking the contract could be significant. The condition that th

www.easportslaw.com

Remember the articles / rules/ statute is only the start point. It’s the subsequent case law that then defines the reality. Something I know both to my cost, and happily far more often, my benefit :-)

That guidance is based very much on previous iterations of FIFAs rules. Much has changed since the article was published

Irrespective I think that in this instance it will be the FA that rule on the matter not FIFA.

 

[nevereatwhitesnow]

It’s still let’s see. It will go through further appeals and potentially the courts over the coming weeks. Kasper is used to spending weeks without football whilst his agent manages the fall out with his latest club. Don’t get me wrong I don’t blame Kasper- he obviously relies on the advice of his agent. Like Elvis he might be wondering right now if he has the right agent. Anyway let me know you thoughts in a few weeks when we know the outcome..

So your blaming Kaspers agent for his interpretation of some rules (based on the actual contract we assume he’s familiar with and his experience and advice on regulations) rather than the person who is the primary cause of the issue being the failure to fulfill the basic requirement of paying employees on the terms stipulated when he signed them (and approved the budget)

Sounds reasonable and balanced eh!?

 

[kentblues]

So your blaming Kaspers agent for his interpretation of some rules (based on the actual contract we assume he’s familiar with and his experience and advice on regulations) rather than the person who is the primary cause of the issue being the failure to fulfill the basic requirement of paying employees on the terms stipulated when he signed them (and approved the budget)

Sounds reasonable and balanced eh!?

No - you somehow seem to have missed that I have already said if Ron had paid him on time we wouldn't be here. This mess is of Ron's making.

Whether Kasper is able to terminate his contract and/or whether compensation is due as he is under 24 is a different issue and we will have to wait and see the outcome.