Browns time must be up!

[Tommy2holes]

I remember Harry Rednapp pondering on why Bobby Moore did not make it in management. He had as he said the knowledge, contacts, tactics and personality to achieve great things. Rednapp's conclusion was that he'd made the mistake of going to a crap club. Now before everyone goes mental what he meant was a club that had little money (it was always thus) and a club that experienced players would avoid unless they had a career threatening injury, were on the way down or perhaps lived in the vicinity. They certainly would be paid more elsewhere. I also remember John Still saying after an evening at Roots Hall when Tilson was getting grief from the cognoscenti of the East stand that he could not understand Tilson getting so much stick from his own fans as "he's overachieved as manager given his resources". By any definition Brown is a good manager. Records don't lie. First manager ever to take Hull to top division, after 9 games they were top but just survived the season. Now how many teams have stayed up in the Premiership after going up. Few I can tell you. He then had a few hiccups but who hasn't and frankly that is why we got him. Do you think he would have come here if he hadn't. So we get promoted via the playoffs and miss out by 1 point last season from the playoffs. Pretty good in my book.
This year the strategy and let's face it gamble of getting good players who were injury prone (I won't list them) dodgy geezers who were good players but had lost their way (I won't name him) youth that are clearly no yet ready has not paid off.
You'd be mad to join us as manager.

A good post but you fail to mention he was also poor at both derby county and Preston and lucky to find another league managers job.

Love Ronald or hate him, he backs his managers. Brown has been given the support of his chairman and the large majority of the fans for a very long time.

He has produced a relatively successful period for the club whilst backed financially better than any other previous manager in our history.

He has this season mismanaged that money and as a result we have an over the hill and crocked team. Of course signing old players is a gamble, and one that hasnt paid off.

Does this make Brown a bad manager?

Nope, but a number of things hint that he is.

He has limited tactical ability.
He has failed to motivate the team.
Publically thrown singular players under the bus.
Played players continually out of position whilst overlooking those who could rightfully play that position.
He is also guilty of letting certain players not put in a shift and keep the shirt.

All of the above are a recipe for a poor season.

 

[OldBlueLady]

I think the roots hall faithful have been very patient with Brown and the players this season. A horrible performance and a poor result this coming Saturday may be one too many.

Got a feeling that Brown could be in for some abuse this weekend.

But the trouble is that the players hear this and it has a detrimental effect on them - and we really don't need to disincentivise them anymore!

 

[wildheart]

Did not want my first post to be a negative one but here goes, I think PB's time is up. He seems to have lost the fire somewhere along the road. I think he always felt the Roots Hall was a stepping stone for him to get back in the lime light. A thin squad, that seems to be full of division, too many aged players, with no real camaraderie. Its going to be a tough run in, but with a few bodies in and with a bit better direction we may survive?

 

[rigsby]

A good post but you fail to mention he was also poor at both derby county and Preston and lucky to find another league managers job.

Love Ronald or hate him, he backs his managers. Brown has been given the support of his chairman and the large majority of the fans for a very long time.

He has produced a relatively successful period for the club whilst backed financially better than any other previous manager in our history.

He has this season mismanaged that money and as a result we have an over the hill and crocked team. Of course signing old players is a gamble, and one that hasnt paid off.

Does this make Brown a bad manager?

Nope, but a number of things hint that he is.

He has limited tactical ability.
He has failed to motivate the team.
Publically thrown singular players under the bus.
Played players continually out of position whilst overlooking those who could rightfully play that position.
He is also guilty of letting certain players not put in a shift and keep the shirt.

All of the above are a recipe for a poor season.

Whenever you talk about money or budgets it has to compared in real terms. Dave Smith obviously spent less than PB but he was allowed to sign good players for a decent fee at the time. Otulakowski, Cusack and Spence, who all made the L2 team of the season when we went up as Champions.

PB's maximum wage whilst we were in L2 was £1500 per week. To make a comparison Danny Kedwell at Ebbsfleet was on £2,000 per week last season in the Conference South.

 

[kaymac]

Comparing with a player at Ebbsfleet is ridiculous, they are backed by an owner with rather deep pockets and have always paid big wages.

 

[WESTY_SUFC]

From memory, his first game (or one of the earliest) in central midfield was away at Leyton Orient in the JPT Area Final. He scored the only goal in a 1-0 win. Good times.

Was great night! Look at Orient now. Some of the morbid comments on Shrimperzone look completely over exaggerated when you take how their fans must feel.

 

[NZamba Legend]

But the trouble is that the players hear this and it has a detrimental effect on them - and we really don't need to disincentivise them anymore!

Some of the players probably agree with the fans.

 

[bazzashrimper]

There is never a model that a manager can use to guarantee success. If I remember correctly, when PB arrived there was a stat that said he’s never made a profit on one of his signings (or never more than a token profit). But then he’s not a bad manager.

During his time at Southend, his clear tendency has been to go for either older or established players. There is an appetite for bringing in youth, but it’s like that of a supermodel on a diet.

The balance is all wrong now. Against Shrewsbury for example, we were out run and out fought by a fitter team of younger players. That needs to change.

Maybe when we got that promotion under PB, that balance of youthful energy and established pros nous was just right. We need to get back there.

We await any incoming transfers, but if we are really interested in the millwall oldie then that should really tell Ron all he needs to know. I remember Rons reason (well the one he gave officially) for sacking Paul Brush was that him and Tilly had spent all season bringing in strikers to stop the drop. When Ron asked Brushy what was needed, he responded with “another striker”. Another experienced pro at centre back says PB as Ron gets on the phone to his HR folk...

 

[TrevorFitzpatrickHattrick]

I wouldn't say Brown's a bad manager in the wider scheme of things. He had success with Hull and did a decent enough job getting us out of League 2, before two successive seasons of improvement in League 1. However, there has been a severe degradation this season both in terms of results and performances. Last season we were competitive in pretty much every game we played, whereas this season we've been outclassed in a decent percentage of them.

The thing that was evident last season was how harmonious and united the squad was both on and off the pitch. The same cannot be said this year and I can't help but think that Brown's erratic man-management and volatile media outbursts is at least one of the contributing factors. Opinions of PB are divisive among the fanbase, so imagine what it's like working with him day-to-day.

Ron, for all his faults, seems to have afforded Brown at least a reasonable wage budget and has given him the one thing managers often fail to be given - time. I was honestly disappointed by the summer recruitment overall and was frustrated by how long it took to form the squad. It devalues pre-season and puts us at an automatic disadvantage in the league from the get-go.

Previously, I was pro-PB, but the last few weeks have seen me change my view. I'm bored of the politics, the media mind-games, the dream-job quotes, the radio-commentary gigs, the turgid football, the roulette wheel of excuses, the one-dimensional recruiting, players being played out-of-position and the discernible lack of a Plan B. For that reason, Brown out.

 

[onceknownasrab]

It's beginning to look as though the huge outcry from the fans has been ignored and not even given the respect of a statement. Whatever decision has been made is of interest to us but so far it appears we are so unimportant that we can just jog on. I find this very disappointing. RM has been sold a pup in terms of this squad and how it could meet with his aspiration but if this is how he fails to consider the supporters then I have no sympathy. PB may well be keeping his job, if he is he is, but we deserve better than uncertainty.

 

[Brett Angle]

I think the roots hall faithful have been very patient with Brown and the players this season. A horrible performance and a poor result this coming Saturday may be one too many.

Got a feeling that Brown could be in for some abuse this weekend.

Not sure who you are referring to. I've been a regular supporter for approaching 40 years and have always regards myself as part of the Roots Hall faithful. But he won't be subject to any personal abuse from me and I'm pretty confident I won't be alone. I would have thought we should be all going there with a view to helping the team get a positive result rather than creating even more negativity than we have already.

It it isn't clear if you are one of them (?) but it feels as if there are some 'fans' who will be willing for things to go wrong simply because they just don't like the manager. How does that work? His suitability for the role beyond this season will not depend on Saturday's game alone. Win he will probably still leave in May. Lose though and it is not inconceivable he could still be here. I'd rather focus all our efforts in encouraging our under-performing squad (which is where our problem has largely been) to deliver for a whole 90 mins.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Perhaps Harry Rednapp could share a few extra pearls of wisdom as to why so many other managers have made a career of it despite having had a spell at Southend. He might also tell us why high profile clubs, with the facilities and dosh, have their share of duff gaffers. Southend has as much or as little appeal as most in the bottom two tiers and probably equal to a few in the Championship. We are not a sleeping giant, nor are we a minnow, and many managers would do well to find that out. If the post of manager, for us, became available today, there would be plenty of applicants and probably some surprising ones.

Cut out the middleman and just ask the dog.

It's less likely to perjure itself as well.

 

[marlow17101032]

Not sure who you are referring to. I've been a regular supporter for approaching 40 years and have always regards myself as part of the Roots Hall faithful. But he won't be subject to any personal abuse from me and I'm pretty confident I won't be alone. I would have thought we should be all going there with a view to helping the team get a positive result rather than creating even more negativity than we have already.

It it isn't clear if you are one of them (?) but it feels as if there are some 'fans' who will be willing for things to go wrong simply because they just don't like the manager. How does that work? His suitability for the role beyond this season will not depend on Saturday's game alone. Win he will probably still leave in May. Lose though and it is not inconceivable he could still be here. I'd rather focus all our efforts in encouraging our under-performing squad (which is where our problem has largely been) to deliver for a whole 90 mins.

If we go a goal down it might happen but it will only be a few

 

[Tommy2holes]

Not sure who you are referring to. I've been a regular supporter for approaching 40 years and have always regards myself as part of the Roots Hall faithful. But he won't be subject to any personal abuse from me and I'm pretty confident I won't be alone. I would have thought we should be all going there with a view to helping the team get a positive result rather than creating even more negativity than we have already.

It it isn't clear if you are one of them (?) but it feels as if there are some 'fans' who will be willing for things to go wrong simply because they just don't like the manager. How does that work? His suitability for the role beyond this season will not depend on Saturday's game alone. Win he will probably still leave in May. Lose though and it is not inconceivable he could still be here. I'd rather focus all our efforts in encouraging our under-performing squad (which is where our problem has largely been) to deliver for a whole 90 mins.

I haven't slated Brown all season. Certainly not during games but I have had more than enough of the team putting on a terrible shift devoid of any real passion.

That doesn't mean I won't back the team vocally throughout the game, but Brown and the team will be getting both barrels at the end of the game.

 

[rigsby]

I haven't slated Brown all season. Certainly not during games but I have had more than enough of the team putting on a terrible shift devoid of any real passion.

That doesn't mean I won't back the team vocally throughout the game, but Brown and the team will be getting both barrels at the end of the game.

Will you be like the t*** in the reds who likes to leave early if we win but stays to shout abuse if we don't.

 

[Barry.C]

Some similarities but with different outcomes?

* "Stokes owners were known for their patience and calm headed approach but Hughes was sacked after a poor run of results and humiliating FA Cup exit."
* " Stokes defensive strengths have been reduced to rabble, conceding 47 goals in 22 games." which invariably leads to relegation
* Stoke City have dropped to 18th with just 5 wins in their last 22 games and thats the real concern for Hughes sacking
* "There was a buzz when he was first appointed and talk of taking the club to the next level, which he did initially "
* " BUT Hughes HIT RATE in the transfer market became increasingly suspect and a big factor in his departure "
* " He made 33 signings , many of them ambitious, but only a few were a success "
* " There was in particular dismal failures from the marquee signings , but Hughes put it down to injuries and increasingly blamed officials "
* " This summers big outlay has been another failure "
* " He said he had the experience and personnel to turn the fortunes around "
Unfortunately Stokes owners didnt agree

 

[Tommy2holes]

Will you be like the t*** in the reds who likes to leave early if we win but stays to shout abuse if we don't.

No id be nothing like that. I'm surprised anyone makes any noise at all in the east. It's always like gods waiting room over there.

 

[davewebbsbrain]

Some similarities but with different outcomes?

* "Stokes owners were known for their patience and calm headed approach but Hughes was sacked after a poor run of results and humiliating FA Cup exit."
* " Stokes defensive strengths have been reduced to rabble, conceding 47 goals in 22 games." which invariably leads to relegation
* Stoke City have dropped to 18th with just 5 wins in their last 22 games and thats the real concern for Hughes sacking
* "There was a buzz when he was first appointed and talk of taking the club to the next level, which he did initially "
* " BUT Hughes HIT RATE in the transfer market became increasingly suspect and a big factor in his departure "
* " He made 33 signings , many of them ambitious, but only a few were a success "
* " There was in particular dismal failures from the marquee signings , but Hughes put it down to injuries and increasingly blamed officials "
* " This summers big outlay has been another failure "
* " He said he had the experience and personnel to turn the fortunes around "
Unfortunately Stokes owners didnt agree

Change Stoke to Southend and Hughes to Brown and it's a perfect fit

 

[AndyT]

No id be nothing like that. I'm surprised anyone makes any noise at all in the east. It's always like gods waiting room over there.

.... Nice! :stunned: