Can PB solve the problem?

[Napster]

I think Alan Hansen said it best. You don't win anything with kids.

 

[flapjack]

Owen played for Liverpool and England (world cup 98) and had no issues and it was a harder league to play in thatn our so don't see that makes any difference

 

[Somerset Ex-TTB]

Owen played for Liverpool and England (world cup 98) and had no issues and it was a harder league to play in thatn our so don't see that makes any difference

Yes he did, and so did Rooney, but I bet that they did not play week in week out for their clubs, and I bet that they did not play many 90 minutes and were subbed off pretty much every week.

That also did wonders for Owen's development and he never suffered any long term injuries did he.

 

[Tommy2holes]

Good enough = old enough

 

[Napster]

Yes he did, and so did Rooney, but I bet that they did not play week in week out for their clubs, and I bet that they did not play many 90 minutes and were subbed off pretty much every week.

That also did wonders for Owen's development and he never suffered any long term injuries did he.

Owen - 362 games, 89 caps. Quite a decent career. Oh and he played a full season 97/98 and 2 appearances in 96/7

Rooney - was already an Everton regular when he won his first cap in Feb 03 and played every game.

 

[flapjack]

Yes he did, and so did Rooney, but I bet that they did not play week in week out for their clubs, and I bet that they did not play many 90 minutes and were subbed off pretty much every week.

That also did wonders for Owen's development and he never suffered any long term injuries did he.

But it proves that a player cabn play for his club and for his country at 18 in a harder league and do well, if these youngsters are in the first team squad then they should be used, if they are not ready then drop them out of the squad, in fact owen made 23 first team games for Liverpool in his first season.........just give them a chance, we have nothing to lose at the moment as the season is young and the other strikers are not on form

 

[flapjack]

.....Pele 16 when he played for Brazil.....good enough ....old enough

 

[mrsblue]

But it proves that a player cabn play for his club and for his country at 18 in a harder league and do well, if these youngsters are in the first team squad then they should be used, if they are not ready then drop them out of the squad, in fact owen made 23 first team games for Liverpool in his first season.........just give them a chance, we have nothing to lose at the moment as the season is young and the other strikers are not on form

Agree with this.

Phil was very reluctant to give Jack a game and he is now top scorer after only 3 appearances !

 

[Mick]

I think Alan Hansen said it best. You don't win anything with kids.

Indeed he did, famously, - after a young Man Utd lost an opening match to Aston Villa. That was the season the "kids" did the double.

 

[onceknownasrab]

I have no idea whether Isaac Layne is up to scratch or not but he is 19 and has played against experienced men when at Billericay. http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/fo...p-non-league-sensation-Isaac-Layne-for-a-QUID

What harm could it do to at least introduce his backside to the subs bench?

 

[Ricky Otto]

Phil wasn’t a very popular appointment with many, and I always had a feeling that any run of bad results would get this kind of over-reaction. I can sympathise with having a manager at the club you don’t want as I felt like that about Sturrock, I didn’t have a problem with his quality of management or him as a person, just the style of football that bored me to death. Despite our lack of goals, I don’t think our football is boring overall (there will always be the odd game) and that is what puzzles me about the anti-Brown brigade, I don’t know why they feel so strongly when things are really not that bad at all? A couple of wins and we are right back in the mix.

The problem solver comment and his reluctance to try anything different is IMO premature. Phil, like every manger, has a footballing philosophy and a system he prefers to play, he has assembled a squad with this system in mind. We won our 1[SUP]st[/SUP] 2 games with this system and have had a couple of games where finishing has let us down, to make wholesale changes and bring in a different formation isn’t a guaranteed fix. To persist when there is no positives or there is a prolonged run of bad results is stubborn and foolish be we are by no means at that point now IMO.

Finally on the Jack Payne point, I don’t have a problem with his slow introduction and think he has been nurtured quite well. Examples of Rooney and Owen are great but for every Rooney and Owen there are a handful of other youngsters put in too soon out of their depth that, despite huge promise, fail. League 2 is also a lot more physical and not the best breeding ground for young talent.

 

[Southend Elvis]

My view on PB was, he couldn't solve the problem last year when we went on that terrible run, and is struggling to solve the striking problem now, I for one don't trust his judgement anymore, Payne was ready after the Walsall game.

 

[mrsblue]

Every football manager know's when they sign their contract the clock starts to tick as they realise it's a results business.

My doubt with Phil began during the winless run last season when it seemed he just would not shuffle the pack and hoped it would get better,I understand budget restraints and other behind the scenes stuff yet nonetheless he selected the same guys every time.

Fans are fickle including me yet we all demand the same outcome..Promotion.

Can Phil deliver none of us know as we all have different ideas on how to play and whom to play yet the overriding factor is when he penned his deal that clock is now moving with greater intent.

 

[shrimperjon]

Phil wasn’t a very popular appointment with many, and I always had a feeling that any run of bad results would get this kind of over-reaction. I can sympathise with having a manager at the club you don’t want as I felt like that about Sturrock, I didn’t have a problem with his quality of management or him as a person, just the style of football that bored me to death. Despite our lack of goals, I don’t think our football is boring overall (there will always be the odd game) and that is what puzzles me about the anti-Brown brigade, I don’t know why they feel so strongly when things are really not that bad at all? A couple of wins and we are right back in the mix.

The problem solver comment and his reluctance to try anything different is IMO premature. Phil, like every manger, has a footballing philosophy and a system he prefers to play, he has assembled a squad with this system in mind. We won our 1[SUP]st[/SUP] 2 games with this system and have had a couple of games where finishing has let us down, to make wholesale changes and bring in a different formation isn’t a guaranteed fix. To persist when there is no positives or there is a prolonged run of bad results is stubborn and foolish be we are by no means at that point now IMO.

Finally on the Jack Payne point, I don’t have a problem with his slow introduction and think he has been nurtured quite well. Examples of Rooney and Owen are great but for every Rooney and Owen there are a handful of other youngsters put in too soon out of their depth that, despite huge promise, fail. League 2 is also a lot more physical and not the best breeding ground for young talent.

But for a time, like it or not it worked. We got to Wembley and also a playoff semi final in a season that got us 83 points. Any other year we would have gone up automatically. I agree that the style of football is different under PB, but the second half on Saturday was woeful at best. We will never be free scoring under PB as he is at times to defensive. Look at how Burton have started the season, 5 wins, 1 draw and beaten QPR in the league cup. They play good attacking football;, score goals and are tight at the back. Some would have expected them to have a play off hangover, quite the opposite, Rowett has improved the squad and has continued where they left off last season. We appear a long way off competing with them at this stage. Saturday will obviously be a marker as well, Burton comfortably saw off Pompey yesterday, will be interesting to see how we do against the same opposition.

 

[Ricky Otto]

Every football manager know's when they sign their contract the clock starts to tick as they realise it's a results business.

My doubt with Phil began during the winless run last season when it seemed he just would not shuffle the pack and hoped it would get better,I understand budget restraints and other behind the scenes stuff yet nonetheless he selected the same guys every time.

Fans are fickle including me yet we all demand the same outcome..Promotion.

Can Phil deliver none of us know as we all have different ideas on how to play and whom to play yet the overriding factor is when he penned his deal that clock is now moving with greater intent.

Then we had a good run at the end of the season getting us back into the playoffs, so it did get better.

I agree with the rest of what you say though, we don't know if Phil can deliver, my money still says he can

 

[Ricky Otto]

But for a time, like it or not it worked. We got to Wembley and also a playoff semi final in a season that got us 83 points. Any other year we would have gone up automatically. I agree that the style of football is different under PB, but the second half on Saturday was woeful at best. We will never be free scoring under PB as he is at times to defensive. Look at how Burton have started the season, 5 wins, 1 draw and beaten QPR in the league cup. They play good attacking football;, score goals and are tight at the back. Some would have expected them to have a play off hangover, quite the opposite, Rowett has improved the squad and has continued where they left off last season. We appear a long way off competing with them at this stage. Saturday will obviously be a marker as well, Burton comfortably saw off Pompey yesterday, will be interesting to see how we do against the same opposition.

It did work to a point, Brown got us to the play off semi as well though. If he gets us into the play offs again you could argue he's done a better job and did it with a more watchable brand of football. If we don't get promotion I'll understand people wanting Brown out, but not now. You will always get poor games and off days and by the sounds of things the 2nd half sat was dire but I can remember a lot more dull games under Sturrock than I can Brown. Burton have made a great start but who's to say we won't have a similar run? It's the final table that counts.

 

[mrsblue]

It did work to a point, Brown got us to the play off semi as well though. If he gets us into the play offs again you could argue he's done a better job and did it with a more watchable brand of football. If we don't get promotion I'll understand people wanting Brown out, but not now. You will always get poor games and off days and by the sounds of things the 2nd half sat was dire but I can remember a lot more dull games under Sturrock than I can Brown. Burton have made a great start but who's to say we won't have a similar run? It's the final table that counts.

Sturrock IMO did a worldly job here,True the style was direct but I thought he played it to his players strengths and weaknesses,Does Phil over elaborate with the guys he has?

 

[Tommy2holes]

I don't think it's results which are angering people it's that it is obvious where we are lacking and yet nothing is being done. That second half against a poor Oxford side was completely unacceptable and had we had a winning mentality we would put more goals away and gone for the jugular. We don't have that in our locker at the moment and unlike last season we don't have the ability to hold a lead.

So where does that leave us?

 

[TTS]

Sturrock IMO did a worldly job here,True the style was direct but I thought he played it to his players strengths and weaknesses,Does Phil over elaborate with the guys he has?

This one comment (and I am not picking it out because you made it), is that this sums football and Southend to that point perfectly !

When PS was here, wow did he have people slagging him off ...., poor direct football, the fact we didnt get promotion on 83 points (which was actually viewed as a failure). Yet, at the time, like you, he did a superb job getting us from the brink, to the edge of success. I supported him against those doubters then ...

Now, currently, at the moment, I still support PB. I saw some wonderful performances last season that I would use to that. We have seen players under him blossom, Bentley, Prosser and Lenny to name a few. This season we are seeing a stronger player in Clifford. Furthermore, he has made some excellent signings, Coker, Atkinson and also Weston (he will come good).

I think PB does play games differently to fans own persepective , but again results this season have been affected by split second choices of others. Bolger stupidly getting sent off so early at Plymouth. The Wimbledon goalkeeping having the game of his life at Roots Hall, plus the inconsistent penalty decisions on Saturday ie if Oxfords was given, Paynes should have been given in the 1st half, giving us the opportunity to go 2 - 0 and therefore massively changing the game and the general atmosphere.

PB is (rightly so as he is paid to be) being scrutinised for everything single thing, however when he says something, like the points I make above, he is accussed of making excuses. Football can change in the blink of an eye, and sadly these are going against us at the moment (again IMO)

 

[shrimperjon]

I don't think it's results which are angering people it's that it is obvious where we are lacking and yet nothing is being done. That second half against a poor Oxford side was completely unacceptable and had we had a winning mentality we would put more goals away and gone for the jugular. We don't have that in our locker at the moment and unlike last season we don't have the ability to hold a lead.

So where does that leave us?

I agree with you. A few weeks ago Cambridge beat Carlisle 5-0. At half time the score was 3-0, did they sit back? no they went for the kill and scored two more. Firstly i dont see us beating anyone 5-0 under PB, secondly, we should have come out second half, pinned Oxford back, tried for the second goal which would have killed off any chance Oxford had. What actually happened was the complete opposite. I dont know what was said at half time, but it certainly didn't work and its that sort of thing that bothers fans more. Im not for one minute suggest that PB should go, he deserves the chance to improve things, but defo something is not quite right, especially when you look at the performances of some of our so called better players, the likes of Hurst, Corr, Leonard, even White and Coker haven't been as effective so far this season. The problems as highlighted have been scoring goals yet last season we got Woodrow in who did very little and went back to Fulham and did ok, Loza, one good game, now barney 2 penalties in 20 odd games and then corr on Saturday, about as disinterested as i have ever seen him, along with coulthirst who cant hit a barn door! this is the area that has needed addressing and im not sure PB knows how to.

PB is now talking about moving White to LB if a loanee isnt brought in and Worrell to RB, does anyone think thats the right thing to do. Im not aware that Worrrell has ever played in that role in his career other than a few weeks back when he came on for white against Wimbledon i think and got skinned three or four times.