Clegg-Bashing

[osymandus]

Im wondering if any other there's are having any kind off affect to be honest . It only shows how worried the Tory backed papers are , as they will be the real "victims" in a hung parliament, as they will lose out on control and influence .

The idea that in this day and age the a hung parliament all working together to sort out the mess is a very scary one to those entrenched in the political landscape.

Listing to Radio 5 this morning dispite Mandalsons statement that he though Clegg was arrogant the Westminster "talks" are of an LIB-LAB coalition Clegg home secretary Cable Assistant to the treasury and the Lord of Darkness as Foreign secretary .

That leaves the Tory's no where

 

[canveyshrimper]

Im wondering if any other there's are having any kind off affect to be honest . It only shows how worried the Tory backed papers are , as they will be the real "victims" in a hung parliament, as they will lose out on control and influence .

The idea that in this day and age the a hung parliament all working together to sort out the mess is a very scary one to those entrenched in the political landscape.

Listing to Radio 5 this morning dispite Mandalsons statement that he though Clegg was arrogant the Westminster "talks" are of an LIB-LAB coalition Clegg home secretary Cable Assistant to the treasury and the Lord of Darkness as Foreign secretary .

That leaves the Tory's no where

The Tory press is no different from the Labour press in that the more bellicose papers will seek to smear the opposition, hence the anti Clegg stories in the Sun and for that matter the Mirror.

I am really not sure that a hung Parliament can or will be beneficial, Clegg is on record as saying he won't support Brown if Labour are third in votes cast but have the most seats. So from that position if he suddenly does get into bed with Labour (and Brown) he'll be exposed as a liar and probably a hypocrite.

Another point on your post osy is that I'm assuming that Darling will in this scenario remain Chancellor. I don't see the hugely ambitious (and Mandelson accolyte) David Milliband giving up the Foreign Office. He wants the top job, and the electorate won't forgive any party for foisting another "unelected" PM on the country.

 

[Bob Cratchitt]

There are black *****. There are white *****. Lots of Chinese people are *****. Lots of French people are *****. Don't get me started on the ****ing Belgians. I've met ***** from Pakistan. ******s from Wales. Walking Ballbags from Berlin. The only thing they've ever had in common is that they're human.

Is ***** a cover for the word racist?

As unfortunately that is a human disease and is not restricted to one particular subset of the human race, although I do wish it was not.

Also I do think it will take a long while for the whole of the human race to rid ourselves of it completely.

 

[TravellingBlue]

Im wondering if any other there's are having any kind off affect to be honest . It only shows how worried the Tory backed papers are , as they will be the real "victims" in a hung parliament, as they will lose out on control and influence .

The idea that in this day and age the a hung parliament all working together to sort out the mess is a very scary one to those entrenched in the political landscape.

Listing to Radio 5 this morning dispite Mandalsons statement that he though Clegg was arrogant the Westminster "talks" are of an LIB-LAB coalition Clegg home secretary Cable Assistant to the treasury and the Lord of Darkness as Foreign secretary .

That leaves the Tory's no where

I presume that Brown would then remain as PM? Strange that a politician who will most probably receive less votes than his counterparts can remain as the nation's governmental focal point.

In fact Clegg stated recently in his Nick Robinson (BBC) interview:

"I think a party which has come third and so millions of people have decided to abandon them, has lost the election spectacularly, cannot then lay claim to providing the prime minister of this country".

The longer this 'hung parliament' possibility goes on the more disasterous I feel it becomes for the country.

So who's your PM going to be Osy?

 

[osymandus]

The Tory press is no different from the Labour press in that the more bellicose papers will seek to smear the opposition, hence the anti Clegg stories in the Sun and for that matter the Mirror.

I am really not sure that a hung Parliament can or will be beneficial, Clegg is on record as saying he won't support Brown if Labour are third in votes cast but have the most seats. So from that position if he suddenly does get into bed with Labour (and Brown) he'll be exposed as a liar and probably a hypocrite.

Another point on your post osy is that I'm assuming that Darling will in this scenario remain Chancellor. I don't see the hugely ambitious (and Mandelson accolyte) David Milliband giving up the Foreign Office. He wants the top job, and the electorate won't forgive any party for foisting another "unelected" PM on the country.

There are more Pro Tories papers then Labour ! However another point is teh electorate are getting a little sick of teh paper's as well and has been shown the concept of The Sun won;t won it woill not be around after this election

I believe Mr Millaband has no choice in this ;) If also he is Mandys accolyte he will have no choice but to step aside.
Hear in lie's that point Clegg already said it this morning . To be honest i personally would rather vote and have someone in place who changes their minds on teh circumstance this ridiiculous notion of sticking to your ideals even while going down in meathphorical flames/ship. Does it make him a lier now he said if its in 3rd place , also other coalitions with other parties can take place.

Its new for this country its uncertain but recent history shows the most successful European countries have been doing it for decades with out major issuue (hence why Belgium and Italy screw it up ;) ) .

What this is showing is the split tribal ideas of traditional English politics has been broken , its creating a small vacuum and people have no idea where its going. Good thing i say , sit back enjoy the ride.

 

[osymandus]

I presume that Brown would then remain as PM? Strange that a politician who will most probably receive less votes than his counterparts can remain as the nation's governmental focal point.

In fact Clegg stated recently in his Nick Robinson (BBC) interview:

"I think a party which has come third and so millions of people have decided to abandon them, has lost the election spectacularly, cannot then lay claim to providing the prime minister of this country".

The longer this 'hung parliament' possibility goes on the more disasterous I feel it becomes for the country.

So who's your PM going to be Osy?

You feel because its changed you understanding of the political landscape .
I know that quote, i also know it's throw away nonsense i wouldn't give it any more credence then if Brown or Cameron had said it The other point of a hunt parliament is they have to sit down and decide what is best for the country and work together they are forced into.

My Personal one would of course be Nick Clegg . It probably won't happen so we shall see what the coalition brings

 

[TravellingBlue]

You feel because its changed you understanding of the political landscape .
I know that quote, i also know it's throw away nonsense i wouldn't give it any more credence then if Brown or Cameron had said it The other point of a hunt parliament is they have to sit down and decide what is best for the country and work together they are forced into.

My Personal one would of course be Nick Clegg . It probably won't happen so we shall see what the coalition brings

Throw away nonsense by the man you want to lead this country out of the worst recession in its history? Probably as throw away as his policies on immigration, defence and health et al.

Sorry, my friend, I just do not get this 'Nick is the One'.

And as we continue to pontificate (!) I am still undecided on who to vote for.

 

[osymandus]

Throw away nonsense by the man you want to lead this country out of the worst recession in its history? Probably as throw away as his policies on immigration, defence and health et al.

Sorry, my friend, I just do not get this 'Nick is the One'.

And as we continue to pontificate (!) I am still undecided on who to vote for.

I dont believe in leader politics thats why to me its throw away , the best party for me is Lib Dem's as they will work with others , make choices that change the landscape and the external finical people all agree Vince Cable is the best prospect for fiscal administration at of all of them.

This election has made more people read what each party is about not so much the leaders . The Lib Dems shot up not because Clegg wasnt this charismatic new coming but because people went bloody hell a 3rd party quick log in the net and read what this is about.

Its the internet that is changing this remember who controls teh flow of information controls the lives of their populace.

 

[TravellingBlue]

I dont believe in leader politics thats why to me its throw away , the best party for me is Lib Dem's as they will work with others , make choices that change the landscape and the external finical people all agree Vince Cable is the best prospect for fiscal administration at of all of them.

This election has made more people read what each party is about not so much the leaders . The Lib Dems shot up not because Clegg wasnt this charismatic new coming but because people went bloody hell a 3rd party quick log in the net and read what this is about.

Its the internet that is changing this remember who controls teh flow of information controls the lives of their populace.

Got to disagree again! No one (man on the street) knew who Nick Clegg was or what the Lib Dems were about until the 'live debates'. The debates are what have made people sit up and take notice of UK politics.

Now what I will agree with is that following two weeks of frantic internet searching and deliberating the country has woken up to the fact there are three parties vying for top spot.

I like many others have already have already completely discounted Labour and Brown after 13 years of terrible government. Clegg does not have the manifesto that I would support and I dislike him as another 'grinning politician' - and he still hasn't explained his Expenses either! That leaves me with the Tory's and Cameron who I have never voted for (historically a Labour family) or one of the smaller 'other' parties to vote for.

My conundrum is mirrored in my work place, at home and it appears on just about every internet forum that I look at! Who to vote for?

 

[osymandus]

Got to disagree again! No one (man on the street) knew who Nick Clegg was or what the Lib Dems were about until the 'live debates'. The debates are what have made people sit up and take notice of UK politics.

Now what I will agree with is that following two weeks of frantic internet searching and deliberating the country has woken up to the fact there are three parties vying for top spot.

I like many others have already have already completely discounted Labour and Brown after 13 years of terrible government. Clegg does not have the manifesto that I would support and I dislike him as another 'grinning politician' - and he still hasn't explained his Expenses either! That leaves me with the Tory's and Cameron who I have never voted for (historically a Labour family) or one of the smaller 'other' parties to vote for.

My conundrum is mirrored in my work place, at home and it appears on just about every internet forum that I look at! Who to vote for?

That's what i meant by this Election (i was just assuming the leaders debate was included in that . Reminds me there was a little back handed compliment on Clegg as being Blair like after teh first debate.

Honestly brilliant thats what we want , if people are reading Tory sites and agreeing with it (even though i don't ) at least they are going well actually thast what we want. Personally i don't trust em and under the surface they havnt changed much at all.

To be fair to Clegg he did explain the expense by releasing the bank account details and payments the same day as the allegations . It killed the story pretty quickly . Is he more of the same in some way's yes but they will do electorial reform which will allow us later on get more of what we want . Another thing people have done is gone for teh short term goals , we need to think longer , it could take 20 years to clear out the economic mess. We do need electorial reform , and even if teh planet isnt warming up nearly 7 Billion people on earth are eating up resources we are running out of. Time we looked further then the payments of our ISA's and bonds , and placed foundations for change.

 

[canveyshrimper]

The point on the expenses scandal osy was that in the first leaders deabte he tried to paint the Lib-Dems as whiter than white, when in fact they are far from it, Clegg included. Cameron is the only one who has fully understood the public outrage over expenses, and he's at least tried to bring some transparency to the whole thing. When this first broke the Speaker (Martin) along with Brown tried to sweep the whole issue under the carpet, and IIRC Clegg was happy to go along with that.

Clegg may well wish he wasn't so twee and holier than thou on this issue as if there's any truth in the story that he made 300k on selling his house in Brussels after his stint as a MEP he'll be branded at worst as a hypocrite, particularly after his exhortations that his Sheffield house belongs to the tax payer.

And given Blair's problems with veracity I'm not sure being compared favourably to our perma tanned former PM is a compliment.

 

[osymandus]

The point on the expenses scandal osy was that in the first leaders deabte he tried to paint the Lib-Dems as whiter than white, when in fact they are far from it, Clegg included. Cameron is the only one who has fully understood the public outrage over expenses, and he's at least tried to bring some transparency to the whole thing. When this first broke the Speaker (Martin) along with Brown tried to sweep the whole issue under the carpet, and IIRC Clegg was happy to go along with that.

Clegg may well wish he wasn't so twee and holier than thou on this issue as if there's any truth in the story that he made 300k on selling his house in Brussels after his stint as a MEP he'll be branded at worst as a hypocrite, particularly after his exhortations that his Sheffield house belongs to the tax payer.

And given Blair's problems with veracity I'm not sure being compared favourably to our perma tanned former PM is a compliment.

I don't believe he did he made the point they were simply lesser then teh over two , and if people believe in whiter then white politicians more fool them.


They all understand it , it's Cameron was forced it spinning it more as the Tories had some of the worst and most ridiculous he couldn't hide from it, and remember it was a Tory party members who objected most strongly to paying back and one even saying they deserved it !
They certainly arnt up for transparency any more then teh others. If satire is the best form judgement on this when Have i got news for you hit on this scandal they felt the worst they could bring about for Lib Dems was a packet of Hob nobs (and a few low rent mortgages which were paid back ).

MEP issue is different in the eyes of the electorate over here then in Europe
1) Who paid for the house in the first place (was it from the direct EC funding or was it local government which would be Belgium ?)

2) This was 9 years ago ! the expense for living abroad were given to all MP's he appears to have funded the morgate privately and while it say's in the mail "
Over his period as an MEP, Mr Clegg was entitled to an allowance worth nearly £140,000 or 161,358 Euro.
About 110,000 euros – £95,048 – of this was meant to go specifically to paying for accommodation in Brussels." I cant find anything that says he took it or if he did what it used for ?


In the paragraph prior it states the couple "The couple paid 226,450 euros (£196,000) and borrowed 274,542 euros (£237,000) as a mortgage from Spanish bank, Argentaria." Which covers it ?

Even the times story is speculation (though i agree with why the morgage appears to be higher then the cost of the property)


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article7110053.ece

​

 

[canveyshrimper]

But two wrongs don't make a right. I'm not advocating either way on this but Clegg has to understand that the Lib Dems have had their collective snouts in the trough as much as their Tory & Labour counterparts, there's just less of them.

Cameron has done his best to clean up the worst of the Tory excesses, and it's interesting you say that a few Tories have refused to pay back, a few Labour MP's have said the same and I'm pretty sure there's a Lib Dem or two in the woddwork. And it's worth pointing out that three Labour MP's (and a Tory Lord) are standing trial for fraud.

I agree the Brussels business is speculation, but it appears he may have done "a Mandelson" with his mortgage, but you miss my point. If Clegg has pocketed 300k, and then being preachy about his Sheffield house then he's guilty of hypocrisy IMO. However this is speculation and I'm sure this story has legs to run.

 

[osymandus]

But two wrongs don't make a right. I'm not advocating either way on this but Clegg has to understand that the Lib Dems have had their collective snouts in the trough as much as their Tory & Labour counterparts, there's just less of them.

Cameron has done his best to clean up the worst of the Tory excesses, and it's interesting you say that a few Tories have refused to pay back, a few Labour MP's have said the same and I'm pretty sure there's a Lib Dem or two in the woddwork. And it's worth pointing out that three Labour MP's (and a Tory Lord) are standing trial for fraud.

I agree the Brussels business is speculation, but it appears he may have done "a Mandelson" with his mortgage, but you miss my point. If Clegg has pocketed 300k, and then being preachy about his Sheffield house then he's guilty of hypocrisy IMO. However this is speculation and I'm sure this story has legs to run.

Well actually the stories died a death its not making teh front pages and its too speculative . It looks unlikley he has done a mandelson and its far to speculative . Cameron had to make teh changes as the Tories were the worest case exploiters and it could very well have destroyed his party . Lib Dem's have certainly dipped in but as already pointed out majority of them have actually made reasonable claims where as the other 2 parties have not. AS far as im aware no Lib Dem MP's have refused or object to the paying back.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...-to-pay-back-expenses-to-Sir-Thomas-Legg.html

This is the Worest Lib Dem excess http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...08000-flat-used-by-daughter-as-bolt-hole.html

Though it appears the original issue was an over payment to him and he has now returned teh money anway

http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/new...-expenses/article-1830788-detail/article.html

They may have had fewer seats but they had the same allowances to claim from .